Mfr Nara- T1a- Fbi- Fbi Special Agent 25- 11-6-03- 00352
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M FI
•
L(
q5
MEMORANDUMFO~THERECORD
I
...
Event: Interview ofFBl Special Agent ... Type of event: Interview
All ~
Dates: November 6,2003
OM.
INFORMATION CONTA,~~
HER~/rD~~'~j, ~
I
.
'irH:J
A
f).
?-.
Special Access Issues: None
Team Number:
Law Enforcement
Privacy
",<,<~,
1A
FBI, Newark Field 'Office"
Location:
•
...::.y;/9/11
by: Michael Jacobson
Prepared
':':,<>:~,::,/
Participants
- Non-COmmi$sioD:':Assis~nt
Participants
- Commissi~n:)6hn'Ta:mm,
General Counsel Bob Sinton Dieter Snell, Michael Jacobson
, ''''''as th,~:~as7:~~e~t on the investigation of th~,.....----:-...,._ ....._ ..... backgroundf ~tat~~l't~,at there are 4 members of the e.xtende [ami! who have come across his radar. They are: , ~re brothers, and are cousins 0 The primary person of in:t"er-e-st'" .....a-s .....e-en .... -.....---/ .... ~'e was the case agent! on this investigation, untiJ,Owas picked up on a materia :'wltn~ss warrant. At that point, the investigation was/transferred to NY (presumably t~e'PE,NTrBOM team). : ! / / ,',/ ... /. ,"
does, ?ot
think
I~~es,~ot believe tha~
"Hs
"inYolvid" with the hjiack~[jj
that h~ ,~a~any c'~nnection to them.: He, ~nJi¥e the/other :~
question, was never
I
l,n Germany',
\
leXPlaine~ howhe came across
j
i
th~'
j
/II,]~
~n
........ : .... .
linthe~rst
place. He
was aSSIgned to cover Hani Hanjour's activities duririg.histime' in th¢ Newark area. He found a lead in the case that hadn't been covered; tr~e!le~d stated ¢'~tthe hijackers has been seen at a Golds Gym and a'~a gas station in ~~e N:ew/Jer~ey ale,a. The Golds Gym lead had been corroborated, but noone ..went out to ~hkjgas st~tion·/'..I1e went and interviewed one of the owners of the station. He gpt! t~e ;rtarPe ~~'~/theother owner as well, which turned out to bel· I:. ~~ ;ih~n ~ou1J,~/thatthe number for the Exxon station and I 160me n~ttP~~r ~a~ibe,¢~ found in a search I ~ment in Germany. On th~ p~ece of\P~~~r I ny·xt.-::i:¢ the~ers wasthe name ,During subsequent inves.!ig:~tion, fotP19 ~:B-t tha~L-...Jh~,d"his cousins living with him 'in.New Jersey. He interV:.~e~edl IW,~6 talked about.his cousins, and mentioned that theyhad been in Germany. \\: ii f !.::(/, ,',"" "
~fCJ
'b,~ ..
•
n¢
················\"\~:\Iuy// 9/11 Personal
~
Privacy
•.
.".-;{!i~~11 Personal
9/11 . Law E~rcement •
SenSl tl ve
,,X r-.\\
Pri vacy
.,."'-:"'''''.',
lalso found out thatl./:ll!~n~~*~ overstays in the U.S. INS went ahead an arreste4 l:TheY,v,;¥r¢c'taK#i\tci:lIdetention facility, and '\"" :~
,
I
\;bmth¢~
toen£ fiJi sHirt ~p~~ research
~econtacted Berlin, and as~ed
I
:
J ~n~(BJ'SSUb'""."
,/J:'i
~as in tOUCh¥lit~u
on these two
iff,
/tt~{I~:~]~e;x j:fi~~~~E:1 t~I,when
'
;/ .'
, he niov~C~~~!~i~~rnia.
::
:
: .'
.:
.'
