T5 B35 K Moore Fbi 302 1 Of 3 Fdr- Memo Re Mohamed Sadiq Odeh Interview W Patrick Fitzgerald Re Terror Bin Laden And Al Qaeda

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8/31/98 MOHAMED SAD10 ODEH was interviewed at Nairobi, Kenya, from August 15, 1998, through August 28, 1998. Also present during these interviews werejnvestigators |^^^|ljj^^^^^^l H^HH^^^^^^Hj^Hland, at times, Assistant United States Attorney PATRICK FITZGERALD. OOEH was advised of the identities of the interviewing agents and was advised that he had certain rights. OOEH was asked if he understood English enough to comprehend his rights and to answer questions if he chose to. OOEH responded that he was comfortable speaking English and would ask questions if he did not understand his rights or anything investigators should say. OOEH was then informed that the FBI agents were representatives of the United States Government and that under United States law, he (OOEH) had certain rights. It was explained that the FBI agents wanted OOEH to be sure that he understood those rights. ODEH was told that he did not have to speak to the FBI or answer any questions, even if he had previously spoken to the Pakistani authorities. ODEH was advised that if he chose to speak, anything he said could be used against him in a U.S. court or elsewhere. ODEH was further advised that in the United States, he would have the right to talk to a lawyer, to get advice before questioning and that he could have a lawyer present during any questioning and that in the U.S. if he could not afford a lawyer, one would be provided to him, should he desire, before any questioning. ODEH was advised that should he decide to speak with the FBI without a lawyer present^ he could stop answering questions at any time and that refusal to speak could never be used as evidence against him in a U.S. court. ODEH then asked whether a Kenyan lawyer was available. ODEH was told that under Kenyan law, the authorities were under no obligation to provide him an attorney and that he could be questioned by Kenyan authorities but did not have to answer. OOEH was advised that three possibilities existed regarding

Case ID : 315N-NY-267856-30Z 315N-NY-267856-S-1

Serial : 1144 103

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questioning. OOEH was advised that he could talk to both U.S. ODEHwasalsoadvised that no lawyer was available and should he want a lawyer present during questioning, the U.S. representatives would be compelled to leave. OOEH then asked if it was possible to speak to U.S. authorities alone. IAmerican authorities discussed that issue outside^Uij_s_gresence, OOEH stated that he would talk to both the FBI iHHJiJJillllllHH- °°EH was again informed of his right to silence and that he did not have to answer any questions. ODEH reviewed, read out loud, and signed an improvised Advice of Rights form at 11:25 a.m. local time, August 15, 1998. OOEH then asked a clarifying question as to what would happen if he later changed his mind and decided that he did not want to speak without a lawyer. It was made clear that OOEH always had the right to change his mind and choose any of the options outlined, including not talking to anyone. ODEH then stated that the Pakistani authorities lied to him after he told them (Pakistani authorities) the complete truth. OOEH indicated that the Pakistanis told him that he would be let go if he told the truth. MOHAHHED SAOIQ OOEH, date of birth (DOB): March 1, 1965; place of birth (POB): Tabouk, Saudi Arabia; aka Abu Yasser, Abu Muaath; current residence: the town of Witu, Kenya; is a citizen of Kenya and Jordan. ODEH is of Palestinian heritage and his parents reside in Jordan. ODEH is married toj

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ODEH stated that he is a member of AL QAEDA, known as "the base," which is USAHA BIN LADIN's organization. OOEH stated that he left Palestine to attend the Far Eastern University located in Manila, Philippines, in late 1986 to pursue studies in engineering and architecture. ODEH did not care about the Muslim concept of "Jihad" (Holy War) at the time even though there was Jihad activity in the Philippines during that time but it was isolated and far from Manila. OOEH states that after he became a "good Muslim" he used to go to the Islamic Center in Manila. The center was run by JAMITYA ISLAHIYTA and the KUWAITI ISLAMIC

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REVIVAL and was located on Timog Avenue, in the Quezon City part ]-..a Palestinian from Kuwait, age 32 at the of Manila. time, was in charge of the center. An individual named! in charge of the library and used to give ODEH books

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and cassettes: OOEH stated that while; in Manila he UvedjHth two Palestinians, f" fj frcfli-.GSza. and/ \from Rama 1 1 ah. ^^^^^^1I I Shortly thereafter. Cleaves and'^"*"*"* I ""••-.. \•I takes res'ittence OOEH stated that an hidfv^ual named with OOEH an Palestinian student in electrical engifreejring, \s between the seventy Muslim sects. OOEH becomes" supported by his father, began to teach OOEK and\e

[philosophically breaks away, however, conservative while/ they remain living together. OOEH becomes .interested in Jihad and the Mujahadeen via the KUWAIT! ISLAMIC REVIVAL at the Islamic Center. ODEH is indoctrinated by watching video tapes and listening to cassette tapes of ABOALLAH AZZAM, who is the leader of the Arabs' fighting in Afghanistan. OOEH was inspired by these tapes and people who were leaving the Philippines to join the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan. OOEH's father sent him t 1,000 to complete his thesis in school but he used the money instead to travel to Afghanistan. ODEH stated that .he -GflHett Shei K.L-- _J I tin Jordan to consuU if he (ODEH) should complete his studies before traveling to Afghanistan. ShetkF" ttotd uOEH to go to Afghanistan inmediately before completing studies. .. L a Palestinian from OOEH traveled withT (from Muscat, Oman. The three of Kuwait, andl them left Manila by air to Hong Kong, then Karachi, and overhand to Peshawar. Upon arrival in Peshawar, they stayed atl I inhere they Left, their luggageand received an identification card. From there, they and others were taken by small bus to the Afghan/Pakistan border, where they changed vehicles and were taken to the Al Farouk Camp. ODEH stated that this occurred in October 1990. The leader of the J froin Saudi Arabia. camp was|_ was replaced after two weeks by an individual named / from Mecca, Saudi Arabia. OOEH received two months of military training.

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described as a basic course divided into three levels. The first level is with small arms such as the AK-47 assault rifle and on to more powerful belt fed light machine guns. The second level is topography/map reading and basic explosives. The explosives course is for the use of mines and grenades and then on to the use of high explosives such as C3, CA and TNT. The third level is in the use of more complicated weapons such as anti-aircraft guns, mortars and anti-tank missiles. ODEH recalled that there were nine or ten instructors at the camp and remembered/

ODEH indicated that the students at the camp were divided into groups of ia-16 people and that the camp held about 150-200 or more if necessary. After training, ODEH returned to in Peshauar fr. mc^t fit-fro ,. trah^ ,>.„ ui M -rtaiA K~ ......

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deployed. ODEH explained that Arabs were deployed together as a group and tended to stay together for reasons of culture and religious variations between them and Afghans. An individual namedl f from Saudi Arabia was in charge of sending the recruits to their first assignments.

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ODEH did not deploy at this time because he remained in ,.-•••'_','.• Peshawar for a month to get dental treatment. ODEH was thet^ent to Jalalabad in December 1991/January 1992. ODEH's assignment was a rear or back line support group for the froritx' ODEH tended to the injured and only went to the front line>6r one week and saw no action. ODEH only stayed at this assignment for one month under the command of I I from.^audi Arabia. \H was transferred to:iahother nearby camp to teach

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-' ODEH was there only one month, then sent L - • to - Peshawar. -», back While in Peshawar, ODEH meets) who' ' was in charge of the clinic in Jalalabad.

jinvited ODEH to return to Jalalabad to.be a medic for a small salary. ODEH works for J fas a medic. While at the clinic, ODEH is wounded in the head in an air raid and is sent to Peshawar for ten days, then returns to Jalalabad. ODEH remains at the clinic in Jalalabad for only one month because he was bored and returned once again to Peshawar.

