Prato Notes Aktuell

Prato notes 21.11.2005 to-do's: * John write up a draft * all comment & circulate * All follow up on Charlotte Linde? http://tinyurl.com/d8nxp (a google search that turns up interesting stuff) * Patricia link to the CIRN proposal * Meet next Tuesday on skype John * * John D. Smith - [email protected] Voice: 503.963.8229 * "The power to command frequently causes failure to think." -- Barbara Tuchman ---------------------------PA: hi John, is it OK to postpone our chat to next week? PA: I'll go and read a story to Malte and then be online for a little while but I feel i won't make it till 10.30 Beverlys time JDS: next week is fine with me, Patricia. PA: OK fine -good night then|-) JDS: good night, Patricia! --------------Just saying good night to Patricia JDS: she's saying "let's talk next week" JDS: I'm writing up a proposal that I'll mail shortly. BJT: oh ... maybe we could speak to patricia now? JDS: sure. JDS: let me see if I can get her. JDS: let's JDS: shell call us. BJT: narrative matters deadline postponed till 15th December BJT: we're waiting for john to draft internal proposal BJT: john has ideas and will send in a couple of hours BJT: it turns things on its head BJT: it's something we should talk about BJT: it's saying .. rather than our positive everythgin is always wonderful BJT: let's look at the other side .. the darker side of communities BJT: how they forget, don't know and ignore BJT: john can fashion that into something that is interesting and compelling BJT: the dark side will drag people! BJT: halloween is fascinating and so is the dark side BJT: once we have that, patiricia will look at the two and send it to us BJT: patricia tried to open the link of nancy, but couldn't open it BJT: it folded BJT: what we're talking about in terms of narrative matters is to extend our book chapter on context BJT: look at e-learning angles around narrative BJT: work on our draft on the AERA draft BJT: see if that would fit in to the narrative matters BJT: have to ask peter BJT: if he wants a party in nova scotia BJT: shalot lindte (?) BJT: john could get in touch with her and get in touch with what she's written BJT: an intriguing connection

JDS: Charlotte Linde... BJT: that could be a way of advancing our theoretical framework BJT: self and voice BJT: it is our conference! BJT: if we get accepted we should try BJT: have to prepare an abstract and agree that we bring it in BJT: it's likely to be an interesting group of people .. john spoke with a person who is in the coaching and narrative area BJT: he's thinking of going to conference BJT: nova scotia an interesting and beautiful place BJT: do we have somewhere for a party BJT: not nearly so fun as peter's place BJT: canada is a big country 8) BJT: she's at nasa BJT: let's all be in one chat! JDS: I[ll put this together and send out as one. JDS: shall we hang up? JDS: ------------PA: http://ic.arc.nasa.gov/publications/pdf/Narrative&Tacit_K.pdf [1:46:52 PM] * JDS added BJT to this chat PA: http://ic.arc.nasa.gov/publications/pdf/Narrative&Tacit_K.pdf PA: Narrative and Social Tacit Knowledge* Charlotte Linde JDS: to finish on Nov 30. PA: 29 tues 9.15 Lisbon time

Summary: * * * *

Give EW some space and approach him later BT revise PA's proposal to CIRN & circulate JS DRAFT the call for the dialog next meeting tue 22 9.30 pm Lisbon time

John * * John D. Smith - [email protected] V: 503.963.8229 * "The power to command frequently causes failure to think." -- Barbara Tuchman -------------------------------------------------[1:28:35 PM] * PA added BJT to this chat PA: you see it know JDS: yes JDS: agenda BJT: pa' idea ... discuss the draft JDS: finish soon BJT: get done in 30 minutes BJT: js angle ... report on specific queries that he made incl. NW BJT: EW's reply BJT: bottom line .. needs to focus on 3 things .. BJT: 1. making money BJT: 2. has to focus on learning for a small planet BJT: 3. cpsquare BJT: enough money to pay his fare and for being there, might not join us BJT: PA: does this have to do with title / content or ... [1:33:25 PM] * JDS has changed the chat topic to "Prato planning"

