T5 B3 Perez Jose Fdr- Entire Contents- Withdrawal Notice- Letters- Notes- Questions- Emails- Memos- Testimony (1st Pg For Reference) 124

WITHDRAWAL NOTICE RG: 148 Box: 00002 Series: Copies: 1

Folder: 0001 Document: 6 9/11 Commission Team 5 Pages: 35 ACCESS RESTRICTED

The item identified below has been withdrawn from this file: Folder Title: Melendez-Perez, Jose Document Date: Document Type: Memorandum From: To:

Subject:

In the review of this file this item was removed because access to it is restricted. Restrictions on records in the National Archives are stated in general and specific record >^\r group restriction statements which are available examination. 9/; ulv^;',:: ;

NND: 46009 Withdrawn: 04-28-2007

by:

RETRIEVAL #: 46009 00002 0001 6

JOSE MELENDEZ-PEREZ Nov. 12, 2003 Background. Kahtani. On August 4, 2001. "Why referred. "Description of Kahtani. "How did you communicate with Kahtani. •'Describe the interview. •Retrieve pocket litter? -Take photo and fingerprints. Who received those? •What was your impression of Kahtani 's true intent for coming to US. •^Did you ever check databases for information during interview? Lookouts? NIIS? / *Did you look at travel documents to see if indications for fraud? "What did your supervisor say when you told him you wanted to remove Kahtani. Describe the process. •^Contact the FBI/JTTF or an INS special agent during the interview. Reaction by Kahtani that removing him. •Who approved removing Kahtani. •Avho paid for ticket home. After August 4, 2001. Who notified about the removal,

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Ever contacted subsequently about Kahtani. By FBI? CIA? JTTF/GTMO To whom were the records sent?

Other aliens removed. Any other incidents of Saudis being removed from Orlando in the summer of 2001. (3 days later similar story from a Saudi, sent him back too) How often have you recommended removal? ^Do your supervisors always agree? Views of Saudis pre-9/11. How did inspectors view Saudis pre 9/11? Ever considered a threat to national security? What about the airlines? Work as an inspector. Training received. Document fraud. Have you ever contacted the FDL? Radical fundamentalism. Technology, c^* c*«-i •*t[l ^j^*-fc»^*What were the biggest problems which a secondary inspector had at a POE pre-9/11? Changes at DHS. What changes do you see on the front line with the new CBP? With the separation from ICE? What is lacking that you really need to be able to do your job better? Familiarity with National Targeting Center. What effect do you think US VISIT will have on entry and the inspection process. Use and value of SEVIS. Adequate access to DOS visa via the Consular Consolidated Database. If you had a message for Commissioner Bonner what would it be?

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U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION Department of Homeland Security Orlando International Airport, 9076 Binnacle Way, Orlando, FL 32827

Testimony for the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States Jose E. Melendez-Perez CBP Inspector (March 2003 to current) INS Inspector (1992-February 2003) Background I am a 26 year honorable veteran of the U.S. Army and am currently on my 12th year as an immigration inspector, now working for Customs and Border Protection under the Department of Homeland Security. I began my career with the Immigration and Naturalization Service in 1992 where I was first assigned to Miami International Airport and subsequently transferred to Orlando International Airport, where I currently work.

My job requires me to know the difference between legitimate travelers to the U.S., and those who are not. This includes potential terrorists. We received terrorist and other types of alerts, such as on document fraud and stolen passports, prior to September 11, but we all consider these alerts in a different light now.

The national security element of my job means that training and experience is important. In my case, training for my job as inspector has been threefold. The first was my 26 years in military service, where I learned effective listening skills, observation of body language, and determination of motives. Second, when I joined the INS, I was required to attend training at the Law Enforcement Training Center where I received approximately (16) hours of training in interview skills, sworn statements, and Vigilance

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document fraud. Third, my experience on the job as Immigration Inspector for the past eleven years has greatly improved my skills in detecting document fraud, observing body language and understanding different cultures, including Saudi nationals, many of whom come with their families via the Orlando International Airport on their way to Disney World. Saudi nationals were held to the same legal standards as everyone else. However, service wide they were treated with more "tact". For example, in order to accommodate the Saudi culture, female Saudis unwilling to unveil were inspected by female inspectors, if available. This remains the case today.

In Orlando, as in any other port, an immigration inspector can only return someone foreign back home, for whatever reason under the Expedited Removal law, if the inspector is to be able to substantiate the recommendation. Supervisors for the most part support inspectors who have enough proof to substantiate removing someone. It is my belief that some supervisors in Orlando and nationwide remain intimidated by complaints from the public, and particularly by Congressional letters, about refusing admission to certain aliens. Because of these complaints, supervisors tend to be wary of supporting the inspector who recommends an adverse action against an alien.

I do not know how often people are removed from the United States, nor can I tell you before 9/11 how many Saudis entered the country or how many were refused. However, I can tell you that according to the records we have in Orlando, approximately ten Saudi nationals have been turned around for various reasons. In regard to the incident on Vigilance

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August 4, 2001 which I am about to talk about, I note that another inspector on duty that day made a comment that I was going to get into trouble for refusing a Saudi national. I replied that I have to do my job, and I cannot do my work with dignity if I base my recommendations on refusals/admissions on someone's nationality.

The primary inspection officer is the first official that an international traveler comes in contact with. The officer's responsibility is to verify the passenger's travel documents for validity, the purpose of their trip, and check entry/exit stamps for past travel history. In addition, inspectors query databases for passengers who maybe on a lookout list for various reasons, (i.e., terrorism, criminal records, outstanding arrest warrants, etc.). Before 9/11, some of the databases available in 2001 were: (a) TECS-Treasury Enforcement Communication System, (b) CIS-INS Central Index System, (c) NAILSNational Automated Index Lookout System.

The Encounter on August 4. 2001

On August 4, 2001,1 was assigned as a secondary inspection officer at the Orlando International Airport. My supervisor alternates inspectors between primary and secondary inspection, and on this day I was assigned to secondary inspection. At approximately 1735 hours, I was assigned the case of a Saudi national who had arrived on Virgin Atlantic #15 from London, Gatwick Airport. As Saudis coming through Orlando to travel to Disney World are common, I had plenty of line experience with Saudis. In Vigilance

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this particular case, the subject was referred to secondary inspection because the primary inspector could not communicate with him and his arrival/departure form (1-94) and Customs Declaration (C-6059B) were not properly completed.