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OOEH meets a friend namedL Jin Peshawar who encouraged him to take Islamic courses at a school called HAHAD AL OUITAB WA SUNNAH. OOEH went to the school for three months until late 1991 and then decided that he wanted to remain in Afghanistan and become part of a group. OOEH was attracted to USAMA BIN LAD1N and the group AL QAEDA because it did not matter what nationality you were. ODEH was not interested in joining any Palestinian groups because its members took orders from a chain of command and would often do things that were not Islamically correct if ordered to do so. ODEH explained that AL QAEDA means the foundation or the base and means it is the base of military support of the Muslim people. AL QAEDA, according to ODEH, was looking for common goals for all Muslim people. ODEH further stated that AL QAEOA used to have 500 members but now has only 150, 50 of whom are outside of Afghanistan. OOEH was first approached by AL QAEDA while he was still at the basic training camp. ODEH's behavior, hU ability to work with others, his knowledge of the religion and respect towards others were the reasons he was approached to join AL QAEDA. ODEH at first was not sure that he wanted to make a commitment called beyat. A beyat, as explained by ODEH, is to swear to Allah that you will follow USAMA BIN LADIN as long as he follows Allah. ODEH stated that eventually one year passed before he decided to make beyat to BIN LADIN andI..AL OAtDA. During that one year, OOEH spent time at another camp called! J run by| Htil I then on to the!.......................Hor

more advanced training in mi I itary tactics. AflU THOMAMA was in charge off f and some of the from Saudi Arabia. SALEHEDDINE from Iran

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that he was ready and qualified to go to Peshawar to make beyat. ODEH wanted some stability and discipline in an organization that didn't have a high turnover of members. ODEH made beyat and officially joined AL QAEDA in March 1992. A representative of BIN LADIN named I > took the beyat from ODEH after/"""" I got a letter of introduction (probably) from I I OOEH

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had to promise to help all Muslim people everywhere. After joining AL QAEDA, OOEH returned to the[_ I I Afghanistan, to get his assignment. Since ODEH had medic training;.he was sent back to the I I as a medic in April 1992. OOEH remained there for two months then in June attended an advanced explosives course at the I from the 1992. OOEH stated that I .One of the instructors Camp was in charge at was an Egyptian named C. l ~"7 was skilled in explosives technology and instructed students in the use of mathematical formulas to determine the type and amount of explosives to do a job. OOEH took some courses from I \and described him as an ordinary At -> QAEDA member.! I was also an explosives instructor at the camp. His course was on the use of mines. ODEH remained at the camp for an additional month past the course to perform guard duty and to rest. At this time ODEH underwent treatment for I ^i Pakistan, then went to Peshawar for further recovery. Afterwards, OOEH went to retrieve his Jordanian passport, which was left at the I I which uaa no closed since the Afghan/Soviet war was winding down. His personal papers were transferred to the I . l Pakistan. ODEH's passport had expired and he renewed it at the Jordanian Embassy in Islamabad. This occurred at the. end of 1992. His new passport was due to expire in January 1998. After getting the new passport, ODEH traveled'back to PeshawaAto a new AL QAEDA house called thel -••' ... --t:-:-:;'6oEH stayed there for several weeks and wasn't, interested in attending any more ... camps. During thi* time,I H found ODEH at [and told him (OOEH) to come to another house to meet a I in Hayatabad. OOEH was told by leader, [ that the Jihad in Afghanistan was over and that they were moving to do Jihad elsewhere. OOEH was told to prepare for travel, first to Kenya, then to Somalia. OOEH left Pakistan for Nairobi, Kenya, on a Pakistan International Airways (PIA) flight in March of 1993. OOEH stayed in Nairobi, Kenya, for about two weeks. OOEH stayed at the Ambassador Hotel for the first night, then with a friend,

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an AL QAEDA member from Oman, for two weeks. ODEH at first made arrangements to travel two weeks earlier to Somalia Jbut could not get the proper visa. OOEH wound with|_

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up traveling on a smalt plane that smuggles khat into Somalia with OMAR from Morocco. OOEH landed by the Kenya-Somali border and waited for someone to come pick tiiiil up. OOEH waited in the border town of Handera, Kenya, and was takwv:it> the town of Belahawa in Somalia. ""-••.;;;--... ODEH stated that his mission in Somalia was to train o some of the tribes in fighting and to provide food and money. ODEH participated in training people in small arms and medical attention. These trainees 'in turn would be instructors for other Somali's. During this time, OOEH was 600 km from Mogadishu, where the United Nations (UN) had begun relief operations. OOEH trained this tribe for three weeks. Note: The interview was concluded at 6:00 p.m. local time on August 15, 1998. During the subsequent interviews, ODEH stated that he was in good condition and appeared well rested and fed. ODEH was asked at the beginning of each session if he would like to continue talking, to which he responded yes. ODEH was asked to identify a picture of.an individual known ««l I rfiEH was not told the name of the pictured individual. ODEH stated that he did not recognize the person in the picture. \....---""" ODEH was also asked to review an eight picture footo spread containing the picture of I ....-•-'" I ODEH stated that he could not identify any of the individuals in the photo spread. .. .

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ODEH stated that he was ordered to Somalia bv.l I which was coming from USAMA BIN LADIN.Of the seventeen different tribes in Somalia, AL QAEDA selected to help the one which had the closest philosophical ties to AL QAEDA. The tribe selected was Urn Rchan. They were trained for seven months. This tribe was affiliated with .UNITED MUSLIMS, AL 1TTIHAD ISLAMIYAA and hadl las its leader. According to ODEH, the time frame is April 1993. While in Somalia, ODEH hears that the

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UN people in Mogadishu and Kismau are causing fear among the tribes because the tribes are afraid they will lose power if the UN takes over. The tribes were also afraid that they would be disarmed if they accepted aid. The position of AL QAEDA regarding aid to Somalia by civilian organizations was that it was acceptable, it was, however, unacceptable for U.S. armed troops to be in Somalia. BIN IADIN/At QAEDA considered this colonization. ODEH was asked if BIN LAD IN would have attacked civilians and workers like he attacked U.S. troops. ODEH answered no, but BIN LADIN supported the attacks in Mogadishu.

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ODEH stated that he remained with the Um Rehan tribe until November 1993. During that time, COEH and others refreshed their own fighting skills. ODEH reported that I j.a leader of a group in South Somalia, asked an AL QAEDA leader naroedl Nor help. ODEH states thatr Vnhile returning from Mogadishu, stops to take over from' is described as a big leader of AL QAEDA and very close to BIN LADIN-and has beenwith BIN LAOIN since the beginning. \s Egyptian, about 42 yearsi old {at.the time in Somalia) and was with the Hujahadeen in.Afghanistan. ODEH knows 'frow Afghanistan. ODEH stated thatl at the time. These people were] Mil,

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ODEH and the above went to an area called Dobri and made a camp. | | left and indicated he was returning t;b Sudan. I lhad made an agreement with/ ..-••-' if or the five trainers to travel to instruct people of the Ogaden tribe.

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ODEH recalled what he knew about I ^migginn to Mogadishu. I I was sent by BIN LADIN to assess the situation in Mogadishu. Somali leaders AIDEED and ALI HANI were fighting each other as well as the UN and U.S. I Ttraveled undercover as a businessman to Mogadishu in November 1993. fT |__| reported that the UN had most of the area under their control. AIDEEO's tribe (the Hawir) met with[. Jpnd an

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J They individual named either \_ agreed to cooperate with each other to take the UN out of Mogadishu by force in military fashion. I Huac happy about this meeting. ODEH knew that this would result in AL QAEDA helping SAHAL in Mogadishu. ODEH stated that an individual named I I s.t-onpgd at ODEH's camp on his way back from Mogadishu and told ODEH that-he. participated in the actions against the UN in Mogadishu and that the UN was leaving.

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ODEH stated that while he was in Somalia, a shooting occurred between people in OOEH's group and the UN contingent while on the road. ODEH stated that his group was split into two groups and the AL QAEDA group approximately 70 km ahead of him on the road was involved in some kind of confrontation with UN personnel.

