Wot Type Break In
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All Forums >> RC Cars, Buggies, Trucks, Tanks and more >> RC Car Engines >> Car Nitro & Gas Engines >> WOT Breakin, step by step. Page: [1] 2 3 4 next > >> 1
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WOT Break in, step by step. 11/18/2008 9:37:30 PM
j_blaze
*** WARNING treat this breakin method the same as all others, if something bad happens, too bad. its not the manuals fault or mine. WARNING ***
Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
i have used this method on 5 motors so far with nothing but perfect results. i tried the other methods with mixed results but this has worked out best for me. every time i do it i am waiting for there to be a problem but motor after motor i see this is the best way to break these motors in. try it if you want, laugh at it if you want, argue how good or bad it is but i am sticking to it 100%. i decided to write this up after another race weekend went by and i have yet to have any motor problems cost me any racing, while others around me were not so lucky. You will need: 1 new motor, or several if you like. 1 full tank of fuel, 125cc or 150cc depending on buggy truggy (not sure on gt tank size but just fill it up) 1 500cc bottle of fuel, 2 bottle fulls if the motor has a ridiculous amount of pinch. 1 glow igniter 1 fully charged receiver pack 1 fully charged tx pack 1 set of ear plugs 1 setup starter box 1 temp gun 1 really hot hair dryer 1. Install new motor into car with clutch set up and set mesh. 2. set car onto starter box with no wheels, just hubs (to avoid fly aways), put on ear plugs. 3. after heating motor with hair dryer to over 200c start motor 4. slowly open carb with trigger at the same time richening (counter clockwise) the hsn to keep wheels from spinning 5. when carb is all the way open, keep richening needle until wheels stop but motor continues to run, very very rich. 6. check temp 7. lean HSN 11.5 full turns to get temperatures to start to go up 8. when the temperature of the motor reaches 180 degrees richen mixture 11.5 turns (equal to the amount you leaned to get temps up) 9. while temperature is dropping, top off tank. check temps until they read 120. after you refuel the rpm's may lower and cut off motor, to avoid this open fuel tank a bit to let it regulate pressure again. 10. repeat step 7 until temperature reaches 190 this time, then go to step 8 and 9. 11. repeat step 7 until temperature reaches 200 this time, then go to step 8 and 9. 12. repeat step 7 until temperature reaches 210 this time, then go to step 8 and 9. 13. repeat step 7 until temperature reaches 220 this time, then go to step 8 and 9. 14. repeat step 79 stopping at 220 degrees until tank and bottle are empty. 15. let go of trigger and massage hand, you've just been holding the car at wot for the last 20 or so minutes, it may be tired. 16. motor is ready to be track tuned, maximum performance is still a gallon away but the initial break in of motor is now complete.
the car never comes off the box, the temp gun never leaves your side, the radio never leaves your hand and in less than 30 minutes your motor is ready to race and will turn over on the starter box. good luck. at the end of the last tank you can lean out the hsn till it runs clear at wot then richen it 1/4 turn and start to tune for track from there. here is a video of the rich cycle of this breakin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAhO3ohjT2Y
< Message edited by j_blaze 12/6/2008 2:24:21 PM >
_____________________________ CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2
Post #: 1
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/18/2008 9:58:14 PM
JB COMP
Very nice. I might try this on my next engine, or one similar to it.
_____________________________ LX Comp: STS21B, JP3, DX3.0 CRT: STS 30 Rev2 or Mach 427, STS 0702, DX3.0 Tmaxx: TRX2.5 Airtronics. BlueBird. (in reply to j_blaze)
Posts: 4362 Joined: 11/23/2006 From: Navarre, FL, USA Status: offline
Post #: 2
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/18/2008 11:18:21 PM
Over_revO
Wonder how much stress that put on a rod... (in reply to JB COMP)
Posts: 283 Joined: 5/4/2008 From: Longueuil, QC, CANADA Status: offline
Post #: 3
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/19/2008 12:12:49 AM
j_blaze
as far as i can tell it puts the perfect amount of stress on it. _____________________________
CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2 (in reply to Over_revO )
Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
Post #: 4
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/19/2008 12:32:52 AM
mabuecker
very nice j blaze! especially since ill be breaking in my rb this weeken. unless i buy more fuel than the 1/2gal i have at the moment(and I dont think ill buy more)
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Posts: 794 Joined: 3/15/2008 From: Van Wert Ohio/Ft.Wayne Indiana, USA Status: offline
~fioroni8b w/rb21/dyn086,053,007/z9100t/z9100s/lipo~ ~ losi8t w/ninja21/jp1,2,3,4/z9100t/z9100s/lipo~dx3r~ (in reply to j_blaze)
Post #: 5
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/19/2008 3:07:44 AM
46u
I will stick with the heat cycle method where you fire it up an run it as I have numerous engines with over 9 gallons on them still running fine. I know some that have done it this way and will not voice my opinion as I am not looking to start a debit. _____________________________
_____________________________ Rebel Racing, Sponsored by, Byron Fuel Looking for a new engine sponsor! (in reply to mabuecker)
Posts: 19095 Joined: 1/13/2005 From: Macon, GA, USA Status: offline
Post #: 6
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/19/2008 11:21:32 PM
j_blaze
i've done this breakin on a power racing 27, 2 sts d21b's, a nova t21bf and an rb s5l2g and all ran excelent. the power racing did get an air leak in the front bearing but it was a $75 on ebay so 3 gallons was a good life for it, i never fixed the bearing so the motor is in a drawer somewhere. the 2 sts's lasted about 5 gallons but the very common sts crank snap got them, still have great pinch and run great with new cranks. the nova was a beast, second best 3 port under $200 money can buy, sold it with my 8.5 a while back. the S5 was also a beast but it took me a while to get the rb tune right, even then it was still ripping and keeping up with or spanking any motor on the track, love those rb's. so from a $75 rtr motor to a sport lever italian rb this break in has worked for me. i got the idea from an article in xrc mag about how adam drake breaks in his motors this was, even the grp's.
Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
_____________________________ CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2 (in reply to 46u)
Post #: 7
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/20/2008 1:50:39 AM
46u
I figured that is where you go the idea. Yes this is how Drake breaks in his engines and being he does not pay for them can afford to put a new engine in every race. If you are happy with this method good and that is all that matters. I have STS engines with 8 plus gallons and the only thing I ever replace was bearings except one of them I replaced the rod as it had a little to much slop for my liking.
_____________________________ Rebel Racing, Sponsored by, Byron Fuel Looking for a new engine sponsor! Posts: 19095 Joined: 1/13/2005 From: Macon, GA, USA Status: offline
(in reply to j_blaze)
Post #: 8
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/20/2008 8:56:40 PM
j_blaze
true, he probably has a drawer full of grp's. we all know no 2 motors are the same, run in 2 brand new c6's with consecutive serial numbers and after their first gallon one will be better than the other. run in 5 and 1 will stick out as the fastest, 1 best on gas, 1 runs hot 1 runs cold and the other is just ok. so for AD to break in a motor for every race he will probably have motors of different characteristics every time. not much winning done that way. i'll bet he has 2 race day motors and 3 or 4 practice motors that can't keep up with the other 2, and he runs those all season, or until the required time for him to send them back to grp for r&d. even though he, and others, are at a level where they can have a "new" $400 motor for every race, even a club race, i still think they still run most motors for 5 or 6 gallons each before they are done with them. myself being a club level driver trying to improve will learn what i can from those who are better than me. if he did not trust this method of breakin he would have never done the article in the first place, and go as far as include his picture setting the needles too. if it fails me i'll be sure to let everyone know.
Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
_____________________________ CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2 (in reply to 46u)
Post #: 9
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 12:21:03 AM
Argess
I sort of think the heatcycle method relies on:
1/ repeated heating and cooling of all engine parts to relieve internal parts stress (probably more benificial to cast parts than machined billet parts) 2/ repeated heating and cooling to mate the piston and sleeve (won't mate as fast if it stays hot by running continuously)
Posts: 561 Joined: 1/12/2006 From: Pleasantville, NS,
3/ general running to breakin bearings and bushings (although I'm not sure if ball bearings actually need much of a breakin)
CANADA Status: offline
This WOT method doesn't seem to address #1 and #2, only #3. However, if an engine survives the WOT method, it's probably fine. Mind you, I suspect that if a person did not perform any breakin at all, but was to be gentle with their new engine for a while, it would eventually breakin successfully anyway. Regardless, I am all for new ideas, but I think I'll let this one slide until it becomes evident that consistently good results are being made by a large number of people. I'm too cheap to risk a new engine these days....LOL. (in reply to j_blaze)
Post #: 10
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 1:10:38 AM
j_blaze
the repeated heating and cooling takes place while the parts are in motion, thats the beauty of it. the p/s mesh together heating and while cooling. temps go from 120220, thats the normal temp range of a motor, that it can run at anyways. i'm not telling everybody to go out and do it, specially not newcomers. but there are people out there who wanted to see how it was done and could not get their hands on the article, so i decided to type it out. i'll have motor #6 in a couple weeks to see how it goes, go 5 port this time.
_____________________________ Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2 (in reply to Argess)
Post #: 11
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 2:49:07 AM
savagecommander
_____________________________
its funny, he said "I am the dread pirate roberts" long live andre the giant
Posts: 597 Joined: 1/3/2006 From: sterling heights, MI, USA Status: offline
(in reply to j_blaze)
Post #: 12
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 1:22:35 PM
Fuelman
quote: Mind you, I suspect that if a person did not perform any break in at all, but was to be gentle with their new engine for a while, it would eventually breakin successfully anyway.
Certified
I could not have said it better myself.
Posts: 1078 Joined: 12/31/2001 From: Jordan, NY, USA Status: offline
The method outlined at this BreakIn Page, has worked perfectly for over 40 years on ABC/ABN/AAC/ABL/AB? engines of all makes and sizes. All I can say is it works. Its the only way I have repeatedly broken in AB? engines that consistently works. I've ruined plenty of engines doing it other ways but always go back to this. I have two rc car engines that I stopped counting gallon caps at 20 gallons each and the only things ever replaced on these engines were the recoils went to tiger drives. They still have some pinch and still run very nice. We run whatever fuel we have laying around from 10% to 40% and all we do is tune accordingly. My boys and wife punish the living snot out of these engines. I have several airplane and one AB? heli engine that have in excess of 50 gallons of fuel through them without ever changing any pistons or sleeves. I have one larger 90 size ABC engine that has over 100 gallons through it, pinch is starting to go now and its losing performance, but thats a lot of run time.