I first queried the subject's name, date of birth, and passport number through the above systems with negative results. Subject's documents appeared to be genuine. A search of subject and his personal belongings were also negative. Subject was enrolled in IDENT and photographed. In addition, a complete set of fingerprints was taken on form FD-249 (red).

Through my INS training and military experience, my first impression of the subject was that he was a young male, well groomed, with short hair, trimmed mustache, black long sleeve shirt, black trousers, black shoes. He was about 5'4", and in impeccable shape, with large shoulders and a thin waist. He had a military appearance. Upon establishing eye contact, he exhibited body language and facial gestures that appeared arrogant. In fact, when I first called his name in the secondary room and matched him with papers, he had a deep staring look like he was looking into my soul. Up to this day, his name gives me goosebumps. No one I ever encountered in two years in Vietnam intimidated me like this subject. Periodically during the course of the interview I found myself having to get up and walk outside the room and return to the questioning.

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I had the impression of the subject that he had knowledge of interview techniques and had military training. Upon my initial review of the subject's paperwork and documents, I noticed that he did not have a return airline ticket or hotel reservations. Upon learning that the subject did not speak English (or at least that is what he wanted us to believe), I contacted an Arabic interpreter from the Department of Justice's interpreter's list.

My first question to the subject (through the interpreter) was why he was not in possession of a return airline ticket. The subject became visibly upset and in an arrogant and threatening manner, which included pointing his finger at my face, stated that he did not know where he was going when he departed the United States. What first came to mind at this point was that this subject was a "hit man". When I was in the Recruiting Command, we received extensive training in questioning techniques. A "hit man" doesn't know where he is going because if he is caught; that way he doesn't have any information to bargain.

The subject then continued, stating that a friend of his was to arrive in the United States at a later date and that his friend knew where he was going. He also stated that his friend would make all the arrangements for the subject's departure. I asked him if he knew when his friend was to arrive in the United States and he responded that he was to arrive in three or four days. I asked him what the purpose of this trip was and how long he wanted to stay. He responded that he would be vacationing and traveling through the United States for six days. At this point, I realized that his story did not Vigilance

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seem plausible. Why would he be vacationing for only six days and spend half of his time waiting for his friend? It became apparent that the subject was being less than truthful concerning his true intentions.

At this time, I again asked him where he was going to stay. He said, "A hotel". I then told him that without knowledge of the English language or a hotel reservation he would have difficulty getting around Orlando. He answered that there was someone waiting for him upstairs. When asked the person's name, he changed his story and said no one was meeting him. He said he was to call someone from his residence that would then contact someone locally to pick him up. I then asked the subject for the person's phone number and he refused to provide it stating that it was, "...none of my business". He stated that it was a personal matter and that he did not see any reason for me to contact that person. The subject was very hostile throughout the entire interview that took approximately 1-1/4 hours.

Subject was in possession of $2,800.00 United States dollars and no credit cards. This amount did not appear sufficient for a six-day vacation plus a hotel room and return ticket since a one-way ticket to Dubai, where he originated from, would cost approximately $2,200.00 USD. When confronted with this fact, he responded that his friend was going to bring him some money. I then asked, "Why would he bring you some money"? He replied, "Because he is a friend". I then asked, "How long have you known this person"? He answered, "Not too long". Vigilance

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At this point, I gave Sll Edwin Bosch a synopsis of the case and explained my suspicions that this individual was malafide, (i.e., that his true intent in coming to the United States was not clear and he appeared very evasive). After presenting the case to Sll Bosch, he felt that Assistant Area Port Director Juan C. Hernandez should be contacted for further instructions. Normally, second line supervisors such as AAPD Hernandez are not contacted in such matters, but because of the facts that we had provided no specific grounds for removal, higher up confirmation was needed. Sll Bosch then proceeded to call the AAPD at home to explain the case and get concurrence for removal. After Sll Bosch presented the facts to AAPD Hernandez, he then asked to speak directly with me.

AAPD Hernandez asked numerous questions concerning the case. I explained that apart from not having a return ticket and possibly not having sufficient funds, the subject appeared to be malafide. I further explained to AAPD Hernandez that when the subject looked at me, I felt a bone chilling cold effect. The bottom line is, "He gave me the creeps". You just had to be present to understand what I am trying to explain. AAPD Hernandez then asked if I had tried to place him under oath. I replied that I had tried to place the subject under oath, but the subject refused to answer my questions. AAPD Hernandez then stated that under Section 235.1 (a) (5) of the Immigration Nationality Act an applicant could be required to state, under oath, any information sought by an Immigration Officer regarding the purpose and intentions of the applicant in seeking Vigilance

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admission to the United States. AAPD Hernandez further stated that he was convinced from what I had stated and my beliefs about the subject that the individual was malafide and should be allowed to withdraw his application or be set up for Expedited Removal.

I then proceeded to advise the subject that he did not appear to be admissible to the United States. He was offered the opportunity to voluntarily withdraw his application for admission. Subject chose to withdraw and signed the 1-275. Along with another immigration inspector, I escorted subject to his departing gate for his removal. Before boarding the aircraft, the subject turned to other inspector and myself and said, in English, something to the effect of, "I'll be back". On August 4, 2001, subject departed foreign via Virgin Atlantic flight 16 to London with connecting flight to Dubai.

On September 11, 2001 while attending a meeting with the Warden at the Central Florida Processing Center (Department of Corrections) concerning the use of their range, a corrections officer came in and advised the Warden of the incident that had just occurred in New York City. As I watched the television, I could not help but think of the two cases I had processed in August concerning Saudi Nationals. I immediately contacted the Orlando Airport (I do not remember which officer I spoke with) but I asked them to look up the cases and contact the FBI agent assigned to the airport.

To the best of my knowledge, immigration officers made copies of this August 4, 2001 incident and provided that paperwork to the FBI. The FBI has never interviewed me. I Vigilance

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do not recall ever speaking with GITMO officials. INS headquarters contacted me once. I have had no other contact with intelligence or law enforcement officials. Outside of legacy INS, the only government contact I have had about this incident came from the September 11 Commission this past fall, from your border team investigating the incident.