BJT: what does he mean focus on cpsquare BJT: main thing is him feeling ... whether this would relate to learning for a small planet BJT: he has to be in driver seat ... has to be a viable foundation that will support him and ... having other people play a role before he is in charge doesn't work BJT: he feels like he has to be the source of the action BJT: both cpsquare and research project could get a push with this prato dialogue PA: Bev if you need help with the notes pls. tell me! JDS: Bev: there's another story here JDS: Both CP2 and L4P seem to fit. BJT: third reason would be ... he regards us as friends and that must be ... important but ... BJT: two example of people in europe having week-long seminars on cops and they would invite him to come but not have any money for him BJT: whole situation of being academics ... assuming your base costs are taken care of PA: it feels he said no rather than i could come under certain conditions BJT: we let it rest and decide what we want to do and as things evolve we come back and say we are doing it ... JDS: WE could include him using virtual / tools / tech PA: for Prato we can include Etienne other wise with technology BJT: pa - interpret the thing this way BJT: i feel i've sometimes experienced a similar feeling ... do the things ... no money/lots of work/hard status JDS: no status BJT: hard view of it .. inner voice as part of lots of voices ... image of inner team BJT: well, i can put so much energy etc. the feasible things BJT: these phases pass and the other day .. what is a contract ... what is money ... interesting processes and nice people BJT: should not be upset or reject the logic of his feelings BJT: concerns and worries about the money itslef ... thinking that we ... BJT: setúbal was so successful that there were some traps BJT: it shaped my idenity and sense of place in the world BJT: what do we want to carry forward BJT: we have to lok deeper and say ... here are the parts that are really important tnad here is the work that needs to be done BJT: pa, js and bt do the organising ... we pay oursleves or don't pay the registration BJT: some benefit JDS: Bev: JDS: maybe that's the focus point of our dialog. JDS: why would people come all the way over? JDS: one of the objectives is "which connections can we make to create money or other value?" JDS: put a finaicial reward for going. JDS: PA: other value? JDS: evyrone who goes has a commitment to some kind of getting each other work or making it wortwhile for other pepole. PA: practical objectives: explore what we can get out of it BJT: matching things with spouse or family BJT: in setubal ... all outsiders who found an insiderness PA: we all desperately trying to match our interests with research, family, friends, job reuquirements BJT: many people in cpsquare PA: outsiderness

PA: CoP not part of your main job requreiment PA: creating ways out of this outsider way PA: come up with some conctrete result PA: behind the Setubal dialogue was perhaps the same silent thinking BJT: acknowledge this difficult situation .. not part of core business and family things ... deliberately say why don't we use that as a market place ... where can we work together AND GET FUNDED FOR IT! BJT: don't want to be marginalised, overworked people BJT: how would we change the draft? BJT: draft is for prato organisers JDS: There are two parallel proposals.... JDS: Proposing something to CIRN needs to have the "down-to-earth" theme. PA: coheseiveness for the two PA: how does memory relate to practice PA: ou our current marginalized practice PA: identiy and empowerment BJT: we can't, in a 200 word proposal put it too much BJT: still has to be ... fit into the overall something BJT: we already do it differently BJT: have to keep it down to earth BJT: cirn ... read proposal and see something special ... can't be incredibly different BJT: pa - think we need a draft for internal one ... see how we can make them connect PA: need internal draft as well PA: then let link them - adapt them to each other BJT: considering pa's bedtime ... js volunteers to send some focus thing for dialogue PA: John volunteers for an internal draft BJT: proposal to CIRN ... nancy (freudian slip?) bev has started messing with it PA: next meeting tue 22 9.t30 pm Lisbon time PA: bye JDS: bye bye! JDS: I'll send the notes along. BJT: 8)

