Transcript Of Sacop Dialogue Between Gov. Ed Panlilio And Balas Boys

DRAFT DIALOGUE BETWEEN BALAS AND AMONG ED AS REQUESTED BY CIVIL SOCIETY GROUPS (CSGs) July 14, 2008 Epthata Building, SACOP, CSFP Participants: Office of the Governor: Gov. Ed and Atty. Dabu; Karen Shih (documentation) BALAS: Edu de Leon, Alex Pineda, others (please see attendance) Civil Society Groups: KMI, KCI, Kasaup, Couples for Christ, PAMPANGO Facilitators: Lead Facilitator: Fr. Deo Galang Others: Fr. Paul, Bro. Ric (CFC), Irwin, Banjo Dialogue started at exactly 11:18am. INTRODUCTIONS / LEVELING-OFF on the principles behind, expectations and objectives of this dialogue Father Deo Galang as an opening statement expressed his happiness over this goodwill dialogue, believing that “we are starting on the right foot,” citing the decision of BALAS not to push through with this morning's protest action during flag ceremony and but instead both parties agreeing to sit down and talk… “There are many who would not want this dialogue to prosper… I am here because I believe that we can find a solution over what is happening....I don’t believe that we will be able to finish everything in one seating. But what I would want is that after this meeting, we are better than before, that when we go home, we have good news to tell our families. “… We are one team. It’s good that we don’t go to the media – they are there to broadcast what’s happening based on their perspective… What I’d want also is that there is a freeflowing discussion – let’s not also put “vs vs”; no division.”

Fr. Deo appealed to the body, using the analogy of “the white board” as a starting point in looking into the concerns of the BALAS boys, “starting with a clean slate… “ Among Ed reminded everyone that “it is in this room where it all started, where the Crusade was born. This room has the character of bringing to life a worthy crusade.” He asked also if it’s ok if at some point that a recess be requested to be able to consult with own groups. Fr. Deo said that they also had talks with other religious at St. Scho last night which started at 6pm and there was a realization: “There’s democracy in Pampanga. This government can be proud of BALAS – there may be mistakes but there are more good graces… we have done many things already.” Mr. Nucum thanked both the Balas and Capitol groups “because last night we saw democracy and we allowed this dialogue to happen. We don’t know where this negotiation will lead us but we are here to find solutions.” Fr. Deo said he saw hope in that while there were those who were against the idea of not pursuing the issue through the protest action (strike), in last night's sharing it was seen that the best way to pursue the issue is through dialogue – “there's a bigger chance of resolving the issue through this dialogue than by being out there.” Among Ed also thanked the Balas boys for being here – their willingness to talk. He said he also accepted the invitation to dialogue, that while he does not want it to seem as if he is asking for “utang na loob”, but he is here instead of attending to the invitation of Manny Pangilinan, “as a sign of goodwill and to show that I give huge importance to this concern”. Among Paul: At our last nights sharing, there we saw that there should be a guideline in this dialogue that we ought to follow. Goodwill means we are open, although we have our own positions on issues, but we are dialoguing. We are open to listen to each others problems. Among Deo : There's a saying in Kapampangan, “Let us not spill the soup”. We are already here, but because of miscalculation or statements, and that we have already achieved something and I'm sure also that this also for the face of the whole governance of Among Ed and the whole people here – the insider, the outsider, the civil society, and us – we want to come out that we are able to talk. There is an upcoming dialogue with SP, maybe they will use it against us that we are not able to talk among ourselves, what more can they expect from Among Ed's call for a dialogue. The point is, there are