_____________________________ Fuelman Cooper Fuels LLC (in reply to savagecommander)
Post #: 13
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 9:08:08 PM
j_blaze
so you drive the car around a few minutes but you forgot to put on the screw on the throttle servo and the car goes weeaahh down the street, off the curb and upside down, the tires balloon up to 10" and the car screams for a few moments as you are running to it. just as you reach for it the motor stops. done. there is no chance of a runaway breakingin on the box and no chance of over revving on the box either. the wot method is more precise than "running crisp and clean" or "sagging or fading". crisp and clean is different for some people. and what about the clutch? if you
crisp and clean" or "sagging or fading". crisp and clean is different for some people. and what about the clutch? if you have a bad spring it can make the car sag or fade right? so lean it out some and motor go bye bye. the wot is more safe and more accurate than other breakin methods. the only thing that can go wrong with the wot method is ... i can't think of anything. if you are standing next to the car, on the box as its running, what can go wrong that you can't stop instantly? its just way safer this way, quicker and more precise.
Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
_____________________________ CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2 (in reply to Fuelman)
Post #: 14
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 10:48:17 PM
bikeracer
You don't bother with a failsafe spring then to close the throttle in the event of a servo arm breaking or a battery failing ? Wonder how we ever managed to run engines in without a temperature guage ?
.
Posts: 165 Joined: 7/8/2006 From: , UNITED KINGDOM Status: online
< Message edited by bikeracer 11/21/2008 10:51:16 PM > (in reply to j_blaze)
Post #: 15
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 11:41:18 PM
chookman46
I've been using the WOT method of breaking in all my engines for years. Got the idea from Rody on the RB products forum. I do it differently to the method described at the top of the thread. I prefer to drive the car around on the ground while breaking it in, have it running very rich so the clutch is able to engage and the car is moving very slowly at WOT. This wont let it get hot enough so you will have to wrap the head if you want to keep temps up. After the first couple of tanks shut it down and let it cool down and then repeat gradually leaning each tank so you able to heat cycle if that tickles your fancy. The only problem with this method is you have to keep an eye on the fuel level in the tank and never let it run totally dry or you new motor will lean out and do some amazing revs. Also I only do this for about 5 tanks beacause of leaning the car after each tank it gradually get faster after each tank and you need a large area to drive it around running it a WOT by this stage. After the first 5 tanks then take it too the track and continue to run it on the rich side for a few more tanks gradually leaning it getting it close to a race tune.
Posts: 69 Joined: 6/4/2008 From: Queensland, AUSTRALIA Status: offline
(in reply to bikeracer)
Post #: 16
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 11:52:41 PM
savagecommander
so how is this better than manufacturer recommended method? so by this logic, if i break my motor in this way i'll get 100 gallons out of it? i dont think so. wot and richening the needle untill the motor wont pul any more rpm's just doesnt seem right to me. buy a prop that sets your motor at 9500 rpm at wot and heat cycle that way.
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Posts: 597 Joined: 1/3/2006 From: sterling heights, MI, USA Status: offline
its funny, he said "I am the dread pirate roberts" long live andre the giant (in reply to chookman46)
Post #: 17
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 1:41:16 AM
chookman46
Most people dont have an engine stand so it isnt practical for them to run in using a prop. This is the main reason for doing it in the car but the principle is still there when using a prop you still running at WOT with a rich setting to limit rpm. So if you have and engine stand and prop this would be an easier way of running it in but the principle is still the same.
As for reasoning behind it Rody Roem using this method for breaking in all the Rb team engines. If it didnt work they wouldn't use it. I think they have a few championships to their name so his opinions are worth listening too. This is his direct quote when asked about the question.
Posts: 69 Joined: 6/4/2008 From: Queensland, AUSTRALIA Status: offline
"With the engine fullthrottle, you are sure that the idle needle is not in front of the spraybar and so you are running the engine really on the setting of the mainneedle and so are also sure the engine will run rich. Also more fuel/air will go through the engine with full throttle so a better lubrification." (in reply to savagecommander)
Post #: 18
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 2:44:15 AM
j_blaze
my humblest apologies. i did not start this thread to start any arguments about breakin methods, which is better and
which is worse, but i am guilty of the very thing. i just typed it up so other people that wanted to see it would have it, thats all. there's a few things pro's do they tell even fewer people about. rody roem, josh cyrul, adam drake ...
actually a runin stand with a prop would be ideal for this method, starter box is just easier. _____________________________ Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2 (in reply to chookman46)
Post #: 19
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 4:22:21 AM
Fuelman
Some of you car guys crack me up. Everybody's an expert and the only credentials seem to be the ability to win races. OOH, I use the WOT method, I use the heat cycle method, I use the Adam Drake method, bla bla bla, and think I've read of at least 10 variations of the "heat cycle method". You have to run at this temp, that temp is too cool, this guage is better than that guage, bla bla bla...... It is truly comical to troll around here and just read some of the stuff that is written.
Certified
Posts: 1078 Joined: 12/31/2001 From: Jordan, NY, USA Status: offline
Here's one thing that I have learned about the many race winning drivers and their "crews". First, the driver is good at one thing, turning the wheel and squeezing the trigger. The pit guys are good at talking smack with other pit crews and collectively know more about talking smack than engines. For the most part, I have yet to see anybody at high profile races give two hoots about engine longevity and generally could care less if the engine lasts longer than the current race. All the experts at the events I've been to, have been really good at one thing destroying all the free stuff their sponsors give them, with no regard for longevity. .....So, when someone tells me that Expert wining driver XYZ says ......., and thats why I will always do ...... procedure. I have no choice but to laugh, because a well known winning driver can not necessarily tune an engine much less break one in. Any time someone starts talking temps for break in, you're done. Forget the temp, it has no signifigance, There are so many variables that affect engine temps that anybody that even mentions temps in tuning or engine break in is not doing a new person any good. I've seen more new guys ruin more engines because of that damn toy temp gun, trying to chase some magical number that some expert said was supposed to be reached. A good proper ABC type engine break in does not run too lean nor too rich. It involves loading the engine, freewheeling does the engine no appreciable good. Parking the needle at some magical temp displayed on a LED screen is 99% useless. Everything assumes we have some common sense so runaways from servo arms disconnected, bad clutch springs and so on should not be argument pursuaders for or against anything. Guys, stop trying to reinvent the wheel. What is outlined on the breakin link in one of my previous posts is for the most part what the company that invented the ABC metalurgly / technology back in the mid 1960's came up with to achieve maximum power with longevity. Very very little has changed in the metalurgy and fits of the ABC pistons/ sleeves since then.
