Discussions On Serendipity

Rajesh Serendipity from Sanskrit word Serendipity means sudden and unexpected discoveries, has originated from Swarna dweep old name of srilanka. The discoverer wanted to search something else but he discovered swarna dweep. which was pronounced by him as serendip which late got converted to serendipity

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இரவி/రవ Serendipity is from Tamil word i strongly objted that the word Serendipity is derived from Sanskrit word Serendipity. truly sri lanka is named for gem (Rathna or Rathinam) and not for swarna (Gold). i think you got it. it is derived from Tamil words Cheran (kingd of chera- Present Kerala State) and Teevu (island). earlier, people from Kerala i.e. Eeluva Thiyya community were settled in Srilanka. hence Srilanka was also called as Eelam. Therefore it is island (Teevu) of chera people (Eeluva) and thereby its cheran's (Seren) Teevu (dipity). over build ups in air would not help sanskrti as mother of all languages of the world. even the english word "all" is derived from "ellaa" a Tamil Word.

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सौरभ.

ravi its okay we could accept your theory , but ேேரன "cheran " peoples island that is தீவம teevu , this teevu is becoming deep as per your saying, but this deep ? where did it came from ? sanskrit ? or u wanna say it came in sanskrit from tamil ...how would u proove that its the otherway round...more over you find sanskrit domination whole of the lingual kingdom of subcontinent and endo european languages too ...where is your tamil and her roots ?

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இரவி/రవ do you agree that gems (rathna) will include gold. Sri lanka is name for for gem (rathna dweepa, ) and not for gold (Swarna Dweepa). That analysed word deep is not derived from sanskrit but from Tamil. you could prove only with regard to dipity if i agree and not against seren. if you say that it is derived from marathi, i will applause. if you want to prove sanskrit mother of all languages of the world, you should research all those language. you like marathi people first learn marathi and sanskrit, and then all research all languages of the world. i am doing the same. dont treat this scrap as scraped with hatred, but this is the fact. Sanskrit is created by Tamils e.g. sage agasthya, to preserve and hide some secret should not reach common people, thats why vedas in Tamil were called as MaRai (hide).

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இரவி/రవ even the word lanka denoting present srilanka is derived from the Tamil word Ilangu which means island. Tamilian call lanka as ilangai because it is an island. The Tamil word Ilangu for island is comparable wih English/Latin words, Isle and Island. Sanskrit Etymology for Dweep for Island is not agreeable. these etymologist give the meaning of land surrounded two side for the word Dweep. Then what is the word for land surrounded by land one, three and all sides in Sanskrit. They could give the words Ekapa, thrypa, nanapa (nana=all) to those lands. they could not explain it at all as there are no such words in Sanskrit. the word Theevu and Dweepa is derived from the Tamil word Thippai which means land created by soil or sand in river or sea. thippai->theepam->Theevam, theevu-> Dweep.

1 ஆகஸட Rajesh Serendipity from Sanskrit not Tamil..!! Ravi ji, There is disconnect between the tiltle of the thread and the verbose explaination given by you. You didn't state what the etymology of swarna in tamil?? so far as dweep is concerned....can't it be otherwise, given below??? Dweep-> theevu->Theevam->theepam->thippai The above is supposed to be derived as the words below Mahendra(sanskrit)-> Mahendran(Tamil) Tilak (Sanskrit) -> Thilagan (Tamil) Surya(Sanskrit) -> Suryam (Sanskrit)

1 ஆகஸட Daisy Tamil in itself is actually derived from Sanskrit. Which is why lot of Tamil words are similar to Sanskrit.

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இரவி/రవ

Mahendra(sanskrit)-> Mahendran(Tamil) Tilak (Sanskrit) -> Thilagan (Tamil) Surya(Sanskrit) -> Suryam (Sanskrit) ***** Dear Mr. Rajesh, these words are Tabhava of sanskrit. In Tamil Sanskrit words never allowed in its script and pronouncication. Most of dravidian including Telugu language, Tatsama and Tatbhava mode was used as against direct usage of sanskrit mode. The same case is availlable in present north indian languages also. it doesn't mean Tamil was derived from sanskrit. both are different in grammer and etymology. Even sanskrit grammer is not common to indo european languages.

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இரவி/రవ *****Tamil in itself is actually derived from Sanskrit. Which is why lot of Tamil words are similar to Sanskrit. Dear madam it is also proved by named etymologist that there are several Tamil words in sanskrit language.