bigger wars, bigger concerns out there. Let us not use up all our positive energies here because we are being hard on our positions. This I am saying to all of us who are here. How do we proceed? I hope that we are all in agreement that we cannot settle this in one seating. EDU: What we are after what is “maayap at masanting”. We hope and believe that this dialogue is also for what is good. With us being here is proof that our group is ready for what you are saying as goodwill talk, for good and peaceful dialogue. We also hope that as Among Ed have said, we hope that after this dialogue, we have reached resolutions to address our concerns. Bro. Ric: Maybe we can proceed from where we left off last night. The first thing we do is perhaps Kong Edu can now present the first issue... Fr. Deo: From what I understand, BALAS claims that there are things that did not go through due process. Among Ed suggested that it is better if we discuss that issue, the person or office involved in the allegation also be present in the discussion. Now we are here, facing one another, to things right, or if you want to, to go through the process all over again, together, so that if there are things that must be clarified and addressed fully, we can do it all together. Irwin to ETP: For us to proceed to the negotiation per se, can we agree on what is the status of the BALAS boys, so we have a starting point? Like what is being said, if they are terminated, there is nothing else to talk about. But if we are going to have a negotiation, let us go back to where we started to have the problem as a starting point. What happened. Dr. Sandico: In our discussion, can we go back to before all of these happened and not just what happened? What are the roots of the problem. Deo: Can we go to not who is the problem, but to what is the problem. If we go with “who is the problem” it will really be personal because he/she will be compelled to defend him/herself. Father Deo asked if the BALAS boys would like to share what they know of their employment status now. Romy (Balas) : Status po namin sa pagkakaalam ko, we were terminated sa trabaho namin. Dating checker, pero according to Atty. Dabu we were terminated. We did not receive any written notice, there was no written explanation why we were terminated. We were fired because according to Atty Dabu, we protested.

Fr. Deo: when we speak of termination, it means livelihood and loss of our pride and dignity for ourselves as we were fired because we joined the protest. I don't think that there was any malicious intent to topple the government of Among Ed. Fr. Deo asked Romy if he would still want to go back to work. Romy: Of course, I would still want to go back to work. On the issue of whether I violated any rules, I don't think so. I did not abandon my post. Bobby Gopez, also a quarry checker shared his own experience with the termination. Bobby: When the protest happened, I was in Nueva Ecija because my wife was sick; I asked permission from my supervisor through text but there was no reply. When I came back to Pampanga to return to work (proceeding to Villa Del Sol as my post) I was informed that I was already terminated. I am really hurting… I am already having problems with my family, and now I don’t know what to tell my them. Alex: (on issue of wages and the termination) In the past, we were also having problems with receiving our wages; but at that time, we had good bosses. (Refering to Fil Rodriguez, Allan Cunanan, Chris Ocampo as their immediate superiors.) This time, we are also having problems with wages but also, we have had to go through the painful experience of being humiliated in front so many others. Dr. Sandico: we want win win solution: I asked where all these problems came from… if we have done something wrong, we accept it and see how we may be able to address it. Bro Ric: I think the question in BALAS peoples’ mind is this: will be able to get our jobs back? I think only after we will get the answer is only when we will be able to openly discuss things… Alex: I want to share with everybody herewhat happened that Monday (July 7) when we felt very humiliated… (Check recording of Mike's testimony) Bobby: when I started July 1 last year, we received P231 salary. Come October to November, we were promoted to Salary Grade 5 as we began receiving P352 daily. However, the periods of February to March, our salary returned to Grade 1, and then on April, our salary was reverted to Grade 5

again, then again for May 1-15, back to Grade 1. By June, P254 na nga lang ang sahod, andami pang kaltas. Wala ng natitira sa take home pay. When we asked for explanation on what is happening and if it is possible for us to receive better wages, we were told that Atty Dabu's explanation is “kung susundin ang gusto nyo, wala nang ipapasahod, hanggang December na lang kayo.” Among Deo said that the issues of timeliness of payments and amount of wages are important concerns that should be discussed separately. There are many reasons why there are delays in payments, e.g. daily time record that are submitted late, etc. He reminded the body that the issues of the reinstatement of BALAS checkers and the humiliation felt by the supervisors when they were dismissed like that. Fr. Deo asked Alex if he believes that there are improvements that can and have yet to be done. Alex agreed that there are. Edu commented that in fairness to Atty. Dabu, she is one of those who fought and made sure that the BALAS will get their salaries and at times to the point of endangering her profession. Ms. Myrna Bituin said that she will propose to the civil society to seriously plan on lobbying with the SP to help Among Ed get the necessary approval for budget allocations for BALAS salaries and benefits and other projects. Also, she said that she will suggest the initiation of a livelihood program for BALAS. Before going to lunch break, Edu posed the question, “Those who joined the protest, what will be the status of their employment?” Fr. Deo asked Among Ed to think about the question and hopefully the body will get the answer after the lunch break. LUNCH BREAK Resumed: 1:43pm Among Ed: since Wednesday, I have been asking PA to think of ways to bring them back… I am very open to the possibilities of bringing you all back to work, esp. after we spoke after Thursday night. My problem is this: what about those that we hired. We had to hire them because we cannot leave the posts unmanned. I want to bring you all back. I want to ask what you think about this problem.