_____________________________ Fuelman Cooper Fuels LLC (in reply to j_blaze)
Post #: 20
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 5:20:54 AM
TRIPPLE A STRONG
wow i told a guy to buy a real race buggy and i got my posts removed for bashing you must have stripes on rcu but just for the record is ther a method to break in a engine for longer life
(in reply to Fuelman)
Posts: 195 Joined: 10/18/2008 From: , CA, USA Status: offline
Post #: 21
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 6:12:09 AM
Fuelman
the link I was refering to was above, or here: Breakin Certified
Posts: 1078
I am not bashing anything except the extreme mininformation that seems to dominate certain topics. I don't claim to be a know it all, but the things I do know are fuels, oils, and engines. This is how I make my living. If I was not an expert at these things, I would not be able to feed my family. However I never won a big race or had my name in lights as being the champion racer or driver, so I must not have any credibility. The whole thing makes me laugh and I am meerly pointing out the sillyness of it all.
Joined: 12/31/2001 From: Jordan, NY, USA Status: offline
_____________________________ Fuelman Cooper Fuels LLC (in reply to TRIPPLE A STRONG)
Post #: 22
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 6:35:24 AM
chookman46
I dont think J Blaze started this off to convince everryone that this is the best and only way to break in an engine. Just another option that people might like to try. I've broken in lots of engines this way over the last five years or so with total success.
There are some things about his method that I dont like. I think there has to be load on the engine so the breakin should be done while driving it around. Also I dont like the idea relying on a temp gun to set the tune as the readings between differnt temp guns vary drastically.
Posts: 69 Joined: 6/4/2008 From: Queensland, AUSTRALIA Status: offline
I seriously doubt a 1960's airplane engine has the same amount of mechanical pinch as what the current higher end car engines do today(most wont even turn over on a starter bix without preheating first.. After your 10 15 mins of break in they would still have much of their pinch left. If they still have pinch when they are hot then I believe they arent broken in yet. Pinch equals friction, friction equals heat and less power. Most higher end car engines dont loose this until at least 1L some upto 5L, until this happens they still need to be run on the richer side.. (in reply to TRIPPLE A STRONG)
Post #: 23
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 12:33:25 PM
savagecommander quote:
ORIGINAL: Fuelman
Posts: 597 Joined: 1/3/2006 From: sterling heights, MI, USA Status: offline
Some of you car guys crack me up. Everybody's an expert and the only credentials seem to be the ability to win races. OOH, I use the WOT method, I use the heat cycle method, I use the Adam Drake method, bla bla bla, and think I've read of at least 10 variations of the "heat cycle method". You have to run at this temp, that temp is too cool, this guage is better than that guage, bla bla bla...... It is truly comical to troll around here and just read some of the stuff that is written. Here's one thing that I have learned about the many race winning drivers and their "crews". First, the driver is good at one thing, turning the wheel and squeezing the trigger. The pit guys are good at talking smack with other pit crews and collectively know more about talking smack than engines. For the most part, I have yet to see anybody at high profile races give two hoots about engine longevity and generally could care less if the engine lasts longer than the current race. All the experts at the events I've been to, have been really good at one thing destroying all the free stuff their sponsors give them, with no regard for longevity. .....So, when someone tells me that Expert wining driver XYZ says ......., and thats why I will always do ...... procedure. I have no choice but to laugh, because a well known winning driver can not necessarily tune an engine much less break one in. Any time someone starts talking temps for break in, you're done. Forget the temp, it has no signifigance, There are so many variables that affect engine temps that anybody that even mentions temps in tuning or engine break in is not doing a new person any good. I've seen more new guys ruin more engines because of that damn toy temp gun, trying to chase some magical number that some expert said was supposed to be reached. A good proper ABC type engine break in does not run too lean nor too rich. It involves loading the engine, freewheeling does the engine no appreciable good. Parking the needle at some magical temp displayed on a LED screen is 99% useless. Everything assumes we have some common sense so runaways from servo arms disconnected, bad clutch springs and so on should not be argument pursuaders for or against anything. Guys, stop trying to reinvent the wheel. What is outlined on the breakin link in one of my previous posts is for the most part what the company that invented the ABC metalurgly / technology back in the mid 1960's came up with to achieve maximum power with longevity. Very very little has changed in the metalurgy and fits of the ABC pistons/ sleeves since then.