"
.'~:
::
',',
~
','.','"
'.
'.
originally requested th~t ne e a ,qw,e'd Jb gp')n~e'rYie' \\ ':, "'::mself,'''t;mtwas told no due to financial considerations. LI\'-\,y'e~t ~hea¢/~n4 !irl~~rvieYv~q \~\\ and-he denied
e~~ytJ)ing. They di9tC?py .hi~phpn~;bOO,~!('ier~sti:g~, h,e ~d:~ email address ~f 111 ht33 hotmal!. O,tn In hIS' address book/ !i !! i ',ari\thls~\and found out that It was io.-_ ..... 'c,¢ount.f ,/ ¥vas:~9'bt :~~rP~m er'\of\~he Q~~A.ranygroup, and was ...oIII!'--I~~
associated with Ziad Jarrah. //
/
I II
i /,'/
"ii!
\
":\
\\ \\..
....
·'I~s.6s~~t~at tht~re ofueJ Interesting "eonn~~Qns. During a s~arYhf'of Motassadeq 's apartnrent, tJfe,y:ifo~rp a/i¥ece of paper, wit'f\ a,~,address 'i.~ German and' .:" written' orj!i~. They ran::iheaddres.s and it came back :t ' who ,are!also cousihS df the dthe' " , He/vias able to confirm through
cousins.
I
:
,/,/
::
:,'
,!
il
,f
::
.-
,/
i! hat
'
Another strfngetOl)nectio';
. ,/
is that
S oflthe
...........
-
"\.\,
....... -~-.-
.\, ,were their\,\""",
....
~/had/th~/ilumbef for an:iipdi~i;~uaL:l-n-a-m-e~di-~\ ,:--~\i!!-,~""'---r-' f p10ne ~u~ber was in/cop:tact wi~hl i lllu~~foUS times prior\tp 9/11. \" and !I ~~mber in their cell phones. Ih~:s sent a\~equest to ! Germany to have him.interviewed, but he do~s~:'i think that this has happened,
Ih~dl
A
.
/ j I /A number of the leads-that he sent ~dUJrmany have not been completed by the ! !Germans. J'h some cases, they couldnltfind t~~people, or the interviews w~:~ld have
i ! !interfered
,:with their prosecutions.
j/
!!
i
\. \
0\1'
\, \.
•
.'i' // As a side note, all ~fth~ /~ n(With the exception has ties to . , " the Al-Noot-rnosque. He ~ssymed trat the f\'1qsque was in hamburg, but he's ~bt sure. i'· After learning ofs6me of these additional connections \ as~~anted approval to travel to ~A,/t6 intervi~wDhi~selJ.. IS n9t sure wher~ .. _.-.... : :u .was living in LA. lhis/timeDconceded thathe recogmze a picture of'binalshib, He ! !!/ :/ said .rhough thathe only knew him from the'mosque (al-Qods and one other mosque in ,flapl burg). l;{e'had also foundoutthaj l.vorked at Hay Computers in Hambu~g at i /// ,"":/t~e same time as binaishib an~t.two of the other hijackers' associates. Ddenied\" ... th...a.... t _ !!!! / " he worked there. At,/thi~.poi:6tJ lasked for a material witness warrant fori.. _---I !IF i, :/He gotit, and~~ftr(fnsferred from INS custody (where he was at the time) to the " Southern Districrb1New York. /
! i!i ,...:'
"
i.l;:>··/.······»
0'
.r
"
••••
N?:""""""':'"
9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
" .. y /
"9/11 Law Enforcement
•
L.-~' .',.
Y'
.
Privacy
Afte~as
picked u: ;~~~Mii:t"':'itw~~l1t,tl1e
FBI interviewed him again' .