Edu: we can use as basis the length of service; Capuccino: we can perhaps do shifting? how many were actually displaced? Atty. Dabu: We think around 50. Myrna: let us check for sure how many have been displaced; I believe in the last in first out principle; DOLE would say “back to work”; many of us in the Crusade are here because we are fighting for what is fair and right. Richard Garcia: what of our supervisors? Bro Ric: on part of the civil society, we will not tolerate it if there are indeed anomalies. We would also want to hear from the Capitol what prompted them to their actions. Romy: if ang pinakamataas ang nagkamali, dapat din silang managot… Deo: no one is exempted. There is the proper process of investigation and decision making. Myrna: another idea on those that have been hired, maybe there is a need for reserved work force… I presume that with the kind of work of BALAS, hindi pwedeng mawawalan ng tao sa post. Maaring may nagkakasakit, or absent, there should also be a reserved or emergency workers. Edu: It is not our intention to destroy anyone nor will we allow BALAS to be destroyed by its own. We only wanted to express ourselves to the people because we were not being listened to within the Capitol. We could have avoided many problems if only we were treated fairly and receive the fair share from the earning of the province… Ave: Last night we heard from the civil society, and the side of BALAS, we now want to hear from Atty. Dabu and Among Ed. Atty Dabu: May mga nareconsider sa inyo. Ang iba nakabalik na. Bakit? Dahil baka hindi nila naintindihan na bawal talaga ang ginawa nyo. Hindi na bale na naheadline ang mga mukha nila at marami silang sinabing masasakit sa akin. Everytime na may nagtetext sa akin na may anomalya sa quarry ako ang napapahiya. Sa lahat ng supervisors, tatlo lang ang nagsusubmit ng reports. Ilang beses akong nagpatawag ng meeting pero hindi kayo dumadating. Tuwing may report of anomaly sa quarry operations, napapahiya din ako since I am the head of BALAS Committee. It is not true that there is not an unabandoned post, it’s not true; makonti lang kita ng

quarry for the past few days; nagpifiesta ang mga gumagawa ng illegal ngayon sa quarry. Mali talaga ang set-up ng BALAS, kailangan talagang baguhin; part ng restructuring ang ginawa meeting last Monday. Bro Ric: Unsolicited advise for Capitol -- BALAS will exist for two more years. Suggestion to Atty Dabu, part of due process ang disciplinary action, yung hindi immediate ang pag-aalis…There is warning, first offense, second offense... Dabu: Civil service rules is different from the private sector… Myrna: patalastas – BALAS seems an exciting concept as a business enterprise… Let us study the business and income potentials of balas. Irwin:

Review of Milestones: 

Willingness to listen to one another

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BALAS willingness to pack up everything and to sit down to talk is highly appreciated

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Gov. expressed willingness to reinstate all those displaced for them to be able to “clear their names”

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This is the first time that we heard what Atty. Dabu actually feels, how she is hurting inside.

Setback: How to reinstate the workers with newly hired workers now in place. Among Paul: we request that ilabas ang lahat ng sentimyentong gusto pang ilabas from both sides… Still on the issue of the newly-hired checkers: Atty Dabu: we are having assessment at present so I don’t know right now how many are needed… and how many are in excess… Edu: Again I reiterate that we don’t plan to abandon post… I think the problem here is the very quick decision of ETP / Dabu to find new replacements. It may be true that there are those who did not go to their post on that day, but that is because of Atty Dabu’s announcement that those who joined the picket are fired.

With regards to the complaints, we have not disregarded the orders of Atty. Dabu. Whenever there are reports of illegal operations, we immediately respond to the reports. Among Ed: those who want to go back will go back… RECESS requested by BALAS. 3:27pm On the issue of preference: Among: we will give preference ang mga dating nagtatrabaho. Edu: Since namumrublema pa sa isyu ng pagpapasahod from the SP, baka pwede na sa Saturdays and Sundays na lang magtrabaho ang mga bagong hired? Among Ed: Agreed. Ave: this is a good opportunity to discuss the issue ng sahod. Mahirap talaga pagkasyahin ang kakarampot na sahod. This issue can serve as a wake up call for SP. Myrna: not only a wake up call sa SP, but if Atty. Dabu is right, we are thinking of a strategy on how to deal with the SP – we will meet as soon as we are done here to talk about this. Bro. Ric: the SP have with them documents on said anomalies. They may use those as reasons not to approve the budget for BALAS... Among Ed: while the focus of our talks is on the issue here, let me just inform you that on Monday there will be another dialogue. We request that the civil society be there to make the dialogue more productive... Among Deo asked if there Atty. Dabu would like say some more. Atty Dabu: (on the issue of the term “inefficient”) The context behind this statement is when Among Ed said “You mean inefficient ang mga tao natin?”... Hindi ko kayo pinabayaan. Ako mismo ang nag-iikot para malaman kung ano ang kailangan ninyo... If you are hurting, you think I'm not? You're not the only person here, I am also human. Fr. Deo: Let's heal... Wag na nating buksan ang sugat...