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இரவி/రవ **** You didn't state what the etymology of swarna in tamil?? Dear Mr. Rajesh The sanskrit scholers state that the etymology of swarna was derived from su+varna that means good colour. then swarna alone is having good colour and rest of gems are not having good colour according to them. what a thinking. The true Tamil Etymology is "sol" which means red and shining. from it, the Tamil word Sonnam was derived. still sanskrit scholors use both suwarna and swarna without giving proper etymology. as i told earlier, sri lanka is named for rathna/Mani(Gems) and not for swarna (Gold). The word Cheran was the correct application for the word "seren" Rajesh Ravi ji, Anybody will accept Srilanka was known previously Swarna Dweep (not cheran theevu ) because of Golden Lanka over there as stated in Ramayana if you have read it. If Cheran King was so famous why no body knew about him except Tamils or Keralites? Moreover, Cheran was king of Keral not Lanka, so why lanka be called cheran theevu?

I know swarna = su+varna.......still both these splitted words are sankrit!!..... Again, Swarna Dweep > Seren Dip (as per foreign prnounciation) > Serendipity

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இரவி/రవ ****If Cheran King was so famous why no body knew about him except Tamils or Keralites? Moreover, Cheran was king of Keral not Lanka, so why lanka be called cheran theevu? Dear Mr. Rajesh, i never said that Cheran was a name of a king. Chera is Tamil Name for Kerala country. The people of Eeluva migrated to present Srilanka. Thats why, Srilanka is also called as Eelam. In that country Tamil Tigers demands Tamil "Eelam" country. moreover, Srilankan Tamil is quite the same as Malayalam except grammer. In Srilanka, Sanskrit never spoken language. Singalese and esp Tamil are the predominent languages in Srilanka. In sanskrit dictionaries, Srilanka is named for rathnadweepa and not for swarnadeepa. In Tamil, Ilangu means shining like gem/Mani. Hence Tamilian calls Srilanka as Ilangai which means the shining country (due to Gem). More particularly Ilangu also means island. Hence the Srilanka was also called as ilangai as it is an island. Since it was an island belonging to Chera(Kerala) Country, the Cholas and Pandyas always waged a war against Srilanka to extend their territory which is near to Chola and Pandya Kingdoms comparing to Chera. In Sanskrit, the etymology of Swarna and dweepa is joking. swarna means good colour and dweepa means island surrounded by two side according to sanskrit pundits. truley Srilanka is surrounded by sea all sides. All metals and gems including gold are having good colour. but accoring to sanskritan pandits, gold alone is having good colour. In sanskrit dictionary, there is a word only for island surrounded by two sides alone. if the land is surrounded by one, three or all sides, they don't have word for that islands. There are several Towns, villages, and Ports in Tamil Nadu which were mentioned by Greek visitors. thats why the serendipity was came to greek language.

9 ஆகஸட Aniket Sengupta# lanka-gem or gold to be truthful.........acc 2 myths lanka is of gold----svarna lanka bt frm ancient times till today....lanka is the largest producer of natural gems g.either one holds good @ravi........... sanskrit at the moment seems nt to b a descendant tamil,atleast nt a direct one........ and regarding thoughtlessness calling gold suvarna shudnt coz much havoc.........

fire is called pavaka or purifier bt i think water, herbs n sunlight also hav such qualities.......origin of nouns r mostly onomatopoeic and also derived frm adjective or qualities of the thing in consideration like.......vishnu being called unpendra.....like air being called maruta( menaing "dont cry" in sanskrit-when indra tried to slay the wind god as a foetus, he said so) these shud nt b streched to some creepy logics however its very true that tamil contrary to our common opinion is a very very ancient tradition and with loan words all over the world...... iam a botanist n i knw several latin words r of tamil origin eg: oryza(rice in latin) and also rice(english) clearly seem to me derived frm tamil "arisi"

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இரவி/రవ In Tamil dictionaries including Telugu, Srilanka was mentioned as Rathinaththeeevu/Rathna Divi respecitvely. Burma alone was mentioned as Suvarna Bhumi/swarna Bhumi. At present also, Srilanka is named for Gems.

