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Posted Nov 26, 2006 @ 12:40:51 am EST Expert..... Might as well head this one off too.... PROFICIENT implies a thorough competence derived from training and practice. EXPERT implies extraordinary proficiency, derived from extended training and practice. I shoot as often as possible, and consider myself proficient with firearms. I do not however, consider myself an expert. Joe (Current score: 2.90881) Original thread/news

Duh! Current score: 2.87962

Posted Nov 25, 2006 @ 2:09:16 pm EST Expert opinion? Don't know where that came from, I am not an expert, but I do have an opinion, just like everybody else. Once again, my statement was aimed at laws at the local level, and not to debate any part of the rights afforded by the second amendment. We all know our 2A rights have been restricted. Once again, I do believe in the RKBA. Most people here do. As a matter of fact, I'll bet most of the people here are either permit holders or LEO of some type. So here's a question for you. Do you have a permit, or do you rely strictly on you 2A rights to carry?

Joe (Current score: 2.67381) Score # Votes 0 1 4 1 Original thread/news Duh! Current score: 2.87962

Posted Nov 25, 2006 @ 1:30:47 pm EST RKBA As stated on my other post...I do believe in the right to keep an bear arms. What I do not believe in is the the thought that because we have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, that we can disregard places that are legally off-limits. The following is an excerpt from my clarification..... Paragraph #8 It’s a privilege to carry. This was written for all the people that say they will carry whenever/wherever they want with wanton disregard for the law. I do believe in the RKBA, but the local laws still need to be obeyed. There are a lot of people here that suggest if you conceal properly, no one will know you have a firearm on your body, so no harm, no foul. My point was that if they get caught and lose their carry permit (privilege), it will be a felony to carry again. Bottom line = Take away your ccw, illegal to carry = privilege. I don’t agree with it, but that is the reality of it. Vermont and Alaska have it right. That was the point of the paragraph. So in effect, it is like a drivers license. I don't want it that way, that's the way it is. I had no part in making it that way, except for possibly voting for the wrong person. If anyone wants a first hand example, put your firearm on your hip and go to any city in Illinois. Stop and say hello to the local P.D., and explain to them your 2A rights. This will work in WI and CA also. It's all about perspective...... Joe (Current score: 2.67381) Score # Votes 0 1 4 1 Original thread/news

Duh! Current score:

Posted Nov 25, 2006 @ 10:14:27 am

2.87962

EST Clarificatio..... I wasn’t going to respond to this thread anymore, and even responded via e-mail to exYm and kldimond, but I will explain a few of my original statements. Paragraph #8 It’s a privilege to carry. This was written for all the people that say they will carry whenever/wherever they want with wanton disregard for the law. I do believe in the RKBA, but the local laws still need to be obeyed. There are a lot of people here that suggest if you conceal properly, no one will know you have a firearm on your body, so no harm, no foul. My point was that if they get caught and lose their carry permit (privilege), it will be a felony to carry again. Bottom line = Take away your ccw, illegal to carry = privilege. I don’t agree with it, but that is the reality of it. Vermont and Alaska have it right. That was the point of the paragraph. Paragraph #10 Cops don’t need to know I have a gun. This is a sour subject with a lot of people, and I agree that if it’s legal to carry a weapon, it’s legal. End of story. But if the local law says to declare, such as Michigan, then declare. It’s not that big of a deal. Paragraph #11 Cops are not better than a regular citizen. What I was trying to say here, is that they are just like us in everyday life. But when they are in uniform and doing their job, we have to give them that respect, they deserve that. Sure, some may not have earned it, but you have to respect the uniform if not the person. Giving the officer a hard time on the side of the road is not a good idea. That is not the place to spew about your legal rights and who pays whose salary. Paragraph #13 I am not an expert in firearms, firearm safety, criminal law, etc. Most of the people here aren’t either, but this is still one of the best places to get firearm related information. As such, we should try and make sure that the information we give to others is accurate. I have seen a lot of information being given out that could get people in a lot of trouble. Opinions should be reserved for your favorite gun, holster, bullet, etc. If you are not a lawyer, don’t give legal advice. I think the rest of the paragraphs were pretty much self-explanatory. I will now step off of my soapbox. Joe (Current score: 3.13459) Score # Votes

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Posted Nov 24, 2006 @ 10:54:32 pm EST To Kimber and Dr First off, as for the fake name, I don't think the names you two are using were given to you by your parents. Joe is my given name. If people would quit slamming zero's on everyone for no reason, I would have used my usual screen name. When I wrote this, I took my time and picked and chose my words very carefully, so as to try and not offend anybody, but still give my opinion as to what I see on PDO. If there had been no response to this thread, I would have been happy. To twist ones words or delete parts of a paragraph to attempt to change the meaning of it just goes to show what the original post was all about. That's why I said, "and I give you exhibit "A"." It didn't take long for you to slam my post. Everything I have written about has been discussed on PDO in the last month. Do your homework before you call people names. (By the way, if you are good at your research, you will be able to figure out my other screen name, based on my original post) Now, if you don't respond to this, I couldn't possibly succeed in what you call trolling! (Current score: 2.85366) Score # Votes 0 3 4 1 5 3 Original thread/news