Edu: Why don't we have a Grievance Committee to discuss and settle issues? Atty Dabu: It does not work for government. Edu: kahit hindi na ko makabalik, pwede na po, pero tutulong pa rin ako, parang sa civil society… I want to make it clear that ano man ang inaaccuse sa akin, hindi po ito totoo. Paano kaya ibalik ang kakarampot na dangal?... Pause Edu: (to Among Ed) So, rehired na pu? Among: yes. Edu: when can we report? Dabu: it will take time, will have to arrange the schedules. Fr. Deo: RESOLUTION: Reinstatement of all workers. Back to work. Mike: Question. Those who will be reinstated, will they not have problem with Atty. Dabu? Won't they be given a hard time once they report back to work? Atty Dabu: like I said earlier, kahit nga ang mga sumama sa rally inirereinstate... and besides, I don't even know those who joined the rally directly. Ang mga supervisors lang ang nakakaharap ko. Hindi ko kayo kakilala. Myrna: Clarification: ang mga supervisors ay checkers na lang dahil sa sahod nila na P254? Atty. Dabu: Yes. Irwin: What will the process of reinstatement be like? Alex: can we not choose our own head? If such is the case, I will just join Edu. Among Ed: we will have investigation and assessment. Whoever is to be sanctioned and disciplined must be done so. In reorganization, kung maklaro ang mga pangalan ng mga supervisors, ibalik natin sa monitoring team leaders... (To Atty Dabu): When can we finalize the rearrangement of work schedules? Monday maximum, minimum Thursday? (Atty. Dabu nodded her head in agreement.) Bro. Ric: Suggestion: On their part, BALAS can also make and submit the list.

Fr. Deo: so as resolution: 1. Ipapadala ng BALAS ang names bukas. 2. Makukuha nila ang work schedules on Friday. 3. They will report on Monday. Dr. Sandico: sana sa susunod, before you go out to the media, makipag-usap muna kayo sa civil society... Myrna: I suggest that there should be someone in-charge of their welfare, like an HR, someone who can really take care of them... Romy asked for a 10-minute recess. Time resumed: 4:56 pm Edu: (to ETP) Gusto po naming ibukas ang mas mahalagang isyu. Sana po ay subukan nating maghanap ng kapalit kay Atty. Dabu... Habang naiintindihan ko na ganyan na kayo talaga, sa tingin po namin ay hindi po ito bagay sa inyong posisyon. Hindi po pwedeng sabihin at basta na lang tanggapin na ganyan na talaga ang ugali. Kahit gaano kasipag at kahusay si Atty. pero marami tayong problema dahil marami siyang hindi kasundo. Atty. Dabu: ako ba ang sinasabi ninyong dahilan kung bakit hindi magkasundo ang SP at executive? Among Ed asked if he can read the SP deferred budget. Among Ed: ... Marami ang nakabitin na pondo na hindi pa inapprove ng SP, hindi lang BALAS funds. Fr. Deo: ...let us avoid team fighting... let us choose our battles well... Can we spend another day to discuss the issue of SP and budget? Alex: Nakita natin na nakapag-express si Atty. Dabu ng sama ng loob niya. Ang hindi ko po makita ay ang tanggapin ni Atty. Dabu na mayroon din siyang mga pagkukulang... Edu: ang lahat ng pagkukulang, sa amin lang nabubunton. Pero bakit hindi natin tanggapin na meron kayong kasalanan? Alex: Wala po ba kayong pagkukulang sa Minalin? Atty. Dabu: My only problem is that I did not go to Minalin personally to make sure that the illegal quarry operation will be stopped. Edu: (to Among) Among, di po kaya pwede na magsakripisyo si Atty. Dabu?... Sa tingin po namin, hindi pwede bilang Provincial Administrator ang kanyang

