Nance, Cameron Ply

September 09, 2008

This is Detective Dan Alpiger with the Louisville Metro Police Department. Today’s date is September 09, 2008. The current time is 1110. I’m here in my car in the parking lot of Pleasure Ridge Park High School with Cameron Dural Nance in relation to case file #08-197, the death of Max Gilpin. Mr. Nance, are you aware this tape recorder is on recording our conversation?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

And does that meet with your approval?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

Okay for the record, please state your name and spell it for me.

Nance

Cameron Nance. C-a-m-e-r-o-n N-a-n-c-e.

Alpiger

N-a-n-c-e. And your birthday Cameron?

Nance Alpiger

Your address and phone number? x

Nance Alpiger

And before I started this tape, we discussed this just briefly. Is that correct?

Page 2 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

And at that time you told me that you were not at this particular practice that Max got sick in. Is that correct?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

Okay for personal reasons you couldn’t make the practice and it was an excused practice. Uh, so we’re gonna go just real briefly into how you know Max?

Nance

I just know him as a teammate. He was a good friend. We’ve had class together our freshman year and we was both offensive linemen. I didn’t really hang out with him that much for real. The one time I got to see him, I think we was at school and at football practice.

Alpiger

Okay, if you don’t mind I want to ask you again just make sure you speak up a little bit because this tape recorder doesn’t pick up that well and I’m gonna reiterate what you just said and what you told me earlier. This is your 2nd year at PRP, you’re a sophomore is that correct?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

Okay you played football last year as a freshman?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

Okay Max was on the freshman team last year with you also. Um, is that correct?

Page 3 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

You know Max from you having a few classes together with him?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

And from playing football last year and this year.

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

So although you don’t hang out with him you still consider him a good friend of yours; you share a lot of stuff in common, you had some classes together and had football practice together, you’re both linemen so you practiced the same things together.

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

O.K. Do you recall when your practice season started for this year?

Nance

Uh, we actually started conditioning and weight lifting in January, then I think it probably started about a month ago or two ago… it actually really started.

Alpiger

O.K. So you even last year as a freshman, you would uh, do weight training?

Nance

I wasn’t there at the time when they started weight lifting, I came in July.

Alpiger

O.K. So you started practicing in July?

Nance

Yes sir.

Page 4 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

Alpiger

Well do you know what day that was for the actual pre-season practice started?

Nance

After we came back from Georgetown. I can’t remember what day that was.

Alpiger

Okay you go to Georgetown in July?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

O.K. And practice started immediately after that?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

Okay, Georgetown what is that?

Nance

Georgetown is where we were went to go to just practice and all of us live together as a team and bond as a team.

Alpiger

A football camp?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

O.K. And your coaches are there with you?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

And pretty much the whole teams there that can get there?

Nance

Most of ‘em, except for some freshmen.

Alpiger

O.K. So when you get back from Georgetown, that’s essentially when your practice season begins?

Nance

Yes sir.

Page 5 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

Alpiger

O.K. And at this early practice, what’s the practice consist of?

Nance

Practically just…

Alpiger

On a—on a generally a daily basis, how is the practice broke down?

Nance

First we stretch and warm up, then we go to the team take-off, where we just go over plays and the defense on one side; offense on the other side of the field; we just go by ourselves. Then after that we go individual period, where we go with uh—with our assigned position coaches. After we do that we either uh, the lineman, Dlineman, they go against each other or gonna block and get him through the block. Then all the other people they go were 9 on 9 drills.

Alpiger

What’s a 9 on 9 drill?

Nance

Uh, it’s 7… 7 on 7 drills.

Alpiger

O.K.

Nance

That’s when we got offense on one side and defense on the other side, just line backers and defensive backs. Then the quarterbacks and running backs.

Alpiger

So this is a short team… 7 on 7… 7 on 7, 7 okay.

Nance

Then after that we go to team period where we just… just basic defense vs. offense, see where we at, then after that we go to conditioning and we’re through then in the conditioning and between each one after we get done with ‘em

Page 6 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

we go get water breaks. Alpiger

O.K. So because you don’t speak up very loud, I’m gonna try to go back over this and make sure I do this correctly. Once practice begins per day on a typical day, you do a period of stretching.