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இரவி/రవ aniket you are really a gem

12 ஆகஸட Aniket Sengupta# -------In Tamil, Ilangu means shining like gem/Mani. Hence Tamilian calls Srilanka as Ilangai which means the shining country (due to Gem). More particularly Ilangu also means island. Hence the Srilanka was also called as ilangai as it is an island.-------This may b possible under the possible of reverse sankritisation….perhaps saskrit speakers found “Ilangu” difficult to pronounce so it becomes lanka….like in english jagannath becomes juggernaut…… sirajuddaula becomes ”sir Rodger dollar” rabindranath thakur become tagore in Sanskrit----like “anglo” become “aangla”(eg-aangla bhaashaa) in Sanskrit maxmuller is “maksha-mular” banga(Bengal) is vanga (Bengali doesn’t recognize any “v”-sound) in modern north Indian languages---table is “taybeel”

saskrit being dominantly donating type…its very difficult to establish the reverse process… Sanskrit imbibing words…bt in case of ancient words n local names of s.india, dravidain origin may b held supreme. Even seemingly Sanskrit words like kavery , oundra(Andhra) dnt hav any proper meaning…a name of lord shiva is shambhu which sounds like Sanskrit bt is frm tamil meaning copper colour or red

12 ஆகஸட Bahman Serendipity from Persian Etymology: from its possession by the heroes of the Persian fairy tale The Three Princes of Serendip http://www.answers.com/Serendipity http://livingheritage.org/three_princes.htm

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இரவி/రవ @Bahman ****From the characters in the Persian fairy tale The Three Princes of Serendip, who made such discoveries, from Persian Sarandīp, Sri Lanka, from Arabic sarandīb.] from http://www.answers.com/Serendipity If serendipity be a Sanskrit word, then surely the word swarna dweepa has to be pronounced as hwarnadweepa in Persian, as in that language and Avesthan languages, the letter "S" has to be pronounced to be "H". e.g. "asura as ahura". From this it is clear that word not pronounced with initial "S" in Persian language. Hence Serendipity is surely not a Sanskrit word. Thanks Mr. Bahman.

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இரவி/రవ @aniket ****This may b possible under the possible of reverse sankritisation….perhaps saskrit speakers found “Ilangu” difficult to pronounce so it becomes lanka….like in english aniket is right

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Bahman இரவ ி/రవ In Persian & Avestan we have many words that start with letter "S" . Like Soroush, Sepantaa, Sepehr ... Aniket Sengupta# s/h replacement of aventan n vedic language is beyond doubt..............asura of vedas becomes ahura of avesta ............and soma becomes homa(both retained in sanskrit)........avestan n its present descendant persian prefers ushma-varna क ख za,ha,sha, etc……..

17 ஆகஸட @ravi Dear madam

Rajesh

it is also proved by named etymologist that there are several Tamil words in sanskrit language.

Please give some examples???

17 ஆகஸட Rajesh The sanskrit scholers state that the etymology of swarna was derived from su+varna that means good colour. then swarna alone is having good colour and rest of gems are not having good colour according to them. what a thinking. The true Tamil Etymology is "sol" which means red and shining. from it, the Tamil word Sonnam was derived. still sanskrit scholors use both suwarna and swarna without giving proper etymology. as i told earlier, sri lanka is named for rathna/Mani(Gems) and not for swarna (Gold). The word Cheran was the correct application for the word "seren" Well I don't disagree that Swarna is from su+varna. But both *Su-* and *varna* are from sanskrit. Varna means color in skt and Su- means good as used in Su-kanya, Su-kumar, Sugandha, Su-kul etc and many more... Hae you ever read Ramayana?.. ...All hindus know Lanka was of Gold. So this is second proof that Lanka was called Swarna Dweep....not after king cheren

17 ஆகஸட Rajesh @In Sanskrit, the etymology of Swarna and dweepa is joking. swarna means good colour and dweepa means island surrounded by two side according to sanskrit pundits. No. In skt Dweep means land surrounded by all sides. As andaman nicobar dweep/deep, lakshdwep, maaldweep.....

Now swarna doesn't only mean good color.....it gold as well........as Swarna Padak (Gold Medal).....

17 ஆகஸட Rajesh Ravi... Tamil (Thilagan) is from skt (Tilak)...... I know one Arabian Word Dil (Heart) is used in Tamil as (Thill)...now tell me whether Dil came from Thill or Vice Versa?