27.03.2006

09:24 PM : bevtrayner: have you got this? 09:25 PM : bevtrayner: we can use this to take notes 09:25 PM : patricia_gizmo: let's try 09:25 PM : bevtrayner: patricia tryin to check to see our accomodation situation 09:25 PM : bevtrayner: it's nothing 09:26 PM : bevtrayner: everything was booked 09:26 PM : bevtrayner: folowed up one more advice from Lucilla 09:26 PM : bevtrayner: the rates were very high 100-140 euros per day 09:27 PM : patricia_gizmo: http://www.hotelsearch.it/en/hotel/ 20108185-enhome.asp 09:27 PM : bevtrayner: why don't we just book 09:27 PM : bevtrayner: we should register and share a room 09:28 PM : bevtrayner: find one of the cheap ones 09:28 PM : bevtrayner: before we had idea to organise a joint thing for conference ... too much burden on us 09:29 PM : bevtrayner: let's get prato booked 09:29 PM : bevtrayner: on the weekend accomplished list 09:30 PM : bevtrayner: Patricia doing flat sharing 09:30 PM : bevtrayner: http://www.fattoriadimigliarino.it/htm-eng/sethome.html 09:33 PM : bevtrayner: Goodmorning M.me Trayner,there is avaialbility for that period and prices are:euro 100,00/doubleroom with breakfasteuro 130,00/tripleroom with breakfasteuro 160,00/ quadrupleroom with breakfast.Best regardsMartino Salviati 09:35 PM : bevtrayner: patricia asking for prices 09:41 PM : bevtrayner: how much for the whole place? 09:41 PM : bevtrayner: expalin that we are researchers "on a mission" 09:41 PM : bevtrayner: some people prefer to give a lower rate to people they like than higher rate to business people tc. 09:41 PM : bevtrayner: some ... people 09:48 PM : bevtrayner: stefano renzi and jane klobas 09:48 PM : bevtrayner: from uni of becconni 09:48 PM : bevtrayner: milan 09:51 PM : bevtrayner: must be one cheap b&b in prato 09:53 PM : bevtrayner: workshop thingie 09:55 PM : bevtrayner: there's too much to do ... 09:55 PM : bevtrayner: tackle rooms first .. do update of workshop invite later 09:55 PM : bevtrayner: need a brainstorm for our paper 09:56 PM : bevtrayner: accomodation ... brings the amiguity of the plan 09:58 PM : bevtrayner: conclusion: focus on accomodation (PA) .... 09:58 PM : bevtrayner: Workhsop invite rewrite by end of next weekend 09:59 PM : bevtrayner: Brainstorm ideas for paper ... by end of next weekend 10:00 PM : bevtrayner: between 3 and 10th bev is unavailable 10:00 PM : patricia_gizmo: PA unavailable 12-17 april 10:00 PM : bevtrayner: patricia 12 - 17th unavailable 10:01 PM : patricia_gizmo: work is crasy!!! 10:02 PM : patricia_gizmo: 2nd april brainstom paper

ohn: two items John: * accomodations Patricia: accomodation and brainstorm paper John: * brainstorm paper John: cheap is good! Beverly: we are for the cheap solution Beverly: won't be a villa John: people who want fancy can stay there! John: No conference technology (projectors, screens, etc.) Beverly: one bigger room and two or three smaller rooms Beverly: the terrace sounds good John: terrace fo coffee breaks,e tc. John: but not for formal meetings--that depends on the weather. it could rain. Beverly: should we go for self-catering? Beverly: breakfast and pizzerias Beverly: for 15 euros we would have a dinner Beverly: breakfast 5 euros Beverly: what if we .... ? Beverly: either do everything yourself or keep out the kitchen Beverly: self-catering is nice but would absorb lots of energy Beverly: breakfast provided and go out for dinner together John: reservations for prato as well. John: price break for a whole week? Beverly: if there is a price week if you stay for whole week John: ------------------------ brainstorm on the paper -----Beverly: 10- 15 mins brainstroming Patricia: literature review Beverly: lit review John: PA: german lit review of story -telling John: BT: autoethnography .. examples, stories, John: Carolyn Ellis (ed) John: The ethnographic / auto-ethnography. John: narrative inquiry: experience & story in qualitative research. Beverly: plato ... Beverly: memory and narative Beverly: rich ironies Beverly: could situate some of tricky issues about memory, truth and communicating about truth Beverly: could be intro to some of issues Beverly: once accomodation is sorted ... scanning John: tags: in delicious. John: prato-dialog John: btrayner John: smithjd Patricia: Patricia: need to start to use delicious! Beverly: storytelling John: how to arrange tags. John: taggerfriends Beverly: smithjd John: parnold Beverly: parnold Beverly: http://www.quickonlinetips.com/archives/2005/02/absolutely-deliciouscomplet e-tools-collection/ John: bloglines Beverly: http://www.bloglines.com John: another tool!