In a proffer sesslOILI Iwas 10 on the interview, as was] I from PENITBOM. This time he admitted knowing "of' binalshib, and working at Hays
Computer, but that was it. A jtl!e thr let him out, and he voluntarily departed to Jordan on September 3\ 2003. was deported for Jordan, though he has since come '" back to Canada, and] (departed the US as well. He's not sure whether they are on ...... the Watchlist or not, but 'l)oted that they were deported, and that accordingly they should .not be able to return to the...U.S,:· ~
I;
". ~as "de finite involved."! land his cousins all said that he left New Jersey for California in July ~OOl:- There are no phone links betweenc:::Jind the hijackers. There.is a witness who.says that he saw the hiiackers at a gas station in Little Falls.New Jersey'. This is the same gas s1:ation'\tha rained at./ The owner of this station ..... was also the-owner of the si~tion wper an the othe~ . lended up workinf" (the staton owned b . The co-owner/Of both stations is named"" . .who was Jewish 'and convertedito I~lami had "problems" in . the past, and wouldn't necessarily be the most reliable witness .. /!
D~,~s
1\'
•
at the station With the! iii :1' Th~ \finally admitted that '~hey k~ewf ,.but. si!id tl\at they ididij't associate with hin:" With regard td '" I~~ tlh~s t~at. ~!ougptL to the gas station for possible employment ·.6~"ori·e ..occ~sid~. \T~eY\Ahor.re~ IPhotograph to the people at the station, but-they-said ...that, th~y' didn't re90gniz~Jlim': kls~~or~e~
Gb~~/GY£
The witness.who s:J{4~hij~<;kersi\ the al;o said that he saw them at the gas station and a BostonMarket.. A~'4\sd,4s~~4!~~O\f¥, ~e witness's story was corroborated for the GoldGym, 'tQe"'ga'~ '~i~ffp~i)~ #eaf/b9th the gym and the Boston
a\
market.
anq
\\
.i:\\:\:\
l/'
\~iii! I, ii Isaf2L~~'~'~,·"~'~.,,~~~i#qff'un across
As a final matter~1 connections in his investigatIOns of the hija~~;~~~.;'he'ir
any Saudi associates.
9/11 Personal
•
Privacy
•
L(
q5
MEMORANDUMFO~THERECORD
I
...
Event: Interview ofFBl Special Agent ... Type of event: Interview
All ~
Dates: November 6,2003
OM.
INFORMATION CONTA,~~
HER~/rD~~'~j, ~
I
.
'irH:J
A
f).
?-.
Special Access Issues: None
Team Number:
Law Enforcement
Privacy
",<,<~,
1A
FBI, Newark Field 'Office"
Location:
•
...::.y;/9/11
by: Michael Jacobson
Prepared
':':,<>:~,::,/
Participants
- Non-COmmi$sioD:':Assis~nt
Participants
- Commissi~n:)6hn'Ta:mm,
General Counsel Bob Sinton Dieter Snell, Michael Jacobson
, ''''''as th,~:~as7:~~e~t on the investigation of th~,.....----:-...,._ ....._ ..... backgroundf ~tat~~l't~,at there are 4 members of the e.xtende [ami! who have come across his radar. They are: , ~re brothers, and are cousins 0 The primary person of in:t"er-e-st'" .....a-s .....e-en .... -.....---/ .... ~'e was the case agent! on this investigation, untiJ,Owas picked up on a materia :'wltn~ss warrant. At that point, the investigation was/transferred to NY (presumably t~e'PE,NTrBOM team). : ! / / ,',/ ... /. ,"
does, ?ot
think
I~~es,~ot believe tha~
"Hs
"inYolvid" with the hjiack~[jj
that h~ ,~a~any c'~nnection to them.: He, ~nJi¥e the/other :~
question, was never
I
l,n Germany',
\
leXPlaine~ howhe came across
j
i
th~'
j
/II,]~
~n
........ : .... .