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'1/14/04

14:10 FAX 4078254188

INS ORL INSP

ilOOl

FACSIMILE TRANSMITTAL CD 2110-035

Date: 01-14-04

Control Number: Joanne Accolla

Name: Organization:

0 Fax Number:

202-358-3124

Number of Pages (including cover): /

4

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Jose E. Melendez-Perez, CBPO^/^*- ^^T//

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Originating Location:

CBP/Orlando International Airport

Return FAX Number:

(407) 825-4188

Voice Number:

(407) 825-4168

Miss Accolla: Please review attached and if corrections are needed, do not hesitate to let rm \. Thank you and have a great day. CO

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U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION Department of Homeland Security Orlando International Airport, 9076 Binnacle Way, Orlando, FL 32827

January 14, 2004

Janice Kephart-Roberts National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States 301 7th Street, SW Room 5125 Washington, D.C. 20407 Subject: Hearing testimony Ms. Kephart-Roberts: My name is Jose E. Melendez-Perez. I have been employed by the Department of Homeland Security under the United States Customs and Border Protection (CBP) since March 1, 2003. Prior to that, I was employed by the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) from November 15, 1992, to April 30,2003. During my attendance at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, I received approximately sixteen (16) hours of training in interview skills, sworn statements, and document fraud. My experiences on the job as an Immigration Inspector for the past eleven (11) years have greatly improved my skills observing body language and understanding cultural diversity. I am a retired member of the United States Army where I served honorably for over twenty-six (26) years. During my career in the military and while assigned to the U. S. Army Recruiting Command, I had extensive training in interviewing techniques. This required numerous hours of training in effective listening skills, observing body language, and determining a person's needs and/or motivations. Every inspector has received numerous memorandums and alerts in regards to terrorism. It is each inspector's responsibility to keep abreast of this information. The daily musters, along with management and other government agencies, provide us with updated information. The extensive training that I have received from my prior military service along with the INS training from the Federal Law Enforcement Academy has greatly enhanced my ability to conduct interviews, deal with different cultures, and detect document fraud. In Orlando, as in any other port, in order to return someone foreign (home), for whatever reason, you have to be able to substantiate your actions. In regard to Saudi nationals, they were held to the same legal standards as everyone else; however, service-wide they were treated with more "tact". For example, the Saudi culture mandates that the male would only address the inspector. The female, because of their culture, is expected to always wear a veil. This created a problem on the primary line because not all booths are manned with a female inspector. The Saudi females will only show their face to another female. Due to their religious beliefs, they would be referred to either secondary or another female inspector to complete the inspection.

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Supervisors for the most part, generally support inspectors who had enough proof to substantiate removing someone. It is my belief, that some supervisors in Orlando and nationwide became intimidated by complaints from the public and particularly by Congressional letters. Because of these complaints, it can have a negative effect upon their ability to take adverse actions. It is very hard to put a number or say how often people are removed from the United States. Before 9/11 we did not keep a record of how many Saudis entered the country or how many were refused. According to the records we have in Orlando, approximately ten Saudi nationals have been turned around for various reasons. Another inspector on duty made a comment that day that I was going to get into trouble for refusing a Saudi national, but, since we have a job to do we cannot base our refusals/admissions on someone's nationality. The primary inspection officer is the first official that an international traveler comes in contact with. The officer's responsibility is to verify the passenger's travel documents for validity, purpose of trip and check entry/exit stamps for past travel history. In addition, the service database queries passengers who maybe on a lookout list for various reasons, (i.e., terrorism, criminal records, outstanding arrest warrants, etc.). For example, before 9/11 some of the databases available in 2001 were: (a) TECS-Treasury Enforcement Communication System, (b) CIS-INS Central Index System, (c) NAILS-National Automated Index Lookout System. On August 4, 2001, this writer was assigned as a secondary inspection officer at the Orlando International Airport. At approximately 1735 hours, I was assigned the case of a Saudi national who had arrived on Virgin Atlantic flight number 15 from London, Gatwick Airport. The subject had been referred to secondary inspection because the primary inspector could not communicate with him and also subject's arrival/departure form (I-94) and Customs Declaration (C-6059B) were not properly completed. Subject's name, date of birth, and passport number were queried through the above systems with negative results. Subject's documents appeared to be genuine. A search of subject and his personal belongings were also negative. Subject was enrolled in IDENT and photographed. In addition, a complete set of fingerprints was taken on form FD-249 (red). My first impression of the subject was that he was a young male, very well dressed, average height, and with a military appearance. Secondly, upon establishing eye contact, he exhibited body language and facial gestures that appeared arrogant. Through my INS training and military experience, my impression of the subject was that he had knowledge of interview techniques and obvious military training. Upon my initial review of the subject's paperwork and documents, I noticed that he did not have a return airline ticket or hotel reservations. Upon learning that the subject did not speak English (or at least that is what he wanted us to believe), I contacted an Arabic interpreter from the Department of Justice's interpreter's list. My first question to the subject (through the interpreter) was why he was not in possession of a return airline ticket. The subject became visibly upset and in an arrogant and threatening manner, (i.e., pointing his finger to my face), stated that he did not know where he was going when he departed the United States. He further stated that a friend of his was to arrive in the United States at a later date and that his friend knew where he was going. He also stated that his friend would make all the arrangements for the subject's departure. I asked him if he knew when his friend was