John: writely.com Beverly: make yourself a wiki - not a page! Beverly: http://www.wikispaces.com Beverly: openonomy Beverly: http://www.openonomy.com John: link doesn't work John: http://www.openomy. com John: http://www.openomy.com Patricia: home page is out - tagged filing systems - sounds wonderful Patricia: Bev promises to still talk to techie ignorants like patricia John: prato+narrative Beverly: pratonarrative John: 2.0.0.81 version of skype Beverly: 1.4 :( John: get it together, Bev! :) Beverly: tuesday 18th ...

ohn: two items John: * accomodations Patricia: accomodation and brainstorm paper John: * brainstorm paper John: cheap is good! Beverly: we are for the cheap solution Beverly: won't be a villa John: people who want fancy can stay there! John: No conference technology (projectors, screens, etc.) Beverly: one bigger room and two or three smaller rooms Beverly: the terrace sounds good John: terrace fo coffee breaks,e tc. John: but not for formal meetings--that depends on the weather. it could rain. Beverly: should we go for self-catering? Beverly: breakfast and pizzerias Beverly: for 15 euros we would have a dinner Beverly: breakfast 5 euros Beverly: what if we .... ? Beverly: either do everything yourself or keep out the kitchen Beverly: self-catering is nice but would absorb lots of energy Beverly: breakfast provided and go out for dinner together John: reservations for prato as well. John: price break for a whole week? Beverly: if there is a price week if you stay for whole week John: ------------------------ brainstorm on the paper -----Beverly: 10- 15 mins brainstroming Patricia: literature review Beverly: lit review John: PA: german lit review of story -telling John: BT: autoethnography .. examples, stories, John: Carolyn Ellis (ed) John: The ethnographic / auto-ethnography. John: narrative inquiry: experience & story in qualitative research. Beverly: plato ... Beverly: memory and narative Beverly: rich ironies Beverly: could situate some of tricky issues about memory, truth and communicating about truth Beverly: could be intro to some of issues

Beverly: once accomodation is sorted ... scanning John: tags: in delicious. John: prato-dialog John: btrayner John: smithjd Patricia: Patricia: need to start to use delicious! Beverly: storytelling John: how to arrange tags. John: taggerfriends Beverly: smithjd John: parnold Beverly: parnold Beverly: http://www.quickonlinetips.com/archives/2005/02/absolutely-deliciouscomplet e-tools-collection/ John: bloglines Beverly: http://www.bloglines.com John: another tool! John: writely.com Beverly: make yourself a wiki - not a page! Beverly: http://www.wikispaces.com Beverly: openonomy Beverly: http://www.openonomy.com John: link doesn't work John: http://www.openomy. com John: http://www.openomy.com Patricia: home page is out - tagged filing systems - sounds wonderful Patricia: Bev promises to still talk to techie ignorants like patricia John: prato+narrative Beverly: pratonarrative John: 2.0.0.81 version of skype Beverly: 1.4 :( John: get it together, Bev! :) Beverly: tuesday 18th ... [1:36:37 PM] * Patricia Arnold - rain in Hamburg added John Smith to this chat Beverly: hi... i'm here John: cool. let's talk! Beverly: puerta rico .. visiting a world that john hasn't seen for 10 years ... a reunion from high school John: http://flickr.com/photos/40222263@N00/ John: Beverly? Beverly: how long were you away from the computer? [1:44:33 PM] * Patricia Arnold - MUC without proper Internet left this chat [1:46:38 PM] * John Smith added Patricia Arnold - MUC without proper Internet to this chat John: homeopathy for CoP folks -- more work! John: webist conference? John: outcomes are slow. ready to MOVE ON. Patricia: Perto Rico: lots of change happening, everybody on cellular phone Patricia: human over-estimate what kind of change is possibl in teh short term Patricia: and under-estimate the changes in the long term John: working at Esce John: have to answer the phone in English. Patricia: Bev jobs situation difficult, lots of energy, too little rewarding John: complicated world... John: Portuguese politics Patricia: slow change in Portugal, politics in P are so difficult