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After Somalia, OOEH came to Kenya in August 1994 with I bv hired car. TWev lived together in a rented house in the coastal town of Mombasa. ODEH states they drove from Somalia to Nairobi, then tp..Mo(nbasa. Also arriving tn Kenya was I | from Morocco, who he h.ad-met in Afghanistan and later Nairobi. Other., individuals incinda!"" I :«ka jWho he had been with in Afghanistan at the | [ Gamp. ..OD.EJi..described L who likes to joke and was nine years younger ttisnt himself-» ODEH stated that l__^ was also a trainer iTi Somalia. Another . individual was named EZIZIH who was with ODEH in Afghanistan and Somalia. After arriving in Kenya, I Irigr.irigd to gp. to, the Sudan and then Chechnya. ODEH believes that I Vis, now in Afghanistan. ODEH himself desired Kenya because it Was a quiet country and he wished to settle down and get married and reside in the Muslim area of Mombasa. . .. ODEH stated that in November 1994, I I came to visit him in Mombasa, i i-tias happy to see that ODEH was married and gave ODEK a fiberglass boat to be used in a wholesale fish business. The arrangement was that the business was for AL OAEDA. ODEH was entitled to take money for his need to live and give the rest to AL QAEDA and to employees that were in AL QAEDA. ODEH stayed in the fish business for two years. ODEH further stated that he was paid money by AL QAEDA on a yearly basis. ODEH last received his yearly advance in November 1997.

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In March 1997, ODEH was given a mission by USAMA BIN LADIN to go back to Somalia to evaluate the situation there. The individual, according to ODEH, who gave him the mission on behalf of BIN LAD IN wasf\(with a last name that sounds like "el From the description provided by ODEH, it was then immediately determined by writer that the individual _1 named Q converted Muslim o /who was in the 1 Tanzanite business.I .1 m ..Jl Irhad come to Kenya from Sudan and was a friend of BIN LADIN who fought in Afghanistan. ODEtt further

ODEH described an Egyptian named £ (or aka Khaled, as someone he knew from Afghanistan and Somalia. |___| is *..memfaer; of AL QAEDA.. and had recently traveled to Afghanistan; he has a wife arid two>'ctitIdrerv.:--f~~l introduced OOEH to his -wife. L J left Ha4«>bi..on.August 1, 1998, after receiving an emergency order to leave Kenya. I also told ODEH to leave and that the orders were coining from

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Moofcasa. ODEH stated £__|was in regular contact with AL QAEDA leadership in Afghanistan and was ordered to tell all AL QAEDA people to leave Kenya. ODEH stated that on August 1. 1998.1 lorderea' him to leave and told him to be out of Kenya by August 6, 1998. ODEH asked I l-tih"v they were leaving. FADEL responded that there was an emergency and there may be a need for them to return • to Afghanistan. I I gave ODEH one thousand U.S. dollars ($1,000) to travel to Karachi, Pakistan, and that someone would meet him there. ODEH traveled with\. ODEH got caught by the Pakistani authorities and/_^^ was able to get through.

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a ODEH stated that other Kenyan Al QAEDA people traveled on that day. I frail traveled on the same flight on August 6, 1998. ODEH stated tht the people traveling met at the Hilltop Hotel in Nairobi in the days prior to traveling. ODEH stayed at the Hilltop two nights after traveling by bus from Mombasa all night on August 3, 1998,

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and arriving in Nairobi on August 4, 1998. OOEH slept at the Hilltop on August 4 and 5, 1998. OOEH registered with the fake name that he had acquired on a bogus passport provided by SALEH. ODEH stated that I Icarng by the hotel three times by car and understood that he drove a pick-up truck, according to conversations. OOEH did not ever actually see| ~| tr.uck. ODEH was in room 102B and\e in 107A. I Icame to the hotel late on the last day. OOEH stated that the others were staying at another hotel about 50. meters from the Hilltop. OOEH indicated that on August 5, he left the hotel around 2:30 p.m. to walk alongXpi Avenue to buy clothes. ODEH purchased a Nike shirt and two books and returned to the hotel at 4:15. ODEH stated that he did not know that the American Embassy was located on Hoi Avenue and did not recall seeing the Embassy. ODEH remained at the hotel until the following day, August 6, until about 3 p.m. ODEH went out alone to buy a jacket and towel and to get his shoes shined. When ODEH returned to the hotel at 5 p.m., I las there. OOEH »nHl I went out to eat at Malindi Dished I shined his shoes,' then they both returned to the hotel for 6:30 sunset prayer and to get ready to travel that evening. ODEH stated that.J -|:~:;"—== 1 •front'Tahtanfa had already traye.Led- that day at approximately 3 p.m. via Kenya Airways to Karachi. ODEH and travelled on Pakistani International Airways to Karachi the evening of August 6. OOEH was asked to review pictures taken at the morgue in Nairobi of the bomb blast victims. ODEH refused to iW at the pictures. . ODEH then provided more detailed information concerning his final days in Nairobi. ODEH arrived in Nairobi ..from Mombasa on August 4, 1998, at 7:30 a.m. .after traveling all night alone. He then proceeded to the Hilltop Hotel, which was the prearranged meeting point. SALEH and I ~~lwere already there. ODEH went to sleep .until noon time. When ODEH got up, he met I T i la* they were leaving. They stated that they were going out to do a small job and would be right back and for ODEH to stay behind and rest. OOEH indicated that the "small job" did not mean something trivial as shopping.

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working Copy ODEH stated that three months prior to his leaving Jflpt a message from USAMA Kenya, he was told by|_ BIN LAD IN that people in AL QAEOA must get ready to travel soon. OOEH assumed that it would also include his wife and child. He was told to get his travel documents in order. Later on, OOEH left his home in witu for Mombasa to ask I khe details. I I told OOEH that he had to be out of Kenya by August 6, 1998. OOEH stated that for all the time he had been a member of AL OAEDA, something this urgent had never happened to him before. OOEH stated that he knew of the February 1998 BIN LAD IN fatwa calling for all Islamic groups to make a front against Americans.

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Approximately 40 days prior to August IdeliVered"a" message to OOEH thatl Somalia wanted to meet BIN LADIM and that .OOEH, must take him to Afghanistan. There was also a message that BIN LAO IN had new plans to fight and OOEH had to. travel to confer with BIN LAD1N. OOEH stated that durrhg conversations with I [stated he likes Kenya and would not do an operation in Kenya, whereasF [disliked Kenya and wanted to do an operation in Kenya. OOEH then discussed some hypothetical situations with interviewing agents. OOEH was asked if he would participate in a BIN LADIN operation against the U.S. military in Saudi Arabia. OOEH answered yes, if it were Islamically correct. He would, however, first consult a scholar and added that he does not follow blindly like a cat. OOEH was then asked if he uo\ild do an operation against a U.S. building in Kenya if no Kenyans could be killed. OOEH said no, because he likes Kenyans and Kenya. OOEH was asked if he would participate in an operation to bomb a U.S. building outside of Kenya in a place such as Tanzania if only Americans were killed. He stated that he would consider it if tslamically correct. He further stated that if an operation was Islamically correct and ordered by BIN LAD1N, he would have no choice but to do it. ODEH further stated that if he wanted to kill Americans he could have taken a machine gun and gone after and strafed American tourists he noticed in Mombasa. ODEH then feigned shooting a machine gun while making a "rat tat tat" sound with his voice.

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OOEH left Mombasa in December 1997 to relocate to a small town called Uitu. During the feast of Ramadan (March 1998),I I had a business idea to open a furniture business because there was good wood in that area. OOEH returned to Mombasa withl I While in Mombasa. OOEH met withl ~l who told him to come to a meeting in the town of Marindi. Later at the meeting is OOEH, I Iwas supposed to come but was not there. I . Istated that he had recently come from Afghanistan and that BIN LADIN was calling all Mujahadeen to return to Afghanistan. OOEH talked to I I alone, telling him that n'fr-wou.ld relocate to Afghanistan '"---.. because it was at> Islamic country and it would be his -duty to return. OOEH toldl '^:that he would try to get as,.many passports as he could. However, 1 l:enly wanted OOEH id get. one passport. After that, OOEH returned to wTui':'fof:;.wprk and to wait for hie Jordanian passport to be renewed. OOEH also ^'slded...... I I to Kelp get him a Kenyan passport. Again OOEH related the story t h a t r I c a m e to visit ItmlnWitg (April 1998) with a message frorrj \that BIN LADIN had called for us to return ta Afghanistan, especially AL QAEDA and Mujahadeen.