to arrive in the United States and he responded that he was to arrive in three or four days. I asked him what the purpose of this trip was and how long he wanted to stay. He responded that he would be vacationing and traveling through the United States for six days. At this point, I realized that his story did not seem plausible. Why would he be vacationing for only six days and spend half of his time waiting for his friend? It became apparent that the subject was being less than truthful concerning his true intentions. At this time, I again asked him where he was going to stay. He said, "A hotel". I then told him that without knowledge of the English language or a hotel reservation he would have difficulty getting around Orlando. He answered that there was someone waiting for him upstairs. When asked the person's name, he changed his story and said no one was meeting him. He said he was to call someone from his residence that would then contact someone locally to pick him up. I then asked the subject for the person's phone number and he refused to provide it stating that it was, "...none of my business". He stated that it was a personal matter and that he did not see any reason for me to contact that person. The subject was very hostile throughout the entire interview that took approximately 1 -1/2 hours. Subject was in possession of $2,800.00 United States dollars and no credit cards. This amount did not appear sufficient for a six-day vacation plus a hotel room and return ticket since a oneway ticket to Dubai, where he originated from, would cost approximately $2,200.00 USD. When confronted with this fact, he responded that his friend was going to bring him some money. I then asked," Why would he bring you some money"? He replied, "Because he is a friend". I then asked, "How long have you known this person"? He answered, "Not too long". At this point, I gave Sll Edwin Bosch a synopsis of the case and explained my suspicions that this individual was malafide, (i.e., that his true intent in coming to the United States was not clear and he appeared very evasive). After presenting the case to Sll Bosch, he felt that Assistant Area Port Director Juan C. Hernandez should be contacted for further instructions. Normally, second line supervisors such as AAPD Hernandez are not contacted in such matters but because of the facts that we had, higher up confirmation was needed. Sll Bosch then proceeded to call the AAPD at home to explain the case and get concurrence for removal. After Sll Bosch presented the facts to AAPD Hernandez, he then asked to speak directly with me. AAPD Hernandez asked numerous questions concerning the case. I explained that apart from not having a return ticket and possibly not having sufficient funds, the subject appeared to be malafide. I further explained to AAPD Hernandez that when the subject looked at me, I felt a bone chilling cold effect. The bottom line is, "He gave me the creeps". You just had to be present to understand what I am trying to explain. AAPD Hernandez then asked if I had tried to place him under oath to which I replied that I had but the subject refused to answer my questions. AAPD Hernandez then stated that under Section 235.1 (a) (5) of the Immigration Nationality Act an applicant could be required to state, under oath, any information sought by an Immigration Officer regarding the purpose and intentions of the applicant in seeking admission to the United States. AAPD Hernandez further stated that he was convinced from what I had stated and my beliefs about the subject that the individual was malafide and should be allowed to withdraw his application or be set up for Expedited Removal. I then proceed to advise the subject that he did not appear to be admissible to the United States and was offered the opportunity to voluntarily withdraw his application for admission. Subject chose to withdraw and signed the I-275. This writer and Immigration Inspector Wong escorted subject to his departing gate. Before boarding the aircraft, the subject turned to II Wong and myself and said, in English, something to the effect of, "I'll be back". On August 4, 2001, subject departed foreign via Virgin Atlantic flight 16 to London with connecting flight to Dubai.

Page 1 of2

Janice Kephart-Roberts From:

Janice Kephart-Roberts

Sent:

Friday, January 02, 2004 3:20 PM

To: I I Subject: FW: hearing testimony

—Original Message— From: Janice Kephart-Roberts Sent: Friday. January 02.2004 1:13 PM I* ' 1 Cc: Team 5 Subject: hearing testimony Mr. Melendez-Perez: Happy New Year. Thanks for your call. In regard to your travel:- On Monday, our assistant Joanne Accolla will call you to coordinate travel. My understanding is that the Commission will pay upfront for the cost of travel and hotel. In regard to your testimony, this is what we'd like covered: 1. your background, including: a. your work in the military where you learned interviewing techniques b. how long with INS, at Orlando and time at Glencoe c. training you received at INS in interviewing, different cultural personalities, document fraud, d. directives you received either oral or in writing re the preventing terrorist entry. 2. culture at Orlando towards admission v. removal in general, and towards Saudis specifically, and the Saudi flights that came into Orlando. Were inspectors who sought removal generally supported by their superiors? Why not? How often are people removed? 3. brief description of the inspection process at Orlando, including database access that was available in 2001. 4. On the August 4, 2001 encounter: Date and time of encounter What flight came in on Why referred to secondary Why referred to you What was his demeanor, size, dress Whether he spoke English And then what you did and when in regard to: Whether you checked databases for previous entries or lookouts Check documents and copy- indicate fraud? Check pocket litter and copy -any indicators? Photograph and fingerprint Obtain back-up help for the interview, eg translator, INS special agents, FBI, FDL The interview: How long the interview Summary of who said what. What made you suspicious. What was your conclusion about the intent of this alien in the US How did you attempt to seek grounds for removal

1/16/2004

Page 2 of2 Final ground of removal requested Approval: Who approved the removal Alien's reaction to the removal How removal occurred, and his words to you upon being placed on the airline

5. your actions on Sept. 11 a. sending file to FBI, and what that file consisted of (A-file with 2ndary report, fingerprint, photo, pocket litter copies, database printouts etc) b. FBI never interviewed c. When GITMO called and summary of conversation d. Other contact with intelligence or law enforcement in re to this removal I think that should do it for now. Let's stay in touch. We'll have some questions about US VISIT and current DHS changes for your Q&A time with the Commissioners, but for now we don't intend to have you present written testimony on those issues. Thanks again so much. Call me if you have any questions. Janice Kephart-Roberts National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States 301 7th Street, SW, Room 5125 Washington, DC 20407 Tel.: 202.401.1705 Fax: 202.358.3124

1/16/2004

TO: Janice Kephart -Roberts FROM: Walt Hempel DATE: January 20, 2004 SUBJECT: Interview with SH Jose Melendez-Perez Last night I spoke with SII Melendez-Perez at| your questions.

