T8 B22 Filson Materials Fdr- Interview Of Maj Gen Mckinley And Leslie Filson

9-11 Commission Interview Major General McKinley (1AF/CONR Commander) & Leslie Filson TAPE SIDE A F: Can you talk about the importance of Northern Command. M: Well, I think the issue with Northern Command is again a post 9-11 realization that the whole world is now a battle ground and that what we use to consider as protected land between the two great oceans is no longer protected and is vulnerable to those who would use our infrastructure and our commerce and our economy to do us harm. I would think also that North Comms mission of protecting the vital infrastructure of the United States is a after math of 9-11 in that we saw what three airplanes highjacked by terrorist can do to our infrastructure some of our national symbols that are revered, but most importantly to the innocent men and women who were just doing their jobs that day in those facilities. So, we have seen our own United States flagged aircraft turned against us and turned into bombs - aerial bombs that were used to send a message to us that we were no longer safe in our home. When that happens, the government must take swift action to set up a defense against that type of activity and North Comm is the offshoot of that political reaction to those terrorist events. How sometimes in some of the speeches I make and I know it is not historically accurate but it makes the point that not since George Washington have we had a military commander in charge of US forces in garrison at home to defend American citizens from people who would do the harm. So the significance to me in North Comm is that our government decided and our president decided to put a four star general in charge of the forces in garrison to place homeland security number 1 on the things that a government must do in order to protect its citizens. F: Sir, will the commander always be the commander of NORAD? M: The way the architecture was designed is that the commander of NORTHCOM the combatant commander will be dual hated as the Commander in Chief of NORAD and we can still say that today and that may not be the way it will always be cause the bi-national agreement between Canada and the United States still calls General Eberhart CINC NORAD and Combatant Commander of Northcom. So that will be a dual hatted role that will continue. F: Has the ?? at Northern Command ment changes at 1AF and CONR. M: 1 get to set in a lot of conferences with a lot of my joint counterparts, the Navy and the Army. I will tell you that the changes that I see are far less than the changes that I see, because we have been operating in this NORAD environment since 1958. The air piece is the most mature piece of the land, sea and air triad. So when we say we are going to defend America, the air piece has been in being for many decades. The Army and the Navy piece is just now being formed, the command and controls units are being formed, the lashups (?) with their units are being formed. I have a far greater advantage

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than my counterparts on how North Com and the responsibilities of North Com what they mean to me and my organization, but there are parts of North Com which directly affect the United States only mission that are different. The way we look at that is that NORAD handles defensive missions of North America. North Com handles defense missions against North America that are US only events but also offensive capacities designed to prevent attacks against North America, so we can go out and deter the attack before it occurs. There are subtle changes with North Com that we have reacted to but they are less severe than my other service counter parts. F: What are some of the important themes right now at 1AF. Things that you think need to get in this book, like your long term goals and some of the big changes that might come about in the future. M: I think what's important that the legacy that I will have as the Commander of 1AF and the Continental NORAD Region is that we will take this numbered Air Force and its architecture with its sectors and fighter units from a twentieth century organization designed primarily to defend against a cold war construct (i.e. the soviet union) into a twenty first century organization in which we create a defensive posture that protects Americans, Canadians and possibly anybody in the Western Hemisphere from attacks against their citizenry or their infrastructure. That's going to create and require a dramatically new set of visionary goals. That's where we are today, charting what this organization is going to look like in 2008, while we are still fighting the air war over North America. So we've got a huge task at hand to defend North America right now against the war on terrorism, the second front I call it and also to posture our organization for the future which will demand that we use technology, people and infrastructure to defend against threats that only months ago we believed would never occur. F: Sir, why 2008? M: 2008 for me is important because it is was within a palming cycle or a budgetary cycle which we could go after funding to actually purchase the vision. That if we agreed on the vision then we could programmatically put in place the means to fund the equipment and the facilities that would enable us to carry out strategies. F: Okay M: It is also a period of time in our military structure in which you can have some effect and see some positive change - five years is a period of time designed to implement change, develop doctrine and concepts of application and actually see those things come to fruition. That's why we picked 2008, we started it the end of 2002, we are into 2003, so that 5 year window is now upon us. F: Can you talk about some of those possible changes in doctrine and concepts? M: Well we know that technology will allow us to radically transform the way in which we see the air traffic over North America. As a result of 9-11, commercial off the shelf