17 ஆகஸட Rajesh @In Tamil, Ilangu means shining like gem/Mani. Hence Tamilian calls Srilanka as Ilangai which means the shining country (due to Gem). More particularly Ilangu also means island. Hence the Srilanka was also called as ilangai as it is an island Ravi ...I agree this can be true. Lanka came from tamil.....Ilangai...... But still you can't say Lanka's name was swarna dwep as well.... Because Indian it self had many names in past.....India, Bharat, Aryavarta etc...

17 ஆகஸட Rajesh @Bahman Serendipity from Persian Etymology: from its possession by the heroes of the Persian fairy tale The Three Princes of Serendip http://www.answers.com/Serendipity Bahman, persian itself has many skt words. Like Madar > Matra[skt] Paakiza > paak (pawan) + ja ( born of ) [skt] DarGaah > Dwar + Grih [skt] Sharab > Sura [Skt] ...and many more

17 ஆகஸட Aniket Sengupta# rajesh

@Sharab > Sura [Skt] cant uit be sura+aapa(water)=suraapa becoming persian sharab?

17 ஆகஸட Bahman Rajesh Yes, Of course. Sanskrit & Persian are coming from a great languages family: Aryan languages (Indo-Iranian) They have same grand roots. Also English is one of Aryan languages (Indo-European) from German family.

17 ஆகஸட Bahman we call water in Persian: aap or aab Rajesh @cant uit be sura+aapa(water)=suraapa becoming persian sharab? Ankit, Possible, but still it has roots in Skt word "Sura"....so sharab will be called a hindi word not arabian or persian.

18 ஆகஸட Bahman in Persian we say mey

19 ஆகஸட Rajesh @in Persian we say mey ....Bahman ...you are not correct.....this word in persian has again come from Skt "may/mey"........the related popular bollywood word is May-khana.. May.May in skt means "intoxicated of......." You might have heard related hindu words to mey/may as below... Ram-May Krishna-May Bhagwa-May please let me know of you have any further question.

20 ஆகஸட Bahman I'm Iranian & speaking Persian

in Persian: mey=wine aap/aab=water

21 ஆகஸட Rajesh I'm Iranian & speaking Persian in Persian: mey=wine aap/aab=water Bahman, Lot of words in persian are from sanskrit. Mey is sanskrit originally. Persian has got this word from skt

21 ஆகஸட Bahman NO Sanskrit has got this word from Persian.

21 ஆகஸட its so foolish

Aniket Sengupta#

RAJESH--Mey is sanskrit originally. Persian has got this word from skt BAHMAN--sanskrit has got this word from Persian. plz they all belong to the same family....they r monophyletic....not borrowed!!

22 ஆகஸட Rajesh @Sanskrit has got this word from Persian. Bahman, Skt is much older than persian...... Urdu and persian have been borrowing/importing words from different languages...... Even from english...!!!! See this how rich Urdu is... http://www.orkut.com/AlbumZoom.aspx?uid=952016732077772324&pid=1200504 406314&aid=1#pid=1200504406314

22 ஆகஸட Rajesh @Bahman Even so called persian words Pakiza has also originated from skt Pakiza = Pak (pawan skt) + J ( means - born of in skt)

22 ஆகஸட Bahman persian have been borrowing/importing words from different languages...... Even from english...!!!! that's so funny இரவி/రవ ****No. In skt Dweep means land surrounded by all sides. As Andaman microbar Dweep/deep, lakshdwep, maaldweep..... Truly all these Sea Islands are surrounded by all sides. I agree. However the etymological meaning of Sanskrit is surrounded by two sides, Dwi-Two. Hence the word for Andaman Nicobar and like Islands has to be explained by Sanskrit Pundits since they are surrounded by sea all sides. ****Now swarna doesn't only mean good color.....it gold as well........as Swarna Padak (Gold Medal)..... I agree that in Sanskrit the word Swarna includes both good colour and gold. However etymology of Swarna for gold was not properly explained. Gold is having good colour as stated by you and agreed by me. Remaining metals and gems are also having good colour. Most of the Sanskrit words were not properly explained by those pundits with etymological roots. E.g. Suparna (eagle) is explained by them as bird having good feathers. Even peacock is having good feathers. I reiterate that I am not against Sanskrit or Sanskrit etymology. I am only against wrong etymology which includes both Tamil and Sanskrit.

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இரவி/రవ @ Bahman ****In Persian & Avestan we have many words that start with letter "S" . Like Soroush, Sepantaa, Sepehr ... I agree that in both these languages, words starting with S are there. However the Sanskrit word starting with S should be in Persian as H. if it is not starting with H, it is not a Sanskrit word.