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'9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy OOEH talked tol tabout BUI TAD1Ndeclaring war against American people in his last two fatwas. They discussed if AL QAEDA was right in doing this, they were concerned if they were ready to face such an enemy. I Istated that the Hujahadeen in Sudan were against attacking U.S. targets. They feared that the U.S. was too powerful. Even AL QAEDA in Afghanistan was questioning BIN LADIN but they still wanted to be ready to back up BIN LAOlN's fatwa. They were not happy about BIN LADtN's first fatwa from one and a half years ago because BIN LADIN was all alone. .,=="""' ...f:as a good friend OOEH further described |_ who enjoys talking about philosophy, has a similar mind set as himself, is stoic and not very sociable. , .. Jcame to OOEH stated thatL visit him in Witu about 40 days before ODEH's travel date to give him two messages from^^^^ ^he first message was about L^_^_T I Ifrom Somalia wanting to see BIN LADIN. The second message was regarding the latest fatwa from BIN LADIN and how BIN LADIN got other Islamic terrorist groups to join the front against the

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Working Copy American people and because of this they all have to travel to see BIM LADIN. | [stated that he would return to Afghanistan to help people in agriculture which is his field of study. I I had no travel documents but would.travel even if it meant getting fake ones. I I told OOEH to travel ASAP even if he didn't have correct documents. OOEH stated that he became anxious to get his affairs in order before leaving, OOEH wanted an.additional 10 days because his wife was now in Mombasa with her family. After | Heft, OOEH remained in Witu for ZO days and left on July 13 for Mombasa. ODEH slept in the town of Marindi tha.t night and . arrived in Mombasa on July 14. On that day, he tried to .locate r~"~*\ilLHont)asa. OOEH located 1 \JnOld Town, Mombasa, and. asked\1 if he needed to travel. [ l told him to try and get good documents. '|__|:;St.r 11 didn't explain what the rush was for traveling. ODEH apologized toi \r being late arid:ttasn asked I ~~\ money in order to get travel documents, I | directed ODEH to go and find I lwha..o.wns a shop in Mombasa. OOEH explained that he couldn't findI ZlbeeauseJ t-wgs...iii Tanzania buying clothes to sell in his shop. ODEH waited for a few days, then went to another friend calledl I at the Amani Mosque where OOEH used to pray. / Igave ODEH 6500 shillings and OOEH told| [that \d pay him baclc. 1 1 descent. He was in Afghanistan and owns a small trucking business. ODEH stated that he saw|__-Jthreei days later regarding his travel documents. They also talked about Kenya becauseF tcomplained that he can no longer-remain in Mombasa because he is bored, lonely and misses; tifs wife and it-Hs a non-Islamic area. ODEH recattcd that three days before August 1, he tried to meet I Tait the mosque but | "| never showed Up. '..Oh August 1 he..B3ain arranged to meet| fat the mos^i-ie but;:igain I [didn't show. ODEH left the mosque, then returned because he forgot his umbrella, and met I .--•"' r^Jaho were looking , for ODEH. ODEH stated that he had hoped the trip was canceled so that he could return to Witu. F 1 totd OOEK that other people were traveling and that! /was scheduled to travel today , (August 1, 1998)-to Afghanistan. They told ODEH that \1 was looking for him to give.htin money to travel. At this point, I I was shouting at OOEH in the street that h^, must travel. ODEH told I Tthat he has no papers. I I stated he had a passport for ODEH and that he (ODEH) only had to get a picture.

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Within an hour, OOEH loeatedl j.at his home at the time of evening prayers. I igave OOEH tl.OOOv.f 1'told OOEH that| ~|ordered him to travel tociay, \H he thinks something is going to happen very soon,; that is whythey had to rush. I tstated that\s traveivng.with jto[Nairobi, and that Sheik\h them. would be traveling

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came with I I on. a motor bike. WhenCZ^|]-Masi,alone, he asked him about the passport. I leave--::;,.. ODEH an expired passport with' 'IB^^^^^M ;

someone else's picture. There was no vis>"f«r:,Pakistan. I \ told ODEH he would get a visa, renew the passport and buy the airline ticket. OOEH aave I 1*400. The next day was Sunday, August 2, and everything was closed including the immigration office. They could not get a visa until Monday, August 3rd. ODEH then decided to take advantage of this and left Mombasa on Sunday, August 2, to go to Marindi to see his wife's aunt to settle some furniture business. While there.<.-OOEH get -an -angry phone call *r«y ~luag looking for ODEH. / / told ODEH thatt___/was traveling today to Nairobi and he wanted to see ODEH before he traveled. OOEH complied and traveled to Mombasa by bus and made arrangements to meet/-•"""/ at the bus stop at 7:30 p.m but didn't .actually arrive until 9:00 p.m. OOEH tried to find I rbut couldn't, and found that SALEH had.--"'"" traveled. OOEH returned to hi si istetfp. On Monday, August 3,1 I picked up ODEH at 7rOQ. a.m. in a white Toyota Corolla. They went to the Immigration Service .. to get a visa for Pakistan. ODEH asked I H to pick up, tfie..visa, while OOEH went back to hi a I il-'n mat:e arrangements for his wife and child to live with him in Mombasa. .|;> |tater met ODEH there and they both went tobuy airline tickets on PIA from Nairobi to Karachi. OOEH and| I purchased the tickets from the EAGLE TRAVEL AGENCY. I | tnirf nnFH that he had to travel that day to follow SALEK to Nairobi. ODEH then purchased a bus ticket to Nairobi. I I remained behind while ODEH traveled alone all night to arrive at Nairobi at 7:00 a.m. on Tuesday, August 4. I Istatcd that he had something to do and

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At about 4:00 p.m.. I ~ returned ..to the hotel. They talked about shopping and what..they b^gghfl' ODEH believes that/ | was not or would not b^tfa'veling. That evening.* I left withf .. ^Jand they stayed away all night. ODEH was talking withC___|that evening and spVnt the night ln| "Iroom. They talked about an article..in a magazine called MAJALLA about Islamic Egyptian radicals wanted by Egyptian authorities.. They wondered if I I woml
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Mould leave the next day. I lhad given ODEH the address of the Hilltop Hotel and told him to meetI 1there. ODEH checked into room 1028. ODEH stated that there Were no telephones in the room and the only phones were at reception arid-9 public phone in the lobby. After checking in, ODEH saw I las they were leaving. I I gave ODEH a pair of pants and a shaver.. (razor) in order for 00EH to shave his beard. This was done in order to conceal OOEK being a Muslim while he traveled. ODER actually shaved the next day. I I stated that they were on their way out to do a small job. OOEK then went to sleep, woke up around noon and then went to check on I I I | uho.uog elppninn inl "T-Foom. OOEH at first did not recognizeI I but then recognized him as the.trainer in explosives/mines from the I |:i«;:Afghanis,tah::and from Iris time in Somalia. ODEH stated that he was not surprised to see I I surprised to see him. OOEH stated that -they were both AL QAEDA and were traveling on BIN Jhad been Hving LADIN orders back to Afghanistan. |_ at the Hilltop Hotel for the past two months. He left Mombasa because he was too tempted by the Arabian women living there, according to ODEH. I has to'travel on August 6th.

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a cheap jacket. ODEH stated that I I were out all night of August 5th into the 6th. ODEH believes that \nOnthe the morning of to sleep or spend the night atP f who just August 6th, ODEH sa Iwer arrived from ere staying in

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another hotel close to the Hilltop, approximately 50 meters away on the same side of the street. 1^-^-1 returned-vittHl-a*about 9:00 a.m. I I was happy, which vas in contrast to'"the"" way he had been behaving the past few days. I tseemed"normal and happy. Both were wearing the same clothes fraj..the day before. Nobody said what they had been doing all night, then told I 1 to help him with papers and they left.