| Here are his responses to

Q: Atta and Al Shehhi's January 2001. If a B2 applicant for admission shows an 1-20 upon entry, states that he is going to school and has adjusted his status previously from B2 to Ml, what would you do? (Field manual says if a B2 comes in with a legitimate lack of paperwork for schooling, he may be deferred.) What happens in secondary when you check INS databases and learn that he was an overstay by a month upon his last departure the week prior; he has not adjusted his status to student, rather his application was still pending when he departed; and further that he has completed his schooling. What would you do with these facts? A: In the facts presented in Atta and Al Shehhi's case, SII Melendez-Perez would have refused entry and sent them'back on the next flight. He stated that they would have had to have had an Ml visa issued at AMCON. The 1-539 petition was abandoned when they departed the U.S. They had a B1/B2 visa and they presented an 1-20 and said they were going to school. He did not think they would be deferred as there was no reason for them not to have the proper visa. If an inspector determines that a previous B1/B2 has overstayed their stay, even by a month, Melendez-Perez would cancel the visa and turn the applicant around. Any overstay is a violation and the visa would be cancelled. A copy of the 1-213,1-275 goes to HQ, the AMCON which issued the visa and a copy is retained at the POE. If the applicant wants to return to the U.S., he/she must get a new visa. If AMCON issues a new visa, the inspector would then admit the applicant. The assumption is that if the State Department has the visa cancellation information (1-275) and then issues a new visa, the previous violation is cured. Melendez-Perez also said that with the automated passport reader, the inspector is prompted to enter the visa code, and the computer then tells the primary inspector how much time to give the applicant for admission. If the visa code entered is B1/B2, the primary inspector will be told to give the applicant six months. Q: Hazmi and Midhar's lookouts in August 2001. What would an inspector do if the lookout had appeared at primary? What would an inspector do if the lookout had appeared at primary? What were the procedures in place at secondary? Would the lookout, pre-9/11, have resulted in an expedited removal? What were the other possibilities?- (a waiver at request of law enforcement/intel)

A: All hits are sent to secondary. In secondary the inspection is continued and the information provided by the agency placing the lookout is observed. This may be to proceed with the inspection but notify an agency or it may be to contact the local JTTF to have an agent respond to the airport. It really depends on the information contained in the lookout. hi some cases, expedited removal is an option, however there are time and cost considerations. If the inspection team cannot complete the processing for expedited removal before the plane turns around, the INS(CBP) must then place the applicant in a secure situation, usually a hotel with security on the room until the applicant for admission is placed on a plane. Security must be maintained until the plane carrying the applicant actually leaves. Therefore the 1-275 process is used most often. Q: FBI follow-up on Kahtani? A: None Q: Permitted length of stay? A: Normally B1/B2 visitors will get 6 months even if they request less. The only time that their stay is less then six months is if there are other limiting factors. The usual reason is that the visitor's passport is expiring in less then six months.

Thomas II. Kean CHAIR

DHS INTERVIEW REQUEST NO. 5

Lee 11. Hamilton VICK CHAIR

Richard Ben-Veniste Max Cleland Fred F. Fielding Jamie S. Gorelick

The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (the "Commission") requests interviews with the following Department of Homeland Security personnel during the weeks of October 13, October 20, or October 27, 2003. Please provide a proposed date, time, and location for each interview no later than October 10, 2003. The anticipated length of each of these interviews is three hours.

Slade Gorton John Lehman Timothy J. Roemer James R. Thompson

Philip D. Xelikow EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR

1. 2. 3. 4.

Robert Bach Gustavo de la Vina Gerri Ratliffe Jose Perez Melindez

We anticipate that these interviews will involve the discussion of classified information. The Commission reserves the right to reinterview these individuals based on the results of the requested interviews and the needs of the Commission. September 30, 2003

Daniel Marcus General Counsel

TEL (202) 331-4060 FAX (202) 296-5545 www.9-1 lcommission.gov

Joanne Accolla From: Sent: To: Cc: Subject:

[email protected] Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:08 AM [email protected] [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] DHS interview request no. 5

DHS interview request no 5.doc...

Dan: Attached as a Wor document is DHS interview request no. 5. Please call Janice Kephart-Roberts at 202-401-1705 with any questions about the topics to be covered and to arrange for these interviews. Feel free to call Dan or me as well if any issues arise. Thanks. Steve

Thomas H. Kean CHAIR

December 30, 2003

Lee H Hamilton VICE CHAIR

Richard Ben-Veniste Fred F. Fielding Jamie S. Gorelick Slade Gorton Bob Kerrey John F. Lehman

Mr. Jose Melindez-Perez U.S. Customs and Border Protection Department of Homeland Security Orlando International Airport P.O. Box 620848 Orlando, FL 32862-0848 Dear Mr. Melindez-Perez:

Timothy J. Roemer James R Thompson

Philip D. Zelikow EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR

The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (better known as the 9-11 Commission) will hold a public hearing on January 26-27, 2004, in Washington, DC, on Borders, Transportation, and Managing Risk. You are invited to testify at these proceedings on the second panel— An Incident in Florida—at 11:30 a.m. on January 26. This session will be the first in the Commission's 2004 investigative hearing schedule, which will collectively advance the Commission's efforts to produce an authoritative account of the facts and circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. At this hearing, the Commission would like you to give your complete account of the secondary inspection and removal of a Saudi Arabian national on August 4, 2001, with an explanation of the laws and inspection procedures on which you relied. We ask that you submit comprehensive written testimony and provide your statement via e-mail to Ms. Joanne Accolla at jaccolla(g),9-l lcommission.gov by 9:00 a.m. on January 16. Your full statement will be made part of the record and carefully studied by the Commission. We would also ask that you limit your oral remarks to 10 minutes, so that we may highlight what we expect will be a highly fruitful interchange with you and other members of your panel. All witnesses at this and future Commission hearings will be asked to testify under oath.

TEL (202) 331-4060 FAX (202) 296-5545 www.9-11 rommission.pov

Mr. Jose Melindez-Perez December 30, 2003 Page 2 Please contact Janice Kephart-Roberts at (202) 401-1705 with any questions you may have. We look forward to your participation in this important public forum. With best regards,

Thomas H. Kean Chair

cc:

Lee H. Hamilton Vice Chair

Daniel Levin, U.S. Department of Justice John Mitnick, U.S. Department of Homeland Security

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD Event: Interview with Officer Jose Melindez-Perez Type of Event: Interview Date: November 12, 2003 Special Access Issues: Government Identification Team Number: 5 Location: U.S. Customs Border Patrol Offices, Ronald Reagan Building, Washington, D.C. Participants - Non-Commission: Jose Melindez-Perez Participants - Commission: Janice Kephart-Roberts, Joanne M. Accolla Background: Mr. Melendez-Perez is a US Customs & Border Protection Inspector, Orlando Intl. Airport, Orlando, FL Born in Puerto Rico, 1/2/46; lived in PR until he joined the military in 1964; served until June 30, 1992 with small break in service in 1967; served in Vietnam for 2 years, as first sergeant last rank for recruiting command for 14 or 15 years; served in infantry school, paratrooper in 82nd, and 101st; in Vietnam 1965-19661 went back to Vietnaml969 - 1970. Separate from service June 1991 -joined INS 11/15/92 - started at Miami Intl Airport as an inspector; from there to Glencoe; 18 months later vacancy in Orlando and he moved there 5/24/94 and am presently an inspector; responsibility also include fire arms instructor for program in Orlando for inspectors, investigation, deportation and detention. Served recently TOY for 6 months at Glencoe providing assistance to the fire arms program. Now back at airport doing quarterly fire arms qualification. JKR: How have you split your time between primary and secondary inspections over the years? MP: Assigned by supervisor; basically you spend half and half; alternate between primary and secondary. JKR: What types of flights come in at Orlando Intl Airport