linthe~rst
place. He
was aSSIgned to cover Hani Hanjour's activities duririg.histime' in th¢ Newark area. He found a lead in the case that hadn't been covered; tr~e!le~d stated ¢'~tthe hijackers has been seen at a Golds Gym and a'~a gas station in ~~e N:ew/Jer~ey ale,a. The Golds Gym lead had been corroborated, but noone ..went out to ~hkjgas st~tion·/'..I1e went and interviewed one of the owners of the station. He gpt! t~e ;rtarPe ~~'~/theother owner as well, which turned out to bel· I:. ~~ ;ih~n ~ou1J,~/thatthe number for the Exxon station and I 160me n~ttP~~r ~a~ibe,¢~ found in a search I ~ment in Germany. On th~ p~ece of\P~~~r I ny·xt.-::i:¢ the~ers wasthe name ,During subsequent inves.!ig:~tion, fotP19 ~:B-t tha~L-...Jh~,d"his cousins living with him 'in.New Jersey. He interV:.~e~edl IW,~6 talked about.his cousins, and mentioned that theyhad been in Germany. \\: ii f !.::(/, ,',"" "
~fCJ
'b,~ ..
•
n¢
················\"\~:\Iuy// 9/11 Personal
~
Privacy
•.
.".-;{!i~~11 Personal
9/11 . Law E~rcement •
SenSl tl ve
,,X r-.\\
Pri vacy
.,."'-:"'''''.',
lalso found out thatl./:ll!~n~~*~ overstays in the U.S. INS went ahead an arreste4 l:TheY,v,;¥r¢c'taK#i\tci:lIdetention facility, and '\"" :~
,
I
\;bmth¢~
toen£ fiJi sHirt ~p~~ research
~econtacted Berlin, and as~ed
I
:
J ~n~(BJ'SSUb'""."
,/J:'i
~as in tOUCh¥lit~u
on these two
iff,
/tt~{I~:~]~e;x j:fi~~~~E:1 t~I,when
'
;/ .'
, he niov~C~~~!~i~~rnia.
::
:
: .'
.:
.'
"
.'~:
::
',',
~
','.','"
'.
'.
originally requested th~t ne e a ,qw,e'd Jb gp')n~e'rYie' \\ ':, "'::mself,'''t;mtwas told no due to financial considerations. LI\'-\,y'e~t ~hea¢/~n4 !irl~~rvieYv~q \~\\ and-he denied
e~~ytJ)ing. They di9tC?py .hi~phpn~;bOO,~!('ier~sti:g~, h,e ~d:~ email address ~f 111 ht33 hotmal!. O,tn In hIS' address book/ !i !! i ',ari\thls~\and found out that It was io.-_ ..... 'c,¢ount.f ,/ ¥vas:~9'bt :~~rP~m er'\of\~he Q~~A.ranygroup, and was ...oIII!'--I~~
associated with Ziad Jarrah. //
/
I II
i /,'/
"ii!
\
":\
\\ \\..
....
·'I~s.6s~~t~at tht~re ofueJ Interesting "eonn~~Qns. During a s~arYhf'of Motassadeq 's apartnrent, tJfe,y:ifo~rp a/i¥ece of paper, wit'f\ a,~,address 'i.~ German and' .:" written' orj!i~. They ran::iheaddres.s and it came back :t ' who ,are!also cousihS df the dthe' " , He/vias able to confirm through
cousins.
I
:
,/,/
::
:,'
,!
il
,f
::
.-
,/
i! hat
'
Another strfngetOl)nectio';
. ,/
is that
S oflthe
...........
-
"\.\,
....... -~-.-
.\, ,were their\,\""",
....
~/had/th~/ilumbef for an:iipdi~i;~uaL:l-n-a-m-e~di-~\ ,:--~\i!!-,~""'---r-' f p10ne ~u~ber was in/cop:tact wi~hl i lllu~~foUS times prior\tp 9/11. \" and !I ~~mber in their cell phones. Ih~:s sent a\~equest to ! Germany to have him.interviewed, but he do~s~:'i think that this has happened,
Ih~dl
A
.