WOW this is hilarious! the first part is hitting the nail right on the head! kudos to you sir! _____________________________ its funny, he said "I am the dread pirate roberts" long live andre the giant (in reply to Fuelman)
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 1:49:43 PM
j_blaze
bump
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CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2 (in reply to savagecommander)
Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
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WOT Break in, step by step. 11/18/2008 9:37:30 PM
j_blaze
*** WARNING treat this breakin method the same as all others, if something bad happens, too bad. its not the manuals fault or mine. WARNING ***
Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
i have used this method on 5 motors so far with nothing but perfect results. i tried the other methods with mixed results but this has worked out best for me. every time i do it i am waiting for there to be a problem but motor after motor i see this is the best way to break these motors in. try it if you want, laugh at it if you want, argue how good or bad it is but i am sticking to it 100%. i decided to write this up after another race weekend went by and i have yet to have any motor problems cost me any racing, while others around me were not so lucky. You will need: 1 new motor, or several if you like. 1 full tank of fuel, 125cc or 150cc depending on buggy truggy (not sure on gt tank size but just fill it up) 1 500cc bottle of fuel, 2 bottle fulls if the motor has a ridiculous amount of pinch. 1 glow igniter 1 fully charged receiver pack 1 fully charged tx pack 1 set of ear plugs 1 setup starter box 1 temp gun 1 really hot hair dryer 1. Install new motor into car with clutch set up and set mesh. 2. set car onto starter box with no wheels, just hubs (to avoid fly aways), put on ear plugs. 3. after heating motor with hair dryer to over 200c start motor 4. slowly open carb with trigger at the same time richening (counter clockwise) the hsn to keep wheels from spinning 5. when carb is all the way open, keep richening needle until wheels stop but motor continues to run, very very rich. 6. check temp 7. lean HSN 11.5 full turns to get temperatures to start to go up 8. when the temperature of the motor reaches 180 degrees richen mixture 11.5 turns (equal to the amount you leaned to get temps up) 9. while temperature is dropping, top off tank. check temps until they read 120. after you refuel the rpm's may lower and cut off motor, to avoid this open fuel tank a bit to let it regulate pressure again. 10. repeat step 7 until temperature reaches 190 this time, then go to step 8 and 9. 11. repeat step 7 until temperature reaches 200 this time, then go to step 8 and 9. 12. repeat step 7 until temperature reaches 210 this time, then go to step 8 and 9. 13. repeat step 7 until temperature reaches 220 this time, then go to step 8 and 9. 14. repeat step 79 stopping at 220 degrees until tank and bottle are empty. 15. let go of trigger and massage hand, you've just been holding the car at wot for the last 20 or so minutes, it may be tired. 16. motor is ready to be track tuned, maximum performance is still a gallon away but the initial break in of motor is now complete.
the car never comes off the box, the temp gun never leaves your side, the radio never leaves your hand and in less than 30 minutes your motor is ready to race and will turn over on the starter box. good luck. at the end of the last tank you can lean out the hsn till it runs clear at wot then richen it 1/4 turn and start to tune for track from there. here is a video of the rich cycle of this breakin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAhO3ohjT2Y
< Message edited by j_blaze 12/6/2008 2:24:21 PM >
_____________________________ CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2
Post #: 1
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/18/2008 9:58:14 PM
JB COMP
Very nice. I might try this on my next engine, or one similar to it.
_____________________________ LX Comp: STS21B, JP3, DX3.0 CRT: STS 30 Rev2 or Mach 427, STS 0702, DX3.0 Tmaxx: TRX2.5 Airtronics. BlueBird. (in reply to j_blaze)
Posts: 4362 Joined: 11/23/2006 From: Navarre, FL, USA Status: offline
Post #: 2
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/18/2008 11:18:21 PM
Over_revO
Wonder how much stress that put on a rod... (in reply to JB COMP)
Posts: 283 Joined: 5/4/2008 From: Longueuil, QC, CANADA Status: offline
Post #: 3
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/19/2008 12:12:49 AM
j_blaze
as far as i can tell it puts the perfect amount of stress on it. _____________________________
CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2 (in reply to Over_revO )
Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
Post #: 4
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/19/2008 12:32:52 AM
mabuecker
very nice j blaze! especially since ill be breaking in my rb this weeken. unless i buy more fuel than the 1/2gal i have at the moment(and I dont think ill buy more)
_____________________________
Posts: 794 Joined: 3/15/2008 From: Van Wert Ohio/Ft.Wayne Indiana, USA Status: offline
~fioroni8b w/rb21/dyn086,053,007/z9100t/z9100s/lipo~ ~ losi8t w/ninja21/jp1,2,3,4/z9100t/z9100s/lipo~dx3r~ (in reply to j_blaze)
Post #: 5
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/19/2008 3:07:44 AM
46u
I will stick with the heat cycle method where you fire it up an run it as I have numerous engines with over 9 gallons on them still running fine. I know some that have done it this way and will not voice my opinion as I am not looking to start a debit. _____________________________
_____________________________ Rebel Racing, Sponsored by, Byron Fuel Looking for a new engine sponsor! (in reply to mabuecker)
Posts: 19095 Joined: 1/13/2005 From: Macon, GA, USA Status: offline
Post #: 6
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/19/2008 11:21:32 PM
j_blaze
i've done this breakin on a power racing 27, 2 sts d21b's, a nova t21bf and an rb s5l2g and all ran excelent. the power racing did get an air leak in the front bearing but it was a $75 on ebay so 3 gallons was a good life for it, i never fixed the bearing so the motor is in a drawer somewhere. the 2 sts's lasted about 5 gallons but the very common sts crank snap got them, still have great pinch and run great with new cranks. the nova was a beast, second best 3 port under $200 money can buy, sold it with my 8.5 a while back. the S5 was also a beast but it took me a while to get the rb tune right, even then it was still ripping and keeping up with or spanking any motor on the track, love those rb's. so from a $75 rtr motor to a sport lever italian rb this break in has worked for me. i got the idea from an article in xrc mag about how adam drake breaks in his motors this was, even the grp's.
Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
_____________________________ CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2 (in reply to 46u)
Post #: 7
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/20/2008 1:50:39 AM
46u
I figured that is where you go the idea. Yes this is how Drake breaks in his engines and being he does not pay for them can afford to put a new engine in every race. If you are happy with this method good and that is all that matters. I have STS engines with 8 plus gallons and the only thing I ever replace was bearings except one of them I replaced the rod as it had a little to much slop for my liking.
_____________________________ Rebel Racing, Sponsored by, Byron Fuel Looking for a new engine sponsor! Posts: 19095 Joined: 1/13/2005 From: Macon, GA, USA Status: offline
(in reply to j_blaze)
Post #: 8
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/20/2008 8:56:40 PM
j_blaze
true, he probably has a drawer full of grp's. we all know no 2 motors are the same, run in 2 brand new c6's with consecutive serial numbers and after their first gallon one will be better than the other. run in 5 and 1 will stick out as the fastest, 1 best on gas, 1 runs hot 1 runs cold and the other is just ok. so for AD to break in a motor for every race he will probably have motors of different characteristics every time. not much winning done that way. i'll bet he has 2 race day motors and 3 or 4 practice motors that can't keep up with the other 2, and he runs those all season, or until the required time for him to send them back to grp for r&d. even though he, and others, are at a level where they can have a "new" $400 motor for every race, even a club race, i still think they still run most motors for 5 or 6 gallons each before they are done with them. myself being a club level driver trying to improve will learn what i can from those who are better than me. if he did not trust this method of breakin he would have never done the article in the first place, and go as far as include his picture setting the needles too. if it fails me i'll be sure to let everyone know.
Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
_____________________________ CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2 (in reply to 46u)
Post #: 9
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 12:21:03 AM
Argess
I sort of think the heatcycle method relies on:
1/ repeated heating and cooling of all engine parts to relieve internal parts stress (probably more benificial to cast parts than machined billet parts) 2/ repeated heating and cooling to mate the piston and sleeve (won't mate as fast if it stays hot by running continuously)
Posts: 561 Joined: 1/12/2006 From: Pleasantville, NS,
3/ general running to breakin bearings and bushings (although I'm not sure if ball bearings actually need much of a breakin)
CANADA Status: offline
This WOT method doesn't seem to address #1 and #2, only #3. However, if an engine survives the WOT method, it's probably fine. Mind you, I suspect that if a person did not perform any breakin at all, but was to be gentle with their new engine for a while, it would eventually breakin successfully anyway. Regardless, I am all for new ideas, but I think I'll let this one slide until it becomes evident that consistently good results are being made by a large number of people. I'm too cheap to risk a new engine these days....LOL. (in reply to j_blaze)
Post #: 10
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 1:10:38 AM
j_blaze
the repeated heating and cooling takes place while the parts are in motion, thats the beauty of it. the p/s mesh together heating and while cooling. temps go from 120220, thats the normal temp range of a motor, that it can run at anyways. i'm not telling everybody to go out and do it, specially not newcomers. but there are people out there who wanted to see how it was done and could not get their hands on the article, so i decided to type it out. i'll have motor #6 in a couple weeks to see how it goes, go 5 port this time.
_____________________________ Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2 (in reply to Argess)
Post #: 11
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 2:49:07 AM
savagecommander
_____________________________
its funny, he said "I am the dread pirate roberts" long live andre the giant
Posts: 597 Joined: 1/3/2006 From: sterling heights, MI, USA Status: offline
(in reply to j_blaze)
Post #: 12
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 1:22:35 PM
Fuelman
quote: Mind you, I suspect that if a person did not perform any break in at all, but was to be gentle with their new engine for a while, it would eventually breakin successfully anyway.
Certified
I could not have said it better myself.
Posts: 1078 Joined: 12/31/2001 From: Jordan, NY, USA Status: offline
The method outlined at this BreakIn Page, has worked perfectly for over 40 years on ABC/ABN/AAC/ABL/AB? engines of all makes and sizes. All I can say is it works. Its the only way I have repeatedly broken in AB? engines that consistently works. I've ruined plenty of engines doing it other ways but always go back to this. I have two rc car engines that I stopped counting gallon caps at 20 gallons each and the only things ever replaced on these engines were the recoils went to tiger drives. They still have some pinch and still run very nice. We run whatever fuel we have laying around from 10% to 40% and all we do is tune accordingly. My boys and wife punish the living snot out of these engines. I have several airplane and one AB? heli engine that have in excess of 50 gallons of fuel through them without ever changing any pistons or sleeves. I have one larger 90 size ABC engine that has over 100 gallons through it, pinch is starting to go now and its losing performance, but thats a lot of run time.
_____________________________ Fuelman Cooper Fuels LLC (in reply to savagecommander)
Post #: 13
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 9:08:08 PM
j_blaze
so you drive the car around a few minutes but you forgot to put on the screw on the throttle servo and the car goes weeaahh down the street, off the curb and upside down, the tires balloon up to 10" and the car screams for a few moments as you are running to it. just as you reach for it the motor stops. done. there is no chance of a runaway breakingin on the box and no chance of over revving on the box either. the wot method is more precise than "running crisp and clean" or "sagging or fading". crisp and clean is different for some people. and what about the clutch? if you
crisp and clean" or "sagging or fading". crisp and clean is different for some people. and what about the clutch? if you have a bad spring it can make the car sag or fade right? so lean it out some and motor go bye bye. the wot is more safe and more accurate than other breakin methods. the only thing that can go wrong with the wot method is ... i can't think of anything. if you are standing next to the car, on the box as its running, what can go wrong that you can't stop instantly? its just way safer this way, quicker and more precise.
Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
_____________________________ CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2 (in reply to Fuelman)
Post #: 14
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 10:48:17 PM
bikeracer
You don't bother with a failsafe spring then to close the throttle in the event of a servo arm breaking or a battery failing ? Wonder how we ever managed to run engines in without a temperature guage ?
.
Posts: 165 Joined: 7/8/2006 From: , UNITED KINGDOM Status: online
< Message edited by bikeracer 11/21/2008 10:51:16 PM > (in reply to j_blaze)
Post #: 15
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 11:41:18 PM
chookman46
I've been using the WOT method of breaking in all my engines for years. Got the idea from Rody on the RB products forum. I do it differently to the method described at the top of the thread. I prefer to drive the car around on the ground while breaking it in, have it running very rich so the clutch is able to engage and the car is moving very slowly at WOT. This wont let it get hot enough so you will have to wrap the head if you want to keep temps up. After the first couple of tanks shut it down and let it cool down and then repeat gradually leaning each tank so you able to heat cycle if that tickles your fancy. The only problem with this method is you have to keep an eye on the fuel level in the tank and never let it run totally dry or you new motor will lean out and do some amazing revs. Also I only do this for about 5 tanks beacause of leaning the car after each tank it gradually get faster after each tank and you need a large area to drive it around running it a WOT by this stage. After the first 5 tanks then take it too the track and continue to run it on the rich side for a few more tanks gradually leaning it getting it close to a race tune.
Posts: 69 Joined: 6/4/2008 From: Queensland, AUSTRALIA Status: offline
(in reply to bikeracer)
Post #: 16
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/21/2008 11:52:41 PM
savagecommander
so how is this better than manufacturer recommended method? so by this logic, if i break my motor in this way i'll get 100 gallons out of it? i dont think so. wot and richening the needle untill the motor wont pul any more rpm's just doesnt seem right to me. buy a prop that sets your motor at 9500 rpm at wot and heat cycle that way.
_____________________________
Posts: 597 Joined: 1/3/2006 From: sterling heights, MI, USA Status: offline
its funny, he said "I am the dread pirate roberts" long live andre the giant (in reply to chookman46)
Post #: 17
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 1:41:16 AM
chookman46
Most people dont have an engine stand so it isnt practical for them to run in using a prop. This is the main reason for doing it in the car but the principle is still there when using a prop you still running at WOT with a rich setting to limit rpm. So if you have and engine stand and prop this would be an easier way of running it in but the principle is still the same.
As for reasoning behind it Rody Roem using this method for breaking in all the Rb team engines. If it didnt work they wouldn't use it. I think they have a few championships to their name so his opinions are worth listening too. This is his direct quote when asked about the question.
Posts: 69 Joined: 6/4/2008 From: Queensland, AUSTRALIA Status: offline
"With the engine fullthrottle, you are sure that the idle needle is not in front of the spraybar and so you are running the engine really on the setting of the mainneedle and so are also sure the engine will run rich. Also more fuel/air will go through the engine with full throttle so a better lubrification." (in reply to savagecommander)
Post #: 18
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 2:44:15 AM
j_blaze
my humblest apologies. i did not start this thread to start any arguments about breakin methods, which is better and
which is worse, but i am guilty of the very thing. i just typed it up so other people that wanted to see it would have it, thats all. there's a few things pro's do they tell even fewer people about. rody roem, josh cyrul, adam drake ...
actually a runin stand with a prop would be ideal for this method, starter box is just easier. _____________________________ Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2 (in reply to chookman46)
Post #: 19
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 4:22:21 AM
Fuelman
Some of you car guys crack me up. Everybody's an expert and the only credentials seem to be the ability to win races. OOH, I use the WOT method, I use the heat cycle method, I use the Adam Drake method, bla bla bla, and think I've read of at least 10 variations of the "heat cycle method". You have to run at this temp, that temp is too cool, this guage is better than that guage, bla bla bla...... It is truly comical to troll around here and just read some of the stuff that is written.
Certified
Posts: 1078 Joined: 12/31/2001 From: Jordan, NY, USA Status: offline
Here's one thing that I have learned about the many race winning drivers and their "crews". First, the driver is good at one thing, turning the wheel and squeezing the trigger. The pit guys are good at talking smack with other pit crews and collectively know more about talking smack than engines. For the most part, I have yet to see anybody at high profile races give two hoots about engine longevity and generally could care less if the engine lasts longer than the current race. All the experts at the events I've been to, have been really good at one thing destroying all the free stuff their sponsors give them, with no regard for longevity. .....So, when someone tells me that Expert wining driver XYZ says ......., and thats why I will always do ...... procedure. I have no choice but to laugh, because a well known winning driver can not necessarily tune an engine much less break one in. Any time someone starts talking temps for break in, you're done. Forget the temp, it has no signifigance, There are so many variables that affect engine temps that anybody that even mentions temps in tuning or engine break in is not doing a new person any good. I've seen more new guys ruin more engines because of that damn toy temp gun, trying to chase some magical number that some expert said was supposed to be reached. A good proper ABC type engine break in does not run too lean nor too rich. It involves loading the engine, freewheeling does the engine no appreciable good. Parking the needle at some magical temp displayed on a LED screen is 99% useless. Everything assumes we have some common sense so runaways from servo arms disconnected, bad clutch springs and so on should not be argument pursuaders for or against anything. Guys, stop trying to reinvent the wheel. What is outlined on the breakin link in one of my previous posts is for the most part what the company that invented the ABC metalurgly / technology back in the mid 1960's came up with to achieve maximum power with longevity. Very very little has changed in the metalurgy and fits of the ABC pistons/ sleeves since then.