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OOEH stated that he concluded that the bomb was built V house in Hairobi. He assumes that it could have been at ^ who were in Nairobi for a while. built Ut by|_ OOEH was asked if he had any knowledge on how explosives could be snuggled into Kenya. OOEH stated that hypothetically speaking, a good way would be to put explosives in

OOEH also spoke of his knowledge and training regarding the logistics of carrying out a terrorist operation. OOEH stated that in order to attack a target you must have two groups. The first group does the intelligence work, such as procuring supplies, doing surveillances, vehicles, planning, etc. The first group would try to determine weaknesses in the target; they may test the target by sending someone in to determine the security. Also, they must determine the material used in the construction of the target to determine the amount and type of explosives. ODEH stated that if a physical surveillance is too obvious, then the first group may surveil the target byF I T h e second group are the ones who carry out the attack. These people are good Muslims but they are not experts in anything that would have a long-term benefit to the rest of the group. ODEH stated that he did once go by the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi in 1994. ODEH claims that he doesn't know where it is

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located. He stated that while looking for the Djibouti Embassy to renew his Jordanian passport, he happened upon the American Embassy and stopped at the gate. OOEH asked the security guard where the Dibouti Embassy was located.

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OOEH stated that the best way to destroy a building is to put the explosives inside the building. This is the most efficient way because the explosive power is in an enclosed area. If this cannot be done, the other option is to get as close to the building as possible. OOEH talked about the friends of AL QAEDA as being different than AL QAEDA members who have made beyat or pledged allegiance to BIN LAD1N. Friends of AL QAEDA support BIN LADIN and his goals but are not formal members of his army. They would assist AL QAEDA in business ventures or operations if they could. Host friends have been Mujahadeen fighters in Afghanistan but some friends may have no military experience. OOEH then provided some names of people considered friends of AL QAEDA. OOEH stated that an individual named/

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Living in Kenya. is also an associate of \ lused to live in Sudan and work with BIN LADIN. As a friend of AL QAEDA, L^J could be used for a variety of things from being involved in social help, humanitarian relief, NGO's to intelligence gathering on related targets./"

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Another AL QAEDA friend is I Ifrom the Pokstan ...-• area by Mombasa. He is a Kenyan national born' in Uganda. He is likely a friend of AL QAEDA based on his Afghan experience. ODEH . was with him during the last Week of July to buy a cassette tape of songs without music on Bashara Street in Mombasa.- r ~^ is also a friend of I 1 ODEH once triedLto talk to j^ about his experiences in Afghanistan but! ~l stated he forgot everything. OOEH described I las a very nervous person who could only be used for very limited roles.. ODEH stated that he last saw

two years ago but

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]had asked about him while at the Hilltop Hotel the night they discussed Majalla magazine. ODEH doubted that I I would be used to carry out such an action. I IMould not agree Kith hitting a target in Kenya because he likes Kenya and wouldn't want to be associated with.jAL QAEDA and bring troubte to himself. I I was cautious and really didn't like to be around .. AL OAEDA. ODEH referred to an individual named I L. an Oman! from Tanzania, i msed to come to Mombasa--and was a friend ofl ~1 An. individual named | [from Tanzania is also a friend of AL QAEDA. T"7"' ... V traveled to Somalia and Afghanistan, and spends a lot of time in Kenya. ODEH recalled someone who came to visltl "} named CH3 an Egypt
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was., in Bar es Salaam because ODEH stated that was working with] |-fh OOEH was calling him there his business. ODEH indicated that tad relocated t;o Bar es Salaam since March/April 1998 to do his) with I "I would travel there frequently-by bus from ^^^^^A ^*^^^^ I use his^^^^™"™"^ --" Mombasa. \H letl car. was good friends with Salaam.

and would visit him in Car es \:

OOEH stated that the last time he was in Somalia (August 1997), he was with / ..-••'' Also there was J_ .. loDEH me to work in the fishing business with two stated that JSnd another. I (stated that he would use men. the fishing business as a cover to support AL QAEDA.

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that time, |___|brought OOEH a small sample of TNT and an electric detonator to ask OOEH to evaluate. I Istated that there was too much TNT available in Tanzania. The THf sample was pale/green with no wrapper. 'OOEH stated that the best TMT is yellow. OOEH stated that if I I located a source of explosives, that information would be important for BIN LAOIN and AL QAEDA to know in case they needed explosives in the.future. Such information would be reported back up the chain of,'camnand in Afghanistan. |__| traveled to Afghanistan one year later. He also tried to go to London but-was sent back to Kenya. OOEH recalled that | [was called by| prom; either Sudan or Afghanistan. OOEH indicated that I Intent ioned to him in recent meetings that he I I was -in contact with I """^find that they were going to change the line. OOEH could riot define vhat that meant. He assumed he meant a telephone line. OOEH stated that if someone were to build a bomb, it would be okay to buiId the bomb long in advance. I

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J OOEH stated that for the Oar es Salaam blast, all the preparation was done in. Tanzania because everything is available there. ODEH denied ever being in Oar es Salaam or Tanzania but indicated thatl H-HP Egyptian was in Oar es Salaam. ODEH stated that the reason he was talking to investigators about these matters was because those people were pushing him and pushing him and then got away, while he is now facing problems.

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OOEH stated that he knew the ABU U8AIOAH who died in the ferry boat accident. He was a different ABU UBA1DAH than the explosives trainer discussed earlier. ODEH last saw UBAIOAH when UBAIOAH came from Sudan to discuss and encourage OOEH to work hard in the fish business that had been set up with the help of

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Jranked .OOEH reported that ABU UBAIDAH and |_ equally as the two. top guys at AL QAEDA. ODEH met UBAIDAH in Mombasa two times and described him as someone who conducted himself in a "top secret" fashion.

OOEH indicated that he had known the individual arrested in Thailand for the World Trade Center bombing. He was very famous in the Hujahadeen and Jihad arena. His name was the Afghani word for "lion." OOEH stated that he once heard several years ago that BIN LAD IN stated that AL QAEDA would strike in Thailand because this individual who was described as a "friend" of AL QAEDA was arrested there. OOEH stated that an individual. I

t a..h.iah-ranking member in AL QAEDA, decided to cooperate, with the Saudi

Arabian authorities. This caused great concern to the point' where there was talk of killing ABU FADEL because he was a spy and forced AL QAEDA to change its operations. ODEH believes that BIN LADIN is no longer wealthy because his money was seized by authori t i esI h ODER

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indicated that BIN LADIN's bank accounts were held.irt-the names

of his friends and that I arrangements.

I knew all the details of these ...

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OOEH was asked if he knewj_ stated that he had only heard of him. Regarding! OOEH stated that that is the name he used to callA did not knowL J

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OOEH stated thatV Jhouse when it was searched. / Somalia used to come to Kenya. business dealings with BIN LADI& in SudanTL I lis AL QAEDA from Qatar. ODEH stated tha'tf--...