John: to earn money and have a professional identity requires 7 day workweek - 14 hours a day Patricia: difficult to establish one's professional identity John: arrivistes in positions of power Patricia: layer who moved into power John: teach us how to reflect! John: portfolio for the school. John: Bologna -- suddenly expected to use a new paradigm of learning. John: want a lecture on how to not use lecture methodology. John: Patricia & beverly in Portugal... That's a combination! John: People in positions of power look at Beverly asking what should be done? John: What should we done. John: Thank you strategy! Beverly: we have to say thank you with polysyllabic words and circumlocution John: stupid people "hold" the system. John: peoplel with questions run into problems. John: What am *I* doing! John: how much time we work -- ridiculous. John: Bev's introducing us to the technologies. John: Beverly naps at the conference... John: Spanish stuff on Web 2.0 social netowrks. John: Teaching students to answer the telephone in an optional subject. John: It's the huge gap between worlds ... John: Nobody's there. John: Idiots with comopany who are enjoying themselves! Beverly: becasue we are so globally connected ... connected to advance connection ... ruins the loca Beverly: loca seems really pathertic and backwards Beverly: we can fake it to some extent but it's only limited ... Beverly: JS working with company in Silicon valley ... people obsessed with obedience Beverly: being seen in cofrmity ... Beverly: JS ... help create CoP using a blog Beverly: because wordpress is available Beverly: consultants working with people .. work in back-channe .. how to talk to people without getting them upset Beverly: can't sit down and say .. you're stupid! Beverly: .. maybe there's a curse of Setúbal ... John: disappointment Beverly: those affected by experience have really been dealing with some kind of disappointment afterwards Patricia: we are connected globally in an an advanced way so th local looks grey John: the local John: it seems so flat -- one-dimensional John: disparate world Beverly: it's peculiar .. so much disparateness in world John: PA: social informatics job. Beverly: social informatics Beverly: try to get access to webiste Beverly: how do i get access to website? Beverly: no support around ... Beverly: no access for me .. but there's a girl who looks to the website Beverly: she has a paper postbox Beverly: she's only there on Mondays Beverly: Patricia there on Tuesdays to Fridays John: it took 3 weeks to find out! Beverly: is this true?

John: Use the drums. John: glocalized Beverly: talking about web2.0 a dn social bookmarking .. but no table to sovle down-to-earth problems John: global changes the world, hence the local. Beverly: js thinks this issue is more important than memory Beverly: when start thinking of memory ... dumb topic Beverly: the ironies that are in the conversation between socrates and whoever Beverly: on some level talking about memory is a waste of time unless you talk about truth Beverly: memory connected to waht we are just talking about Beverly: how the global shapes our experience ot the loca John: memories of the future. Beverly: in our memory is another vision Beverly: if you use memory in the broader sense John: reified perception John: 3 types of memory John: a funny sound. a drilling machine. John: 26 CD ROMS to save everything that Bev has on her hard disk. John: Bev: needs an external hard disk. John: ----------------------------------John: talk about accommodation John: alternation of exhilaration & defeat. John: Prato-style accommodation in florence. Beverly: really suitable for us John: close to city center, cheap, has the flavor -- informal, low level, but nice Beverly: has an informal low-leve low-budget atmosphere John: nearby possibilities Beverly: it might not meet other people's standards ... but people can find something else Beverly: posh hotels will not be a problem to find John: want bookings soon Beverly: it's available now but they want a definite booking soon John: how many 2-bedrooms, 3-person bedrooms, etc. John: minimum number of people John: slow to answer Beverly: in the meantime . write to all who expressed interest Beverly: registration is immindent Beverly: will people pay directly to place in florence or are we going to pay directly in lump sum Beverly: we can't talk cpsquare money for a while Beverly: we can put down a deposit on may 17th Beverly: wouldn't accept everyone one-by one registering Beverly: patricia ask for minimum number John: 50% in advance Beverly: 50% deposit Patricia: we book for 15 people - if you want to be among them. let us know quickly! Beverly: everyone who has the cpsquare site for prato includes people who are not offical members of cpsquare Beverly: we could put it in the discussion space Beverly: budget and registration page Beverly: john Beverly: a group booking ... one fixed price John: 23 E per night John: + 20 with breakfast & dinner Beverly: 43 per person

Patricia: PA needs to find out minimum number Beverly: 6 rooms John: http://www.veb.it/guesthouse.php Patricia: find out exact rooms Patricia: as min number & rooms and send it to John Beverly: as soon as pa has number and rooms will tell us Patricia: put URL in the space John: how generate discussion Beverly: raise the issue of cpsquare making a profit Beverly: cpsqaure will put in money and do banking ... but will get something for service Beverly: helps js to get there John: registration fee... Beverly: everyone pays 30 euros registration fee Patricia: try to do a booking mid of May Patricia: 23 april sunday 9.30 Bevs time John: John to send out notes