ugali. Alang-alang sa totoong pagmamahal ninyo sa probinsya, kung meron pong mahahanap na kasing husay niya, pero may puso, at alam makitungo sa tao. Atty. Dabu: sa palagay ba ninyo ay hindi malaking sakripisyo sa akin ang posisyon na ito? Hindi ako naniniwala na maraming naniniwala na masama ang ugali ko.... May mga nagsasabi na maganda ang ginagawa ko... Matagal na akong nagsasakripisyo... Hangga't may taong naniniwala na tama ang ginagawa ko, nandito ako... Edu: iklaro ko lang po, hindi po kayo masamang tao. Pero hindi lahat ng pumupunta sa Kapitolyo ay kilala kayo. Among Paul: what you are saying is that hindi masama ang kanyang pagkatao kundi ang kanyang istilo... Dr. Sandico: nagtataka ako kung bakit pinapaalis ninyo siya... Hindi ko mapigil na hindi magsalita dahil ang nakikita nyo lang ay ang mapangit na ugali niya... Sana ay valid ang reason ninyo para masabi na dapat siyang tanggalin... Irwin shared his thoughts on the “quadrant” story. Irwin: ... Atty Dabu may not know that she has attitude problem. Among Deo and Among Paul also shared their views on this point. Alex: kung hindi kikilalanin ni Atty. Dabu na may weaknesses siya at willing na magreform, paano po ito sosolusyunan? Myrna: for me, I don't want to speak about what we at KCI raised to Among Ed on the issue of Atty. Dabu but I agree with Alex that kailangan talagang tanggapin ng tao na may problema siya bago ito maresolba... But when we are in government, we must be able to relate to other people, and to humble yourself enough to accept your mistakes... Tootsie: ang ugali ay hindi sapat na dahilan para matanggal ang isang empleyado. Pero looking at the bigger picture, ang nagiging resulta ng masamang ugali ay nakakasama na... may masamang epekto... May premise na maaring maresolba ang problema kung maalis si Atty. Dabu. We don't need unnecessary problems / hindrance... If I were in Atty. Dabu's shoes, if I see myself the reason for this, I would certainly give way... Knowing myself, I can still contribute – ang pag-alis sa posisyon ay hindi dapat maging dahilan para hindi makagampan ng tungkulin.

Ave: ang isyu ay paulit-ulit na lumalabas. Ibig sabihin, hindi talaga nareresolve ang problema. .. In the few days that they (BALAS) were there at the picketline, I saw that there is a strong support for the resignation / removal of Atty. Dabu. So for me, let's continue this dialogue... there really are many disappointments and perceptions, maybe through dialogues, baka luminaw pa.... Among Paul: can we make it specific? Masyadong general. Irwin: ang bahay na di mo na gusto, pero you can't tell what's wrong with it... gigibain mo ng buo? ... (putol, please check Karen's minutes) Fr. Deo: my position is to respect the decision of the person... Let us allow our governor to be the governor...Let us count our blessings first, all the other points, let's leave it to the Governor... Maraming nagbibigay sa kanya ng advice... I can only imagine what Among Ed is going through... Among Ed: Thanks for finally letting me speak. I am the same person. I did not change, it is not true that I don't listen. It's true that many give me advice. No matter what my decisions are, but through constant prayers especially before making these decisions, they are based on what God wants. If you are happy now, I am very very happy. I am happy that you told Atty. Dabu everything you want to say... While I respect KCI processes... and giving me a deadline... KCI reached their decisions without talking to her first. Although it's another matter... but I was really hurt. Why give me a deadline? What others tell you about me, it's ok, but I know myself... I asked Bishop Ambo to give PA a chance to speak for herself...Let us not stop listening to each other... ...sa Capitol, we have moved on. On the issue of PA, we have moved on.. whether we help or not, it's a big issue that we should discuss... Dilaab have moved on, ... GFN have moved on... Akbayan have moved on... On the issue of Bong Pineda, we have moved on.. Question is, how much time do we spend discussing all these issues... I thank everyone and let us congratulate ourselves that we are able to go through this very mature process.

Ave: just to finalize before we close, we agree on 1. Reinstatement of checkers; 2. Supervisors can be reinstated as Monitoring Team Leaders when BALAS restructuring is finalized; 3. The four dismissed checkers? Among Ed: Alisin muna ngayon. Documented for BALAS by Rochelle Aguilar