I went to look for UBAIDAH after he drowned in a ferry accident to confirm his death. some material he OOEH gave) Jof Somalia. received fro is returning from Afghanistan with a cassette tape of BIN LADIN's fatwa,OOEH gave |^__Jthe tap*', ai letter'and some reports from the Saudi opposition in London. This material was glvervtcrOOEH in Mombasa to deliver it to I hareuod July 30. 1998. ODEH stated that I Iwas still in Mombasa at the .time so he gave the reports and tape back to Jiiacl a car in Kenya.,wh1ch OOEH stated that|_ was delivered from the Emirates. OOEH described the vehicle as a Toyota double cab-pickup truck, white in color with a blue line. OOEH vaguely recalled the plate number as KAG 488 plus one . additional letter at the end .and"knows that it was registered to ~~l :bDEH remembeps: this vehicle,, because ' was stored at his,.residence f.or & while. OOEH figures that took possession of I , 'Icar even though he never saw .it with I at the Hilltop Hotel. OOEH stated that | | Was supposed to drive himself andI \to the airport on August 6, which canceled. OOEH and\ took a taxi to the airport to get the 10:00 p.m. PIA flight to Karachi. OOEH stated that^^^ is a good typist, very clever but jokes too much. He types reports for top AL QAEDA leaders in

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Afghanistan such as| in turn brief BIN LAOIN. | may use the computers at\ print reports, then fax them to Pakistan. The reports are brought by courier to Afghanistan because there is no way to fax It there direct. OOEH has visited! J OOEH further indicated that the reports prepared b y l [ a n d alsol | for AL QAEDA were referred to as the\. ! .

registered in the name|_ of Yemeni descent but is-Kenyan and took care of the cars

I He has a sharp nose, is normally clean shaven and looks Somali. I I has explosives training. OOEH stated that if | | »s-involved-; the bombrousthave tseen bxiiIt at his house in Jgets financial support from Nairobi. services of a Pakistani bank called Habib Bank ank.l

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I is not allowed to make overseas phone calls on behalf of AL QAEDA, onlvl "Tis allowed. He..does, however, have personal contact with Sudan and the Comoros. ODEH remembered some of the code words! ~~|used in his reports:

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ODEH Indicated that |__|*tated he would be going to the Comoros and.-if he couldn't get out,..-he would try to stay in the Somali community in Nairobi to hide. ODEH indicated that I mas capable of building the bomb that blew up the U.S. Embassy. When asked ifj J was better at explosives than ODEH, ODEH stated that [__jwas not.

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On August 6, 1998, while at the Hilltop H o t e l . I I told OOEH that the people in Kandahar have already relocated in order to avoid retaliation from the Americans. OOEH asked I"" i what he meant, to whichl Treferred to the possibility of the U.S. Navy sending in war planes or missiles to retaliate. OOEH stated that he did not pursue or follow up on I "Tstatement.

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OOEH stated t I gave him an"-... identification card for th OOEH used this card that gave him a title to show his wife's family that he was employed. OOEH invitedP l-to the wedding and asked I it or '•r'~\e use of his car. OOEH considered] ... I" I drove OOEH and his wife home after the wedding... OOEH was put in contact with I "lin 1.994 when he first came to Kenya after Somalia. |__[had-been..jn..l<;enya since 19921 I Iws a personal IFvend of BlH..lADI.H..and acted, as an advisor to the younger guys like ODEH,\H stated that I I must knowl

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much and considered him a very close friend and a good Muslim, OOEH was shown a picture of himself taken while in custody. ODEtt was asked if| iwould recognize the picture as that of ODEH. OOEH responded that of course^^^would recognize the picture^::--

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ODEH stated that an individual.namedf" Ivias an....-Egyptian from America, i reave 'training in Afghanistan on matters such as avoiding capture and countering interrogation. HE described I las strong looking, tough, with a shorV beard.. OOEH stated that

talked about an individual named

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ODEH mentioned a person namtidr j whichmeans/^ |.in the Afghan language. I I had his own group-in Jalalabad and is close to BIN LADIM. BIN LADIN announced that he would take revenge for the U.S. incarceration of.!'' T'' OOEH indicated that he has never metf ODEH stated that he took an advanced 40-day explosives course at the Seddiq Camp in Afghanistan. This camp was lead by

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an Egyptian, and AL QAEDA member. OOEH used to practice making explosives and read military manuals from different countries. OOEH.,again spoke of the use of detonators.

J OOEH stated that the amount of explosives that would be needed to attack the U.S. Embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam could not be determined without looking at the Embassy building but that the height of the building would not matter .. much because if the first floor were taken out, the rest of the building would come down. OOEH further stated that it would take at least 600-700 kilos of TNT. OOEH stated that TNT is a safe explosive to handle; it can be set on fire and struck with a hammer without exploding. TNT can be stored safely without a detonator, as compared to dynamite, which deteriorates. OOEH also stated that|

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OOEH explained that for a charge large enough to attack the U.S. Embassies, shaping of the TNT would not be necessary. OOEH also talked about various detonators such as mechanical and electrical. He also has no knowledge of anyone testing .... explosives outside of Afghanistan or Somalia. .... OOEH stated that) individual named| the manager.

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was in Somalia and headed by an and another n»renn_.

OOEH stated that he test sawj^ ~ [jn late 199? at the 3-'"'n Afghanistan. In the camp! | was knowVi as ABU L an Egyptian, was well trained and proficient in L martial arts. OOEH was angry and disappointed at the performance of the AL QAEDA cell leader I I OOEH stated that if they couldn't get the pick-up truck into the garage of the embassy, then the occupants of the truck must die trying. They should not have left the truck there to explode and kill so many people. OOEH stated that nobody, even BIN LADIN himself, could be happy with the results of the bombing. OOEH stated that the operation conducted against Khobar was 100 times better than Nairobi. OOEH further stated that the position of the pick-up

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ODEH stated thatl ~ of AL QAEDA. His real name is]

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SALEH went to Afghanistan about eight years ago and joins AL _...-••" QAEDA. He received training and relocated to BIN LADIK's headquarters in Khartoum. In 1993, he went to Somalia at BIN LADIN's request and winded up in Mogadishu. He returned to Sudan, for a time and then went to Afghanistan-and was then sent to Kenya approximately ten months ago. While in Khartoum, he was involved in obtaining counterfeit rubber stamps for passport type fraud. He is close to BIN LADIN and would arrange travel for people. I lhas been to Tanzania and his .family remains in Afghanistan. ,• . • OOEH stated that I 1 has lived in Mombasa at leas.t six months. In March of 1998, ODEH cat'LedP" \from his home in Witu for business. AHMED stated that [ I was here and, that ODEH should come to see I I ODEH agreed but met I _Jhouse in Marindi. This meeting was about going back to Afghanistan to live for cultural and religious reasons. Three months later, ' '«•« tell ODEH to emphasize the move to Afghanistan. ODEH was told to get documents in order to travel. ODEH resisted because he

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Working Copy wished to remain in Kenya and had trouble getting good documents. About 40 days before the travel date (August 6, 1998).! Tgave OOEH a message in I I to hurry up and get documents. for travel, even if they are fake. OOEH stated that all AL QAEDA members had recently been summoned to Afghanistan but that there was a member in London whose last name was I I ODEH indicated that I I is associated with an organization . whose name he pronounced in Arabic which included the words "~~^~~~~~^^~^^~I -. goEd took 2Q ,jays..to close his furniture business in Witu and move his *tife and chiltf to I \n Mombasa. Around July 15, 1998, in Mombasa, ODEH saw\ and'they calmly discuss ways of "getting travel ... documents. I I was ri&t Bortravino this as an emergency situation. Two or three daVs later.1 ""Itold ODEH that he expected to leave Kenya very soon. On o> about Ju\ 25, 1998, ODEH gave|___.l • letter from! ~1 of Somalia, who was returning from Afghanistan, this letter was from BIN 1AOIN and other top people to) | the letter was addressed refers to "the state of Allah. L read the letter in front of ODEH and commented that this was nothing new.