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

O.K. And after stretching, you break up into takeoffs; team takeoffs, where the offense goes to one part of the field, defense goes to another part of the field, and you do some… some skills practicing and things like that as a—as a team. After that, it is broke off again into individuals uh, skills like guards, you’ll do some guard training. Tackles, do tackle training, end will do end training, quarterback will do the… am I correct?

Nance

Yes sir, but before we go into the different places, different stations, before that we all just go water breaks, they give us time to get some water, we go back over.

Alpiger

O.K. So between each station there’s—there’s a break time?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

O.K. So you go stretching, take a break get a drink of water if you want one.

Nance

Team take-off.

Alpiger

Team take-off, which is you have individual teams, you’re not scrimmaging but you’re— you’re doing, running plays with offense

Page 7 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

running plays, defense running plays, individually on opposite ends of the field. Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

O.K. Um, how long does each one of these things last?

Nance

Usually around 30 minutes.

Alpiger

O.K. So after the 30-minute stretching, take a break; 30 minutes of team take-off, take a break and I can understand that these can take… some can take longer and some can take less.

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

About, okay, from team take-off you go and back into individual take-off.

Nance

Yes sir, by your assigned coaches.

Alpiger

Go to your line coach or your assigned coaches. You’ve got the defense coach, then you have the line coaches and vice versa so if you break down even smaller groups.

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

O.K. Where you do individual skills; take a break, get a drink of water, and come back and you go where from there?

Nance

Uh, well, we go to 7 on 7, and d-line doesn’t work this line.

Alpiger

Okay so after that you come back and it’s pretty much a scrimmage.

Page 8 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

Teams are… offenses are scrimmaging defense. Uh, lines are scrimmaging against the line, you have the... OK, 20-30 minutes later you take a break, and you come back for conditions.

Nance

And before we do conditioning we do the team, we do the team where everybody comes together.

Alpiger

Is that like a team scrimmage?

Nance

Um-um.

Alpiger

O.K. So then you get into an overall scrimmage. You have individual scrimmages; then you have… okay. So you’re coming after you take a break you come back and do a team scrimmage. I’m putting it in terms that I understand. Am I correct? Are we on the same page? O.K. From there…

Nance

We go to conditioning. Only, except, we don’t condition on Thursday before games.

Alpiger

O.K. And conditioning is what?

Nance

We run gassers, across the field and back, up there and back, then…

Alpiger

Gassers are—are pretty much running drills to your—your endurance up and your…

Nance

Stamina and all that.

Alpiger

Stamina, okay. Get your endurance, stamina

Page 9 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

and some, it’s not necessarily fine tuning your skills but actually just getting you in shape. Nance

And they’re not to what?

Alpiger

To keep you—to keep your heart moving and —and okay. So gassers are what?

Nance

Just running.

Alpiger

Is that basically the… the extend of your conditioning is to run gassers?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

You don’t do sit-ups, push-ups, jumping jacks, any calisthenics or anything like that?

Nance

After we get done with gassers we get a water break, then bring it over under the shade tree and we talk. Then after we get done talking, we do Abs work.

Alpiger

Abs work, which would be sit ups and crunches.

Nance

And all that.

Alpiger

O.K. The gassers are? Explain gassers to me?

Nance

This is where you start on a line… one side of the field, like out of bounds line, start on one side of the line, run across, run back; run back across, and run back.

Alpiger

So you run the width of the field 4 times?

Nance

Yes sir.

Page 10 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

Alpiger

And um, do you know how wide the field is?

Nance

No, I’m not for exact sure.

Alpiger

Is um, are gassers pretty strenuous… pretty labor intensive? Not really?

Nance

No sir.

Alpiger

How when you run the gassers, are you doing this constantly? How’s this? How’s this run?

Nance

After you get done, like they have the linemen go and all the runner backs, linebackers, quarterbacks and all them go after the linemen go.

Alpiger

So you have 2 groups?

Nance

Yes sir. But sometimes we have 4 groups.