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இரவி/రవ **Tamil (Thilagan) is from skt (Tilak)...... ***I know one Arabian Word Dil (Heart) is used in Tamil as (Thill)...now tell me whether Dil came from Thill or Vice Versa? For the word heart, Desi Tamilians never uses the word Dil or Thil as alleged and averred by you. They have their own Desi words for heart like Nenju, nenjam, ullam and the like, unlike other Indian languages. your hearsay is totally wrong. Tamilian including me being Telugu, are not claiming that the Arabic word Dill was a Tamil word.

7 ெேபடமபர Rajesh @Bahman persian have been borrowing/importing words from different languages...... Even from english...!!!! that's so funny ...It seems funny to you because you are listening first time. I have already given proper reasoning to you.

7 ெேபடமபர Rajesh @For the word heart, Desi Tamilians never uses the word Dil or Thil as alleged and averred by you. They have their own Desi words for heart like Nenju, nenjam, ullam and the like, unlike other Indian languages. your hearsay is totally wrong. Tamilian including me being Telugu, are not claiming that the Arabic word Dill was a Tamil word. I know Tamils don't use the arabian word Thill/Dil for heart. I want to say, Tamil speaker many times Tamilize other language word. I have see Tamils writing Dil as Thill in mails. Thilagan is example of it.

7 ெேபடமபர Rajesh @Bahman, If a word is used persian/arabian or urdu. It doens't mean that the word belong to their languages. Example1: Hindi Word "Sar"(Head)is used muslim names Sar-Faraz and Sar-Farosh. But *Sar* is originated from skt word *Shir*......which is used in Shormani and Shira .....both this words are used in old hindu text....

Example 2: Mannat (Shahrukh khan's hame name) Seems to be an Urdu/Persian words.....but it has root in Skt word Mann(Mind)...So it's a Skt/Hindi or Indian Languages word.

7 ெேபடமபர Bahman Do you think Persian is not a independent language? Persian language is like mother for many languages like Urdu, Pashtoon, ... & is like sister for many language like Sanskrit, German, Armenian, ...

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இரவி/రవ I know Tamils don't use the arabian word Thill/Dil for heart. I want to say, Tamil speaker many times Tamilize other language word. I have see Tamils writing Dil as Thill in mails. Thilagan is example of it. Since the letter "Dh" is unnecessay to Tamil Language, the letter "Th" be used to denote and spell it as Dh without any hurdle or confusion. Dhill always be pronounced as Dhil and not Thil. wrong spelling is common to all people. that is not fault of the language.

10 ெேபடமபர Ramakrishnan Modern persian (Farsi) has nothing to do with Old Persian & Avestan. Its like comparing Hindi with Sanskrit.

10 ெேபடமபர Bahman No, that is not true. As an Iranian & Zoroastrian who speaks Persian & Avestan I know that today's Persian is very similar to Old Persian but Farsi (or modern Persian) is as the same Persian I know without Arabic words. If people want not to use surplus Arabic words instead of Persian words. Bahman Modern Persian and Old Persian belong to the same family. They are not only close in pronunciation but in Grammar. Specially in Grammar they are same.

10 ெேபடமபர Ramakrishnan No one speaks avestan. Maybe you know some manthras from the gathas, that doesnt mean you can speak the language.

Or maybe I am wrong. As far as I know, no one can speak avestan, not even zoroastrians.

10 ெேபடமபர Ramakrishnan Avestan grammar cannot be used for Farsi... come on. Farsi is not even derived from avestan. It is derived from sassanian/pahlavi (middle-iranian) and cannot be directly related to old-persian. The zend avesta is not in avestan.

10 ெேபடமபர Bahman You can share more ideas & information in this cmm: http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=1668735

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இரவி/రవ ****No one speaks avestan. Maybe you know some manthras from the gathas, that doesnt mean you can speak the language. Brahmins who are Aryan have no mother tongue and they are speaking vernacular languages of India. They even spell the Sanskrit manthras wrongly. I have seen a Brahmin priest who regularly comes to our office always is enchanting those manthras adding Tamil words (Manipravala Style- instead of using Vyapara (profession) and Ayush (life), they use Tamil words Thozhil and Ayul in one spc manthra) and also wrongly pronouncing Sanskrit’s alphabets (kh as k, gh as g and the like).