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The next scheduled meeting withl I didn't occur because they migsed..each, other. They next meet on August 1, in Mombasa. I [stated thatl \was traveling that de»y..«nd that \s looking for ODEH. I T was excited and ordered ODEH to travel. OOEH told I 1 he couldn't travel without documents. \d he would get OOEH a passport and for OQEH to get a photo. 1 I told ODEH..to-g6^ findT ^fce.ca'yse he had the money OOEH would need for travel, nncu.«rii I »^rf received $400. out of $1000 avai lable. ..OOEH inadearrangefwnjs for I I to come to his brother-inrlaW's at 6:30. I Isaid there is an emergency situation that is goirtgi. to occur.. At 9:QO- .. p.m., ODEH metf"~~j a\.ong withT j ODEH talked to/ ... \ alone nnd\ that there was an emer.gerx:y and..everyone . must travel. He gaves OOEH the passport that is expired. OOEH gave $400 to I I and returned the passport back. I Iwi11 get the entry visa to Kenya and update the passport. This was the last time he saul Ifn Mombasa. P"""

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on August 4, at the Hilltop Hotel. OOEH next saw ODEH had received his passport back fromQ Jgave OOEH

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pants, shaver and socks. OOEH fell asleep in I [room. OOEH stated that I Iwas doing a prayer that indicated he was. afraid and worried. They were also looking at the magazine article about the wanted Egyptian brothers. . [eating On August 5th, OOEH sawf breakfast at 7:30 a.m. i"\" 1 at the hotel. I OOEH to wait Ttold \return later with They took lunch at the hotel. |_ were out all night and returned to the HU.ltop on the morning of August 6th. OOEH thinks that | | house all night. Upon their return.) Iwas happy.I luas noriiiat and .| they were wearing the same1clothes. Nobody said what they were doing all night. [_ Jto help him with papers. OOEH concluded at time of interview that the boot was built at house. He assumes that it could have been built by I I ndl l-whiy:were::?h::>ft4Pobi:::for::soBie::tifl>e. OOEH stated that at the time he didn't think something was going to happen in Kenya because he is not being consulted or informed.

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had been in Nairobi, Kenya, for three believes thatj months. OOEH first met[ | in the beginning, of"V992 in Afghanistan at an explosives course. This course was 40 days in ..--••' Itiae the instructor atduration and was advanced, and[ the I_^^^_^_ •He--tau^t--t^e-%i»uriS'e'*th''nTnesl'''siPe:fj^Eie^''9nd''hou to set charges for TNT and C-4. I Itauoht this course with | | "After the course, OOEH left the "camp and went to Somalia. OOEH later met! I in .Somalia in the town of Horihan in 1993.

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Somalia and was on his way to Mogadishu but was in Horihan for approximately one week. OOEH further stated that I 1 could have traveled to Oar es Salaam to construct the bomb before he sawi Hri Nairobi during the first week of August. When asked about Dar es Salaam, OOEH denied ever being there or in Tanzania. OOEH stated that when he went to Somalia in late 1997 he told his family and friends that he went to Dar es Salaam to conceal his movements. In addition, ODEH stated

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Jwas at the Hilltop The next time OOEH sawL Hotel in Nairobi, Kenya. OOEH was on his way to room and \When OOEH walked into the room, he thought it was' saw that it wa | knew that ODEtt. was . around but ODEH didn't know that\) I ODEH Twas in the thatgroup they were happy to see .each other. h stated

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that M0ar es Salaam" means Muslim land and that is how he thought of Somalia.

J kriow..each other longer than OOEH knows them both. ODEH indicated I-*« a member of AL QAEDA and was with BIN LADIN in Sudan. ODEH met I I later in the day for prayer and lunch and were later joined by i«t about 4:00 p.m. OOEH stated that hdbody in the group discussed the upcoming.emergency travel because it was assumed that everybody knew i t was an emergency and that no further questions were required. | """•--l.ieft the. hotel while OOEH stayed behind with\d I Idid not return to the hotel until the following day, August 5th. ODEH observed that I l:»as favi:hg::bmkfast :withf [ was hot p'resent. After breakfas left the hotel. ODEH asked if there was anything he could do, to which] [responded for him to stay in the hotel and wait for\| ODEH stated that I I returned to

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the hn»»l aft»r\ had already returned at

approximately 1:30 p.m. All four had lunch together .and discussed normal everyday events until approxiliiately 4:3p.-p-:C, when they all participated in afternoon prayers....- oOEH stated that I I went to call I ..l-fh" Mombasa -to as4c where. he was and why he was late in getting to.Nairobi. ODEH reports thati ~tstay out al.L nfght and return.the next day, August 6th, to the HilltopHbtel. OOEH remained at the hotel with| [alone until approximately 9:30 p,m; They were looking at a magazine called Hajalla that had.pictures of twelve people wanted by the Egyptian authorities- They thought that AL QAEDA leader I Iwould be one of them. OOEH stated ttrtt he went to bed at approximately ?:30 p.m. and I I remained in his room. The following morning at approximately 7:00 a.m.,, ODEH saw I I and asked him about fTt>einQ out of .the land hotel all night. Then,.at approximately 8:30 a.m.,I [arrived at the hotel from Mombasa. '

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Working Copy I used to reside in Mombasa OOEH stated that) coqld not resist but could not stay there becausel the Arabic women in that town, so to fight temptation he relocated to Nairobi. OOEH stated that at about that time, andl ""Ireturned to the hotel and that now there were a total of six people scheduled to travel that day to Afghanistan at the hotel at about 9:30 a.iti...l~~ l-f rom Tanzania came to meet them at the Hilltop to take, a bath because the water was not working at their hotel, which was approximately 50 meters away on 3went upstairs to his..room the same block. OOEH andl to iron a shirt. At approximately 12:30 J t started to get ready'for. Ltraveling. acquired false documents from I I gave 500 U.S. dollars to every person that would.be traveling that day. I ~lstated that the cash was to bribe officials in case they were stopped and for other miscellaneous expenses. I jleft for the airport at that time to catch a 3:00 p.m. Kenyan Air flight to Karachi. -

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OOEH describes|

lOOEH was at\e the day before he (OOEH) traveled to Mairobi.\d at the H HI top Hotel on August 6th and traveled with ODEH on Pakistani International Airway* flight to Karachi. I I made -Tt" through the checkpoint and is currently in Afghanistan." ODEH stated that he used to see\

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I since the beginning of 1996. OOtH stated that

sajd;:tha not encourage ODEH to get to knoVi I ~ was In Afghanistan and had some information regarding ODEH, I ...--' ' T*tated that I I knew that they. Here in Afghanistan and knew the nicknames of OOEti.l [ I Ididn't like the fact that ^^^knew so much about them . and thought that this could eventually lead to trouble. received training in Afghanistan after trying ta get training in the Sudan and Yemen. OOEH stated that| ]was a young person

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searching for Jihad and even paid for his own travels, took an advanced explosives course that cost approximately 6,000 U.S. dollars while in Afghanistan. ODEH described this course as very comprehensive and that it was approximately 60 days in duration. After the course, I Icame back to Kenya. I I came to OOEH's house to inquire about groing to Bosnia. OOEH told, him that they have no people in Bosnia and that, he could not help him. I I thought that ODEH could help him in this.matter because his friendr* i stated that he f ^.coutd help, but FAHAD was not able to fInd].... • ... \at the time. ODEtt .stated that he didn't like the fact that 1 Vvould ask such questions, without knowing him well. : ::":i "! ODEH stated that he would occasionally seel Jin Mombasa in the company of^^^^^J.....OO.E.H reported that in August of 1996,L._3 approach&d him with a sample of TNT <3!!x3" square) and a detonator. |__| stated, that "Ke acquired. .thei TNT in Tanzania and asked ODEH for his opinion. OOEH stated that! I was attempting to show that he was a Mujahadeen and that he was committed to Jihad, i I actually had more training in explosives than ODEH and probably was not looking for technical. advice from OOEH. ODEH described I las very hot-blooded arid extremely anxious to join a Jihad operation and see some action. I I was disappointed that ODEH was not enthusiastic about his sample of TNT. Some weeks later,] J brought an English book on explosives for ODEH to see. F^........Fwanted to know if. .he could use this book tojielp with Jihad and Hujahadeen. OOEli used to the Has j id Ali in Mombasa- -with .--"" was in the trucking business, arid I lused to drive Y&r him. ODEH also observed/ I staying with an individual namgdf~ ..-.-.t:'.--' • f . •I ...-"' ...;:•• (not the saroey I previously discussed), who was in th.e::cinder block business. ODEH stated that this latter |~~"|:ttent to Afghanistan three months ago and is a friend of AL QAEDA. OOEH recalled that in the latter part of 1996.. I ' [went to Afghanistan to stay at a camp. CZZZ] stayed one month, while ( remained in Afghanistan for over one year and returned to ,. Kenya in late 1997. OOEK stated that he s a w j t i n Mombasa in December 1997. I to is a member of AL QAEDA and was an acquire a passport associate of After OOEH relocated to the town of Witu, he had