_____________________________ Fuelman Cooper Fuels LLC (in reply to j_blaze)
Post #: 20
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 5:20:54 AM
TRIPPLE A STRONG
wow i told a guy to buy a real race buggy and i got my posts removed for bashing you must have stripes on rcu but just for the record is ther a method to break in a engine for longer life
(in reply to Fuelman)
Posts: 195 Joined: 10/18/2008 From: , CA, USA Status: offline
Post #: 21
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 6:12:09 AM
Fuelman
the link I was refering to was above, or here: Breakin Certified
Posts: 1078
I am not bashing anything except the extreme mininformation that seems to dominate certain topics. I don't claim to be a know it all, but the things I do know are fuels, oils, and engines. This is how I make my living. If I was not an expert at these things, I would not be able to feed my family. However I never won a big race or had my name in lights as being the champion racer or driver, so I must not have any credibility. The whole thing makes me laugh and I am meerly pointing out the sillyness of it all.
Joined: 12/31/2001 From: Jordan, NY, USA Status: offline
_____________________________ Fuelman Cooper Fuels LLC (in reply to TRIPPLE A STRONG)
Post #: 22
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 6:35:24 AM
chookman46
I dont think J Blaze started this off to convince everryone that this is the best and only way to break in an engine. Just another option that people might like to try. I've broken in lots of engines this way over the last five years or so with total success.
There are some things about his method that I dont like. I think there has to be load on the engine so the breakin should be done while driving it around. Also I dont like the idea relying on a temp gun to set the tune as the readings between differnt temp guns vary drastically.
Posts: 69 Joined: 6/4/2008 From: Queensland, AUSTRALIA Status: offline
I seriously doubt a 1960's airplane engine has the same amount of mechanical pinch as what the current higher end car engines do today(most wont even turn over on a starter bix without preheating first.. After your 10 15 mins of break in they would still have much of their pinch left. If they still have pinch when they are hot then I believe they arent broken in yet. Pinch equals friction, friction equals heat and less power. Most higher end car engines dont loose this until at least 1L some upto 5L, until this happens they still need to be run on the richer side.. (in reply to TRIPPLE A STRONG)
Post #: 23
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 12:33:25 PM
savagecommander quote:
ORIGINAL: Fuelman
Posts: 597 Joined: 1/3/2006 From: sterling heights, MI, USA Status: offline
Some of you car guys crack me up. Everybody's an expert and the only credentials seem to be the ability to win races. OOH, I use the WOT method, I use the heat cycle method, I use the Adam Drake method, bla bla bla, and think I've read of at least 10 variations of the "heat cycle method". You have to run at this temp, that temp is too cool, this guage is better than that guage, bla bla bla...... It is truly comical to troll around here and just read some of the stuff that is written. Here's one thing that I have learned about the many race winning drivers and their "crews". First, the driver is good at one thing, turning the wheel and squeezing the trigger. The pit guys are good at talking smack with other pit crews and collectively know more about talking smack than engines. For the most part, I have yet to see anybody at high profile races give two hoots about engine longevity and generally could care less if the engine lasts longer than the current race. All the experts at the events I've been to, have been really good at one thing destroying all the free stuff their sponsors give them, with no regard for longevity. .....So, when someone tells me that Expert wining driver XYZ says ......., and thats why I will always do ...... procedure. I have no choice but to laugh, because a well known winning driver can not necessarily tune an engine much less break one in. Any time someone starts talking temps for break in, you're done. Forget the temp, it has no signifigance, There are so many variables that affect engine temps that anybody that even mentions temps in tuning or engine break in is not doing a new person any good. I've seen more new guys ruin more engines because of that damn toy temp gun, trying to chase some magical number that some expert said was supposed to be reached. A good proper ABC type engine break in does not run too lean nor too rich. It involves loading the engine, freewheeling does the engine no appreciable good. Parking the needle at some magical temp displayed on a LED screen is 99% useless. Everything assumes we have some common sense so runaways from servo arms disconnected, bad clutch springs and so on should not be argument pursuaders for or against anything. Guys, stop trying to reinvent the wheel. What is outlined on the breakin link in one of my previous posts is for the most part what the company that invented the ABC metalurgly / technology back in the mid 1960's came up with to achieve maximum power with longevity. Very very little has changed in the metalurgy and fits of the ABC pistons/ sleeves since then.
WOW this is hilarious! the first part is hitting the nail right on the head! kudos to you sir! _____________________________ its funny, he said "I am the dread pirate roberts" long live andre the giant (in reply to Fuelman)
RE: WOT Break in, step by step. 11/22/2008 1:49:43 PM
j_blaze
bump
_____________________________
Post #: 24
CASTER K8T Pro Caster MKII 215t, JR, DX3R Caster Zx1R Caster MKII 215t, Bron''''s GEN2 (in reply to savagecommander)
Posts: 1707 Joined: 1/4/2007 From: Tampa, FL, USA Status: offline
Post #: 25
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