Alpiger

So you have a group of people, a group of kids lined up on the—on the out of bound line—the side line and the whole group as a group runs to the opposite end of the field—opposite side of the field, they touch the ground there at the side line, run back, touch the ground at the side line and do that 4 times? When they get done, they go back to the end of the line and another group of people take off. Am I correct?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

O.K. And sometimes that’s 2 groups, and sometimes that’s 4 groups?

Nance

Yes sir, they break it down from varsity linemen and runner backs and all that for then the next 2 groups will be freshmen running

Page 11 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

runner backs and stuff. Alpiger

O.K. So if you finished running this line, this gasser… if you finished that, your 4 laps… your 4 uh, things, you get back at the end of the line, then you have time to re… catch your breath and relax and everything while the next group is running?

Nance

Yes.

Alpiger

You’re not constantly running for the whole time?

Nance

No sir.

Alpiger

Somebody else is running. Is it timed at all? Nobody’s trying to keep time or?

Nance

They keep time, yes sir.

Alpiger

They do keep time? So it’s beneficial to try to uh...

Nance

Beat the clock.

Alpiger

Try to… you’re not doing this as a slow job or slow paced, you’re trying to do this—this is uh, like a sprint. It’s like you’re trying to give everything you got, get done with it, and get back. Uh, you get back at the end of the line; you can be back there while the next 3 groups go individually, so you’ll have time to sit at the end of the line and—and catch your breath, cool off, while these other groups are going.

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

Okay and then eventually it’ll be your turn

Page 12 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

again. Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

O.K. About how many times you think you have to do that in a practice?

Nance

We do maybe 5 like or 6.

Alpiger

So you’ll do…?

Nance

It depends on what type of day it is.

Alpiger

O.K. Is there any time where if your coaches are uh, feeling that the team is—isn’t concentrating or isn’t uh, isn’t motivated that he’ll instill like more running and more gasses to kind of instill some—some uh, I guess the motivation into the team?

Nance

Not really, most of the time it is like the grass drills, a very chop your feet and then hit your chest on the ground and come back up.

Alpiger

Okay and that’s part of the conditioning? Or is that part of you…?

Nance

If you’re slackin’ around.

Alpiger

O.K. So if he feels like… if he feels like you’re, you individually are—are not giving…

Nance

As hard as you can.

Alpiger

The best effort that you can give that he may do, not necessarily punishment but an additional conditioning by having you chop your feet, dive to the ground, chop your feet, dive to the ground.

Page 13 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

O.K. And it’s just another fast paced type thing. Right?

Nance

Yes.

Alpiger

And it’s to get you to wake up to get you to focus, to get you back into, you know, the team. Concentrating on doing what the team’s doing. In a typical--in a typical practice how many times you think water breaks are given?

Nance

When you first get there, I’m exactly what’s (inaudible). 6 maybe, maybe 6.

Alpiger

Is there ever a time when uh, a particular athlete or particular team member maybe having a difficult time and request maybe another break and he’s ever denied?

Nance

Not really.

Alpiger

Let’s say if you just for some reason the heat is just uh, I wasn’t there, I don’t know what it was like. But and you weren’t there… you don’t know what it was like that day but let’s say on a typical day, you feel that for whatever reason this is just kicking your butt. And I need, coach, I need to take a break. Can I take a break? Has anybody ever been denied a break if they felt like they needed one?

Nance

None that I’ve seen before. They don’t over; I don’t know about the people that ask for water.

Alpiger

They do or do not?

Page 14 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

Nance

They don’t. They don’t ask for that much for real.

Alpiger

So as far as you know you’ve never seen that? Right?

Nance

No sir.

Alpiger

Have you ever noticed; had the circumstances where somebody on the team felt like, you know, I just can’t do this anymore and just walk off the team?

Nance

So, I’ve seen a few freshmen do that before.

Alpiger

O.K. And then its understandable freshmen don’t understand the difference between grade school football and high school football either and it’s new to them. The whole freshmen experience of high school could be new to them so its understandable that they’re… it may be overwhelming but it… does it happen very often that somebody walked off in the middle of the class? Yeah, I mean middle of the practice.

Nance

Not really, most stay though during practice, they either walk off the field or they just don’t come, they don’t come back.

Alpiger

O.K. So when a practice is over, they just chose not to come back the next day? Or you put more, a more likely scenario.