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from Uitu in order to give a message to/ ybecause ODEH could not contact him, ODEH stated L that the message was about owing him 2,000 shillings. ODEH stated that the next time he saw Iwas on July 15, 1998, in Mombasa. |__|came to,his brother-in-law?* house in Mombasa to tell ODEH that if he ted to sgp I \. :^imH help. ODEH went to look for the..previous day but .couttin/.t: find him and left a message wi e, for| in touch with OOEH. ODEH both went to seel contact with

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When'ttiey-asrrived atj

location, I told to Walt, in the car and 'returned to tell ODEH that I | said the area was too., busy and for Iviifrno.t to come to see him a' moment. I jdjdh't want ODEH to be seen by| ~| hous 'EH stated that I Tnow .seemed to bg at a higher level wi ftfie ALQAEDA cell than ODEH. ODEH .!" believed that I ~~l :ome close to I l-bccausgi "*l.u»e in Afghanistan for a year. I l-oave a message fb'f"OOEH..to the next t the...f.ootbaU court. obEH"si:ated-that [then traveled t«?%ar es Salaam, Tanzania, two days later... and stayed there for one week. Upon/ | r'e'furn""to"Hciiitoasav 1"^*^^^ ^^«J r^^^*~

I I gave a-letter to-OPEH from^7—rJ regarding -QOEtt going back to Uitu. l l wanted 'to see COEH'before"Bb'EH" returned to Witu. ODEH stated that the next time he saw | lMasi;ofi;i;^;: August 1, 1998, in the company of I l:::-OPgH::sfated that this was the time wheni "'Iwas extremely excited and was yelliria at him that he must prepare for emergency travel. OOEH-Stated ..that he did not like being yelled at in front.-qf 1 ... Mater contacted OOEH in Marindi by phone and tolcl.OOEH to come\back to Mombasa to see I tbefore he traveled on to Nairobi. On August 2nd, ODEH traveled back to. Monfcasa to meet I I at a bus stop but did flot meet them. On the following morning, August 3rd.I Tcame to ODEH's house with ODEH's passport and stated that they must go to the immigration office to get a visa. OOEH stated that after that day, the next time he saw I 1 was in Nairobi. ODEH stated ttiat(_ resided in the town of Marindi and was originally from al

J OOEH has known AHMED since 1992, when

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they met in training camp in Afghanistan. | I at the Camp. C^3.was .an instructor in the use of PKM machine guns. He is a member of AL QAEDA and made beyat a long time-before ODEH. I__Jknows tlSAMArBIN tAt»N personalty. ODEH later savr i i at i-ht» l~ "t.":ah"»re-:Beruas also an instructor, and then at the I t where tTw'as a student in explosives with OOEH. They were together in Somalia in the town, at Morihan. OOEH stated that \never went to Mogadishu. AHMED also knows and has met with I when he visited the camp in Somalia. After Somalia, they both traveled to Kenya together and they.both wanted to find women to marry. I I itiarripH nf tor tun::mnrifh-; and then relocated to Khartoum, Sudan. CZH^as' working in USAMA BIN LADIN's business in the field 6f agriculture, I' ' ' 1 was working with finances and selling agricultural products. i i remained in the Sudan for one year and'caiiie 'to-ICenya in early 1996 to tfie town of Marindi. .ODt-H Stated that he ran into I tbv accident in Harindi-.t '.-- is'tarted a business of buying and selling clothes and was- doing..okay. About 40 days prior to , OOEH travel ing.. I --" (came to see him in Witu to give a,.message , from I It'b get ready for travel, even if ODEH has- to get fake documents. I I has more authority than ODEH in AL QAEDA ' . - , because he is older. ODEH stated that the next time he'saw I ^ was on July 30 or 31 at| ,.-•' ..-• ..-• .,-' | Mombasa. The message from I Iwas 'thatl jmusj: travel , before Sunday, August Znd. 1 A was told bvV''~-'^~l that if .he didn't come by August Znd tliat he should not ..bother coning at all. That was the last .time that. ODEH, iawf J left Kenya on August 1st with! .-•' .-•' S

OOEH stated thitI ' towns the house that I I rented in Mombasa butj | actually lives in the town of Marindi. i i tnlri ODEH that .if he comes to Mombasa, he would put OOEH in contact

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OOEH stated that/" of August uithj 10

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BAHAMAD is a friend of AL QAEDA who has spent

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Jjust took the basic

courses in military instruction and then returned to Kenya. I 1uanted to go to Afghanistan to live because he felt that the religiousatmosphere there was better.A \owns a truck business and I T sometimes drives for him.\s hot ordered to leave Kenya byf• "; lor AL QAEDA. \d to leave because! \e good friends with/ ]but i&:;pnly an acquaintance ofL Kenyan paispor.t and traveled on August 1st "ithl ltd ftfohanistanii: . OOEH stated thatL J born in Egypt and is a member of AL QAEDA. Op.E.H..me.t-tvm-in T992 at the OOEH stated thatj Twas not a student but go with OOEH just came to visit people at the camp. to Somalia and did not travel to Mogadishu. Kenya before OOEH and got married before OOEH.

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married to| J went to the Sudan for approximately six months^4n" intended to early 1995 to work for USAHA BIN LADIN. relocate there but changed his mind and returned to Mombasa,

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where he opened °^ - ; |studied English and computer science and tried to help OOEH in the fish business. OOEH stated that I ItJos in.Oar ... es Salaam, Tanzania, for approximately one and a half months;" before traveling on August 1st. OOEH stated that I . I is in., the import/export business and that I ""Itielps him by ,..-•'' transporting merchandise from Tanzania to Kenya. I hdid not ... use any private trucks from\. "Ifor this venture but used public transportation only.y L-eturned to Mombasa only one or two days before traveling with I .-•'' \to , Afghanistan. I ihas basic explosives training but is well trained in other matters, including topography. OOEH described! TanMnian. OOEH first saw) Jin Hombasa with] approximately one year before in 1997. I l,introducedr~~l as a good person who wag helping him in his business/ \s a contact number for! I while/ [was working in Tanzania. I from Tanzania is / /met through I considered a friend of AL QAEDA. The second time ODEH met)

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is at the Hilltop Hotel. OOEH stated that he was surprised to see him at the Hilltop. SALEH knew that I "l^as traveling with the group. OOEH didn't know if I I had received any training in Afghanistan. I I arrived at the Hilltop Hotel on the 6th .of August and left that day. OOEH stated,, that he did not have much interaction with[ OOEH later stated that in regards to what he totd-.the Pakistani authorities, he had fabricated his involvement in the bomb plot to make the Pakistanis happy. OOEH further stated that the Pakistanis did not use any physical force against him but did state that he was not given sufficient sleep and that he was in the glare of bright lights.

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On Thursday, August 27, 1998, at 4:00 p.m., while on board United States Air Force aircraft (C-ir>, the following occurred: OOEH was given his Advice of Rights in bo.tJi English and Arabic. He acknowledged that he understood his rights and was willing to answer questions. He was told that if he started to answer questions, he may stop at any time. ODEH was shown a picture of I I 'ODEH studied the picture carefully. ODEH stated that the picture was not familiar to him and that he might look more familiar if he had a heavier beard. ODEH and investigating agent used a black magic marker to fill in the subject's goatee to make a heavier beard. Upon completion, OOEH still indicated that he did not recognize the individual. ODEH was never told the name of the individual or where he w^s from, and was asked if he ever saw him in Afghanistan or any other country that he may have visited. OOEH responded that he had never seen the individual in the picture. The interview was concluded at 4:10 p.m.

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