/ j I /A number of the leads-that he sent ~dUJrmany have not been completed by the ! !Germans. J'h some cases, they couldnltfind t~~people, or the interviews w~:~ld have
i ! !interfered
,:with their prosecutions.
j/
!!
i
\. \
0\1'
\, \.
•
.'i' // As a side note, all ~fth~ /~ n(With the exception has ties to . , " the Al-Noot-rnosque. He ~ssymed trat the f\'1qsque was in hamburg, but he's ~bt sure. i'· After learning ofs6me of these additional connections \ as~~anted approval to travel to ~A,/t6 intervi~wDhi~selJ.. IS n9t sure wher~ .. _.-.... : :u .was living in LA. lhis/timeDconceded thathe recogmze a picture of'binalshib, He ! !!/ :/ said .rhough thathe only knew him from the'mosque (al-Qods and one other mosque in ,flapl burg). l;{e'had also foundoutthaj l.vorked at Hay Computers in Hambu~g at i /// ,"":/t~e same time as binaishib an~t.two of the other hijackers' associates. Ddenied\" ... th...a.... t _ !!!! / " he worked there. At,/thi~.poi:6tJ lasked for a material witness warrant fori.. _---I !IF i, :/He gotit, and~~ftr(fnsferred from INS custody (where he was at the time) to the " Southern Districrb1New York. /
! i!i ,...:'
"
i.l;:>··/.······»
0'
.r
"
••••
N?:""""""':'"
9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
" .. y /
"9/11 Law Enforcement
•
L.-~' .',.
Y'
.
Privacy
Afte~as
picked u: ;~~~Mii:t"':'itw~~l1t,tl1e
FBI interviewed him again' .
In a proffer sesslOILI Iwas 10 on the interview, as was] I from PENITBOM. This time he admitted knowing "of' binalshib, and working at Hays
Computer, but that was it. A jtl!e thr let him out, and he voluntarily departed to Jordan on September 3\ 2003. was deported for Jordan, though he has since come '" back to Canada, and] (departed the US as well. He's not sure whether they are on ...... the Watchlist or not, but 'l)oted that they were deported, and that accordingly they should .not be able to return to the...U.S,:· ~
I;
". ~as "de finite involved."! land his cousins all said that he left New Jersey for California in July ~OOl:- There are no phone links betweenc:::Jind the hijackers. There.is a witness who.says that he saw the hiiackers at a gas station in Little Falls.New Jersey'. This is the same gas s1:ation'\tha rained at./ The owner of this station ..... was also the-owner of the si~tion wper an the othe~ . lended up workinf" (the staton owned b . The co-owner/Of both stations is named"" . .who was Jewish 'and convertedito I~lami had "problems" in . the past, and wouldn't necessarily be the most reliable witness .. /!
D~,~s
1\'
•
at the station With the! iii :1' Th~ \finally admitted that '~hey k~ewf ,.but. si!id tl\at they ididij't associate with hin:" With regard td '" I~~ tlh~s t~at. ~!ougptL to the gas station for possible employment ·.6~"ori·e ..occ~sid~. \T~eY\Ahor.re~ IPhotograph to the people at the station, but-they-said ...that, th~y' didn't re90gniz~Jlim': kls~~or~e~
Gb~~/GY£
The witness.who s:J{4~hij~<;kersi\ the al;o said that he saw them at the gas station and a BostonMarket.. A~'4\sd,4s~~4!~~O\f¥, ~e witness's story was corroborated for the GoldGym, 'tQe"'ga'~ '~i~ffp~i)~ #eaf/b9th the gym and the Boston
a\
market.
anq
\\
.i:\\:\:\
l/'
\~iii! I, ii Isaf2L~~'~'~,·"~'~.,,~~~i#qff'un across
As a final matter~1 connections in his investigatIOns of the hija~~;~~~.;'he'ir
any Saudi associates.
9/11 Personal
•
Privacy
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