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

O.K. I know you weren’t there on this day, on this Wednesday evening. What time does practice usually start?

Page 15 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

Nance

Maybe around 3:00 or 2:40 maybe. It depends on if we gotta watch films or lift weights.

Alpiger

O.K. So at some point after school… schools out, what about 2:40?

Nance

2:20.

Alpiger

School gets out at 2:20? Uh, at some… right after school’s out, then you’ll have some time of either weight training or—or film.

Nance

After school’s out we mainly just go to our lockers and freshmen and upper classmen that’s having problems in class, their classes. They just go to a study hall.

Alpiger

Trying to make sure their academics are up to par?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

O.K. And then the rest of the team…?

Nance

Just go to a locker room to get ready.

Alpiger

Okay so you’re not required to do weight training?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

You are or not?

Nance

We are required to.

Alpiger

O.K. So after… just some point after you go to your locker you go, you go to the locker room and get ready, you go to the… either go,

Page 16 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

you either go to the weight room or you go to watch a film? Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

While the study halls going on. Once the study hall students come back, then you go outside and start practice?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

O.K. And so we’re talking it starts maybe about 3:30… 3:40 maybe?

Nance

Maybe around that time.

Alpiger

O.K. And how… what time does practice over with on a typical day?

Nance

Probably 6:00—6:30.

Alpiger

6:00—6:30? Okay. Have you ever heard of any circumstances where an athlete would be going to the water fountain and somebody telling him no, you can’t go yet, come back here and practice? Denying anybody an opportunity for the water break?

Nance

No sir.

Alpiger

For whatever reason maybe they weren’t hustling or maybe… you’ve never heard of a circumstance like that?

Nance

Not yet.

Alpiger

When you run your gassers, you do that and how are you dressed in a gasser during that course of gassers?

Page 17 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

Nance

It depends on what we in that day. If we go full gear, then we’ll break it up like some of the gassers in full gear—then he’ll take—tell ya take your helmet off then you’ll do some more. Then they tell ya to take your shoulder pads off, then you run.

Alpiger

So it gets a little bit lighter each time?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

O.K. And since this incident with Max, uh… has… as a team or individually at all, have you met with your coaches and maybe have— maybe may have given like a pep talk or something and try to explain to you guys, you know, that we did everything right, and try to influence what you’re gonna tell me today?

Nance

No sir, they just told us what the situation was. That’s pretty much it. The situation was with Max. Said they’re gonna have some investigators come in and gave us some papers that explained, explained that our parents what was going on.

Alpiger

Uh, how do you feel about your coaches?

Nance

To be honest, I like them all. I like all the coaches. I don’t feel no bad way about none of ‘em for real.

Alpiger

You know I don’t have any reason to believe that any one of your coaches would intentionally try to harm anybody but uh, do you ever feel like they may go over the deep end at any point and—and maybe run you guys too hard?

Page 18 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

Nance

No sir.

Alpiger

You don’t feel like that? And you don’t when the coaches told you, explained to this… explained to you they were gonna try to talk you guys that he didn’t tell you what you should try to say, anything like that?

Nance

No sir.

Alpiger

He didn’t try to explain to you, he didn’t try to… I’m not saying “he” I’m saying any of ‘em or anybody but nobody ever tried to explain to you or—or influence what you’re trying to say?

Nance

Just told me that if the media comes, just tell ‘em to ask, either ask him, the head coach or the principal.

Alpiger

Okay, they told you not to talk to the media and that’s understandable. Uh, but they never said anything like tell ‘em we did this, or tell ‘em we don’t do that or tell ‘em, you know try to explain to you things that weren’t necessarily true?

Nance

No sir.

Alpiger

Okay, it didn’t happen? Cameron, is everything you told me the truth to the best of your knowledge?

Nance

Yes sir.

Alpiger

O.K. And is there anything that you think that would be relevant to this or important that you think we need to say, that we didn’t discuss?

Page 19 of 19 Statement: Case #08-197a / Cameron Nance Date: September 09, 2008

Nance

No sir.

Alpiger

All right, Cameron, I’m gonna conclude our interview. I really appreciate you sticking this out with me. For the record our ending time is gonna be 1134.

END OF STATEMENT File #08-197a-alpiger-ie