MP: Virgin Atlantic, 3-4 flights; British Airways comes daily; LTU comes (Lufthansa); Martin Air from Amsterdam; Copa from Panama; Air Jamaica from Kingston; and some other flights. JKR: Do you get many Middle Eastern passengers on those flights? MP: Yes we do. Mostly from British Airways; now also on Virgin Atlantic; get mixed in with visa waiver folks. JKR: Let's talk about Mr. Kahtani and 8/4//2001. I see you have the report in front of you. Let's start at beginning - why was he referred to secondary? MP: Because he didn't have a return ticket; and he said to primary inspector that he didn't speak English. JKR: At what point was he referred to you? MP: I was the assigned secondary officer; his passport with instructions of why he was referred to secondary was given to me. JKR: Describe Mr. Kahtani -what he was wearing, etc. MP: He was well groomed; short hair; trimmed mustache; black long sleeve shirt, black trousers, black shoes - well dressed; seemed very sure of himself; looked like a soldier to me; when I first called his name in the secondary room and matched him with papers, he had deep staring look, like he was looking into my soul; and up to this day, when you talk about this guy, gives me goose bumps. I served 2 years in Vietnam and I was never intimated like this man intimated me with his look and his behavior; I had to get up and walk around to go outside to walk around and come back to continue the line of questioning - because of his behavior "if I could grip your heart I would eat" - that's the impression I got from this guy when I was talking to him. JKR: How long did the interview last? MP: Good 2 hours. JKR: How long do they usually last? MP: Depends on documents. Could take 15-20 minutes. This person it was different; because he had good documents. Everything was in order. JKR: How did you communicate with Mr. Kahtani? MP: We had telephone numbers of official translators of all languages which belong to DOJ; I contacted a supervisor and put me in contact with Dr. Shafique(?) (DOJ interpreter).

JKR: Have you worked with him before? MP: I think so, can't be sure; JKR: Standard operating procedure to always have an interpreter if there is an issue of language? MP: If there are no airline reps who speak the language, yes. JKR: So you have had Arab second inspections before? How many Saudi's before him? MP: Don't recall exact numbers; but have had a few of them. JKR: Have you had any training in Saudi culture? MP: No just what you learn in the inspection line. JKR: Have you had training at Glencoe on different cultural personalities and how to deal with them in secondary? MP: Not that I recall. JKR: - Let's go through the interview. MP: Once we established communication with the translator, my concern firs is person's intention. He said 5-6 days to travel in the US. My concern is why you don't have return ticket. He said he didn't have a return ticket because he didn't know where he was going after the US. That automatically threw the line of questioning into new ballpark. What first came to my mind was "hit man" because of my military background, etc. And when I was in the Recruiting Command, we received extensive training in questioning people. I learned questioning techniques. Hit man doesn't know where he is going - because a hit man doesn't know where he is going because if he is caught, he doesn't have information to bargain - first thing came to mind - gut feeling. I said how are you going to get out of US - he said somebody was coming from overseas and that person was going to purchase his ticket because that person knew where he was going. I asked how long you know this person; he said a short time. A friend of yours for a short time is going to purchase a $2000 ticket -1 don't think so. His answers were not adding up. Then he changed the story . Like someone is going to meet me upstairs. If you don't speak to English, no hotel reservation how are you going to get around. He said someone is waiting upstairs. Can I have the person's name? He said then he said no one is waiting. Then he said he was supposed to call home and somebody home was going to contact someone in the US and that person would contact him and pick him up.

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Doesn't sound right. Then he said person was coming from overseas and would be here in 3-4 days. One lie after another. Most interesting thing that got me more involved - was his attitude. He kept talking to speaker phone but never stopped looking into my eyes. Then he started pointing his finger; then whatever he was saying was in a loud voice - like I am in charge - you are not going to anything to me I am from Saudi Arabia. We have these people form SA that they thing we have to lay out the red carpet - their untouchables we have to let them in the US - Like I mentioned I have to take a few minutes break outside - He gave me the feeling like "he was in charge" - people from Saudi think they are untouchable -1 had to stop and take break because I was intimated from this guy. When I realized this was going no where - even the interpreter said Inspector something here doesn't add up. He said he had $2800 but no credit card; one way ticket from Dubai cost approx. $2200 so he had $600 left. Had gut feeling that he came for something that is no good; put him under oath. Take a sworn statement. Then asked first question - what is your intention to visit. He said I don't want to answer your questions. At this time I knew we didn't want him in the US; totally convinced that he was inadmissible and no intention to admit - would fight it all the way. My supervisor Edwin Bosh - worked with him whole time I have been in Orlando - had no objection whatsoever I will back you up. He asked are you sure - he's from Saudi Arabia? -1 said 250% . That's mentality = have to have facts straight - if we do something that is not right - and we are wrong - they will go back to embassy and will start big fight and they well come back. Has happed from people form UK Columbia, Venezuela. That mentality has to be fixed. Inspector doesn't have authority; it's up to supervisor. Have seen incidents that supervisors have made wrong decision and have gotten into trouble. You make decision on what you have in front of you. JKR: What were your grounds MP: Lying during initial interview; he said he would refuse to answer under oath; so charged him with 7A (intention to live in US) did not have 6C (bad documents); could apply when you lie - presenting facts that were not true.- but I didn't want to go that route. I wanted to stop him. Mr. Bosch went along with that called Mr. Juan Hernandez, port director. He asked who is inspector. When he knew it was me, he said whatever he said. We can be 200% safe in this country if inspectors established their creditability. If you refer people to secondary for no reason . . . . (gave example) listen to tape). Creditability becomes questionable. When this person get from primary to secondary, because you did