Duh! Current score: 2.87962

Posted Nov 24, 2006 @ 8:44:21 pm EST dr_mac I give you exhibit "A"...... (Current score: 2.58621) Score # Votes

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Posted Nov 24, 2006 @ 7:56:35 pm EST PDO isn't the same...... First off, I am not a first time poster, but this name is so I can remain anonymous. I do not post often, but I read almost everything that is posted. I am not a troll, and I carry either a G26 or a P239 almost every day (even at work). I am not LEO, but I have the utmost respect for them. And last, I am not a Lawyer, nor did I play one on TV. So here is what I have come to say: LIGHTEN UP EVERYBODY! It seems that every time somebody post a question, it gets torn apart by the 'experts'. This site used to be a good place to get information, now, we have to weed through all the rhetoric, just to find out half of the answers to our questions were either wrong, or not on subject. For example, when some asks about a good IWB holster for thier PM40, the shoulder holster for your Kimber probably doesn't relate. Or when somebody asks about carrying on university property, if you don't know the real answer, don't respond. We are all capable of looking at the outdated information on the 'State CCW Info' pages. It's what's not there that people need to know. Same with experiences. Not everyone is making up stories to get recognized or whatever. I would have to assume some of what people are posting is true. It just cracks me up when someone says they got pulled over or whatever and proceeds to tell thier story, and there is a flaming response about two seconds later by some armchair quarterback about how this or that could not have possibly happened. As for the racial stuff, don't argue with them You can't win. A person who judges by race, and race alone, has a brainpan slightly less powerful than an amoeba. In thier mind, they will always be right. (By the way, I am white) Personally, I took the 'New CCW in D.C.' as humor. Relax a little and re-read it. It's funny. I don't think it was the same guy that was linked to in one of the post' though. Here's my take on CCW badges, that apparently if you have a FL CCW, you start getting the fliers in the mail, at least, that's when it started for me. They are a JOKE. If you want a badge, get your degree, go through the academy, and become a police officer. Otherwise, leave the badge at home. There sure is a lot of debate about those stupid things, but the bottom line is this.....Police =

badges, CCW = Permit. Speaking of police, and this part should get y'all going, they have a right to disarm you if they desire. I defy anyone here to show me a state that allows you to keep your weapon if the officer request it. So what is the big deal? The Coast Guard isn't allowed because they are on water? Please.... I read on here all the time that we have a right to carry our firearms, so it will be carried whenever/wherever I want. Carrying a firearm is not a right. Get used to that fact. It is a privilege, just like a drivers license. If your drivers license gets suspended, you can't drive. No constitutional amendment will fix that. So the laws of the state you are carrying in should probably be obeyed. Off limits is off limits. When you lose your CCW, it will be a felony to carry anytime! Those who carry to be a hero someday should really think about what that means. If you are in a bank, and a robber shows up, are you going to get involved? Most robberies go off without anyone getting hurt, so why risk your life to save insured money? Same with a liquor store. I carry for self preservation, and if the bank is going to lose $3000 and I can still go home, I win. Now if they come in shooting...different story. Keep in mind, you will not win any brownie points with the local P.D. or prosecutor if an innocent gets shot because of or by you. Don't get me wrong, I believe in a duty to act, but I also believe it should be thought through. We can't be trigger happy. I also get a kick out of it when people say, "The cops don't need to know I have a gun....I am John Q. Public and went through all these background checks and training" etc, etc. Here is a little lesson: Everybody had a clean criminal record at one time, even the cops that get arrested...and all that training, 100 shots and 16 hours over a weekend. Impressive. When that officer is walking up to your window, he/she has no idea what is about to transpire. Is that officer a better citizen than everyone else, probably not. Most people are pretty good citizens. Should he get more respect than everyone else, on duty....Yes. Any other time, he/she is just like us. They have a tough job, and yes they knew it going in, and they still chose to do it. So when you get pulled over, just cooperate, don't be a d***, and all should be good. By the way, more than likely, the officer already knows what your rights are, you don't have to reiterate them. Last of all, there was a police officer close to my home that was charged with felonious assault for pointing his service weapon at a drunk during an altercation during a traffic stop. This was pre-taser era and the fight was recorded on dash-cam. The officer was about 85% whooped when he pulled his weapon. Judge dropped the charges, but the point is, don't think that permit gives you any special privileges. If you shoot, you will spend a night in the

clink. Guaranteed. My point for this rant is this....Look at some of the points I have made, and I could have come up with more, and try to make PDO a better place. We no longer have updated home screens or state info, and I believe the moderators are all but gone. I think PDO is going lame, mostly because of it's users. We are all not experts, at least I'm not. Good accurate information is priceless, and opinions, like this one, only mean something to the person that writes it. Think about it..... Joe