not make the right decision in primary. Credibility you establish very important. In this case fortunate, I always try to do my best - when I make a decision, it will have to be the best decision for the service even for a person from Saudi Arabia. JKR: Did you get pocket litter MP: No pocket litter; just US dollars. JKR: His size? MP: About 5' 3" to 5'5" - well taken care of. JKR: You did take his photo and fingerprints; MP: We took them. JKR: Did that get forward anywhere else MP: No stayed in report. Original file to Miami and copy sent to embassy where visa was issued. JKR: You never heard anything back on this gentleman MP: No JKR: Did you check any databases during the interview MP: Yes we had to do thatJKR: Check him on NCIC MP: We check NICE, NCIC = no entries into US - CIS, NAILS, LOOKOUTs JKR: Travel documents were clean MP: Yes JKR: Do you recall - how clean was passport MP: If I recall passport was new; visa was issued in July 14, 2001 in Riyadh. JKR:- Do you recall seeing any other stamps MP: No . If we have passport we make copies of entry page and JKR: What was explanation to supervisor why you excluded Kahtani

MP: Because he was changing his story; answers didn't make sense; demeanor When you don't have anything to hide, you conduct yourself in professional manner. He made me believe there was something he was not telling me. The intimidation portion was to get me to admit him. He was slim, trim - thin waste but big chest - impeccable shape. JKR: Did you ever contact the local JTTF or another INS special agent. MP: Did not JKR: Have you ever contacted local JTTF during course of interviews? MP: This was before 9-11, mentality was different. Remember this is something very rare especially Orlando Intl.. Normally people who come from SA, they come with family to go to Disney World. One flight from Riyadh - 3 or 4 time during week; but first goes to NY and then Orlando. JKR: During summer months, do get Saudi flights. MP: This guy came on Virgin Atlantic. This happened on Saturday. Other guy came on Tuesday the following week from Saudi Arabia. JKR: INS special agents - do you ever call them MP: No JKR: Tell us how Kahtani reacted when you told him no. MP: He got very upset and he told me I was going to pay for his plane ticket; I said fine we have to wait until tomorrow so we are going to put you in jail. He knew it was over. He decided to pay for his own plane ticket. The airline came -Virgin Atlantic - to get him a ticket. MP: He has to go back to wherever he came from. JKR: You wrote up your report MP: The next day. JKR: Do you always write up secondary report? MP: yes, went into more detail with this guy was to justify my actions so report reflected where I was coming from; report is part of the file - A File - sent to A File control office

in Miami; then one copy for court; one copy of certain documents sent to embassy (US embassy in Riyadh). We mail it through . . JKR: What if he came from Jeddah? MP: It would go to whoever issued visa. JKR: No contact with Saudi embassy in US? MP: No JKR: Keep a copy at port?? And send A file to district Miami office? MP: that's correct. JKR: No interest in this gentleman until after 9-11? MP: that's correct. JKR: Who came to you first? MP: Nobody did. After 9-11,1 was at the range. When I was told what happened, I called the airport - spoke to somebody and said - get the 2 files for Kahtani and the other one and give to FBI ASAP - because this doesn't make sense - they could have been part of something. They made copies of it and Ms. McCormick (an inspector, supervisor in the Virgin Islands now) gave her task to make copies of 2 files and gave to FBI. MP: FBI office - Jose Lema. JKR: he is SA in charge? MP: Yes, of FBI office in Orlando. JKR: Did you hear from him? MP: Not that I recall. The first time I received inquiry on this matter was when Kahtani was first taken to GITMO and his fingerprints matched. I received a call from . JKR:- listen to tape MP: it has to be that time frame because I was at range doing quarterly qualification.

JKR:-what did he tell you - what was his business, what he did for a living? MP: No. JKR: Tell us about GITMO. MP: Don't recall who contacted me. Mr. Lawrence got a call from somebody; I have to come over to range and use your secure phone and asked me about Kahtani. I explained what happened. They brought me a copy of the 275. JKR: Was there ever any follow up? MP: One or 2 additional phone calls after that - they wanted to know ground for refusal. JKR: Did they explain why they wanted information? MP: I don't'recall. JKR: Did CIA ever contact you? MP: Don't think so. JKR: FBI follow up with you? MP: Not that I recall. JKR: I assume A files sent to GITMO. Tells us about the other Saudi 3 days later. MP: I don't recall name can probably get A-file - we have log. MP: This person came in on SA airlines; he was young like Kahtanti; sent to secondary because he had no money. I asked him why - he gave phone number for someone in Sarasota - but this guy departed for 20-30 days earlier - the person answered the phone and said yes I know him, but have not seem him for a long time. - wait a minute I said he just left - he said I don't have time to talk and hung up - he was a Saudi as well (everything in the A File). IDENT was down that day. Then he said someone was waiting for him upstairs - but no one is there. The person supposed to be at airport was in Omaha, Nebraska -1 asked him when are you coming to pick him up - he said I don't know I have to drive -1 can't let him do that - he has no money. Did not sound right. Again, here we go - why am I not getting right answers. Going to make it tougher because he came in on SA airlines. Again went to supervisor, something is not right. Based on no money, I was able to refuse him. Public charge. Adding to that. . . JKR: Did you put him in jail? MP: No, sent him back with SA airline and they took control of the guy.

JKR:- Did you need an interpreter? MP: No because he had been here. Not as well groomed as previous one; little bit overweight, young; changed stories quickly. JKR: What type of visa? MP: B2 - Kahtani as well. JKR: Any recollection if he had been in US before ? MP: Can't recall - no student issue. MP: Let me mention, Saudi Airlines station manager, was very in touch with this situation; he spoke to person in Nebraska and they got into it in Arabic - but station manager got very upset with person in Nebraska and turned to me and said - send him back. We should have his name because the airline has to sign 1-259. JKR: If we gave Mr. Bosch a call; because I am required to request the specific file MP: We can call Mr. Lawrence - Mr. Bosh is working today. JKR: Have I missed anything about Mr. Kahtani? JKR: Was there any pocket litter from second gentlemen, documents? MP: Don't know; he had good documents. JKR: Lets talk about documents generally; how much training did you receive on document. Fraud? MP: Received training at academy and a lot in Miami, amount of fraudulent documents is a lot. Whatever document is encountered during the day they will do quick analysis of document and will place in folder and you can check to see new trend in fraudulent documents. JKR: Are the documents picked up in POE. MP: In Orlando, Venezuela, Mexico, Jamaica - normally get 3-4 cases a day of fraudulent documents. We have resources that have all country passports (tape) JKR: Do you have photo phone available?

MP: Yes. JKR: Do you have the State Department consolidated data base? MP: Yes - works well - especially when they do photos of visa; if you have picture of who is supposed to be in front of you. As a matter of fact, two weeks ago we retrieved stolen passports - great features - they should issue all new visas with pictures. JKR: Has the Forensic Document Lab come to Orlando for training? MP: Yes - last year - not pre 9-11. JKR: What about language training? MP: Going back to FDL - they are awesome - however, they should do more training hands on - alerts are great - but I think they should come more often JKR: What is your view with your background in military, what is your view of training on interviewing that you receive at MP: The training we received for interviews - they have to concentrate more time for people to develop follow up questions - they should concentrate more on follow up questions because they are important. Line of questioning is very important and more training should be given. JKR: You may be aware, an issue has arisen in DC of- some people believe there is no value to interview for people overseas - opinion on value of interviews at POE and how valuable are they and what we can do. MP: The interview is first line to understand what is the person coming to US and do they have the right to be here. I have seen a lot of times people issued visas have who lied to CA; when they come to US this person's intention was to live in US; you can see evidence in their luggage - they packed bible and good- bye cards. New trend - people go back to country to get a stamp and pay someone to stamp they have reentered 2 years ago. Departure is so important - so they come back after being home for 30 days back-dated stamp - how many falling through the cracks. Interview is so important in primary and secondary but also at consular office because they are issuing the visas. JKR: Kahtani did you look through his bag? MP: No, he had a small bag - didn't do it myself, don't know if someone else did. JKR: Through the interview process, perhaps he should have been culled out overseas?

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MP: Yes, definitively. JKR: Too many people being referred to secondary - has there been a change in trend since 9-11 atPOEs? MP: I would say yes - problem as I see it is new inspectors send to secondary a lot - if they would ask the right questions in primary, secondary is would not nr necessary. Listen to tape Starting day 4 NCRs registrations, family of 5 with immigrant visas, and possible 7s, possible fraudulent documents - within few minutes you have room full. JKR: Do you have manpower to do work? MP: I would say we only have 4 secondary rooms and that's not enough; JKR: Are you dealing with National Targeting Center - working out of Virginia - they cull through manifests pre-arrival - work terrorist angle on those passengers? MP: We have a team that is full time dedicated to that; I am so happy that we are getting the amount of people we are getting now. We are turning people around for overstays and other reasons that you would not believe. JKR: Tipoff terrorists?? MP: Yesterday - it was a LOOKOUT - he was convicted for terrorist act somewhere. JKR: Can we possibly find out? MP: We can call Mr. Bosh. JKR: Let's talk about DHS - what changes have you seen on front line since it's new CBP? MP: Well I have seen right now - actually they are blending; 3 agencies trying to become one - there is more communication between us - still working with separate computers - but sharing information - like this guy we intercepted yesterday -1 think we are moving in right direction - only problem I have seen - some people have been in the service for a while who are in denial - this is one family, one face now; I think the uniform will help; deadline in July. Like everything this is a big merge; there is some resistance JKR: Do you think it's a good thing?

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MP: At the end, yes - 3 different missions here; we do most difficult one as far as I am concerned; its amazing how much paperwork we have to do for one person. Here we have to justify so many things. Customs doesn't do any of that. Are they gong to give us a hand in doing actual cases? I don' know. JKR:- Has separation from ICE made a difference? MP: why ICE JKR: At JFK they can't work without JTTF agent there. There's been apparently some hostilities between agencies. MP: Fortunately we don't have that problem as far as I'm concerned. JKR: Have you had JTTF come in on any? MP: I haven't seen any at airport. JKR: What about ICE agents. MP: Haven't seen them - but we have great relationship with them. JKR: What do you think the establishment of US VISIT will have on POE? MP: Any system that can help to prevent what happened on 9-11 - are they going to do this with everybody -1 think everybody who comes to visit should be fingerprinted, photograph - registration fine for first time JKR: What about - SEVIS up and running? MP: Helpful and have used it. JKR: Does it have all information it should? MP: Yes, some of the students are going home and not getting new 120 and have to be admitted for only 30 days until they fix it. Some people we have caught who are no longer students. JKR: Believe Atta came in through Orlando at least once - will check my records and get back to you. If you had a message for Mr. Bonner what would it be? MP: Training - fraudulent documents, language, don't take anything for granted. We want to feel that we will have support from headquarters when we make decision - take away the fear associated with making a decision - thinking if you are going to get a reprimand - because people are afraid.

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JKR: So people got into trouble before? MP: Yes. I knew I was doing what was right. Perception is service will not back you up if you make a mistake. JKR: Is the basic assumption that they are admissible unless you prove otherwise? MP: Sometimes a fine line - supervisors sometimes think you need to have facts, evidence to take an action; but no one wants to make a decision when the fine line is there.

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JOSE MELENDEZ-PEREZ QUESTIONS

January 26, 2004

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1 . Atta and AlShehhi's January 2001 entries. If a B2 applicant for admission shows an 1-20 upon entry, states that he is still going to school and has adjusted his status previously from B2 to Ml, what would you do? (Field manual says if a B2 comes in with a legitimate lack of paperwork for schooling, he may be deferred.) What happens in secondary when you check INS databases and learn that he was an overstay by a month upon his last departure the week prior^he has not adjusted his status to student, rather the application was still pending when he departed; and further that he has completed his schooling. What would you do with these 2. Hazmi and Midhar's lookouts in August 2001 .What would an inspector do if the lookout had appeared at primary? What were the procedures in place at secondary? Would the lookout, pre-9/1 1, have resulted in an expedited removal? What were the other possibilities?-(a waiver at request of law enforcement/intel) 3. FBI follow-up with Kahtani. — tJ& 4. Training. Assessment of document fraud and interview training pre-9/1 1. 5. Permitted length of stay.

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