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architecture has come to our region and sectors which allows us to do a far more efficient job of controlling and monitoring and identifying traffic not only outside the boarders but inside. So once that architecture is purchased in mass, we have the ability to reform, reengineer, reshape ourselves with the manpower that we have into a doctrinally correct United States Numbered Air Force. That doctrinally correct architecture will be just like our Air Forces in Europe and our Air Forces in the Pacific and we will present Air Force forces which will include Active Duty, Air National Guard, and Air Force Reserve to the combatant commander of North Comm and NORAD in a way that the Air Force presents its forces everywhere. That has never happened. It never had to happen, but it is a requirement today because the United States of America and North America is now an Area of Responsibility assigned to a four-star general. F: It is almost like this is a war theatre now. M: It is, it absolutely is and Americans are slowly coming to the realization of that. That the war on terror is a long hall nothing short term that we are going to be facing this terrorist threat for probably our lives and the lives of our children. That will have to remain vigilant around the clock for many many years and never get complacent and never believe that we aren't vulnerable. The technology, people and architecture needs to be reshaped so we can protect Americans at home as we prosecute the war on terror overseas. F: Does that lead into my other question on changes in command and control?

M: You bet F: Some other things that you wanted to mention on that or? M: What it leads us to believe is possible is to create and redraw the lines of control over the 48 contiguous United States. It allows us to see Puerto Rico, the United States Virgin Islands, the base a Guantonomo (?) provide a protective air cover for the territories of the United States that are in our AOR. It allows us to consolidate on the East Coast as well as we did in 1996 on the West Coast by creating computer that lets us monitor traffic out of one facility and do the air operations center activity from the people who may have been their battle manager before. So the reorganization as result of technology allows us to become a Numbered Air Force an Air Operations Group, an Air Force Forces Staff that makes sure that our airman in the field are well taken care of. That we can design strategy and concepts of operation that allows us to prevent acts of terrorism rather that just respond to them. It allows us to posture our force structure for Air Combat Command because the commander for ACC is now the commander of Northern Air Forces. It allows us to posture those force for the commander of Northern Air Forces in a like way that the commanders in Europe, the Pacific, Central Command and other combatant commanders see Air Forces also. So we finally become transparent to the way that the United States Air Force does business in all of the theaters that they are asked to perform in.

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F: Someone mentioned to me a bigger central operations there at Tyndall, is that the same thing? M: In our vision, we see a new Air Operations Center being built, we believe that Air Operations Center should be built at Tyndall because the connectivity, the hardware and the decentralized control that Tyndall offers is already here that the new Air Operations Center should combine the talents of the present Air National Guard organization that's here with the new capacity that the new Air Operations Group allows it to perform and that we allow the technological improvements to create an environment where the Eastern zone of the United States is controlled from one sector and the Western zone by another, command and controlled by a strong full-time robust full spectrum Air Operations Center. F: Would that be two sectors in the country then?

M: Uh, Uh F: Sir, how far along has this plan - is it in the beginning stage or? M: Well you have to create a vision, so is vision is formed. You have to get advocacy for the vision, we have seen most of the senior military officers that would need to be in the approval chain for the vision. We have also seen both active guard and reserve commanders so that we don't leave anyone out of this new organization because we are defending America and everyone should have a responsibility for defending our homeland. It is not just the guard or the active or the reserve component, we need blended structure, which means a more blended structure than we presently have. We've talk to senior national guard officers because the greatest impact would be to some of the Air National Guard organization presently structured. We have spoken to political delegations in states that would be either positively or adversely affected by this move and we spoke to local civic leaders in the cities that would be affected. So we are along the path, but we are not any where near the completion of the vision because remember the timeframe 2008. F: Right M: We need a new building. We need technology improvements which should be on the books and purchased and on the shelf by the end of this summer of 2003. So we have put into place all of those things which will allow us to become that full partner in the homeland defense mission that General Eberhart at North Com will require us to be and General Hornberg at ACC will require us to be as his component to Northern Air Force. F: Does this vision have, do you guys have a name for it? M:: Actually is a vectored evolution vision is what we are calling it. It isn't total transformation because we haven't created anything new, but we have evolved in a

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strategic way what we have had into a more modern efficient way of presenting forces to best meet the needs of the new century. F: This is a big step, this is a lot to write about. M: And while we are doing that, we are fighting day in and day out the war on terrorism. So it is not exactly without a price to pay on our people. We are expecting them to perform flawlessly, make no mistakes, zero defects in a war that we are only beginning and we are trying to redesign our architecture on the fly without stopping the day-to-day activity so we have something at the other end that's meaningful for the DOD and USAF. F: All these things will have to be approved at the highest levels? M: Absolutely F: The question - are there any plans for equipment changes, I think you answered it. M: Well we have answered the sensors that allow us to see from the ground tracks from the air. There are so many new enhancements that I would like to see developed such as loitering sensors that remain at high altitudes for long period of time, long duration that look down and are not having to be serviced from the ground environment. That can stay in the air for days and months possibly like an airship. I also would like to see space become a place where we can develop sensor technology that will allow us to see tracks that are much smaller than we see today. So that we can engage at range with fighters that have weapons systems and radar systems that can be effective against those kinds of future threats. We have to have emerging technology that will allow us to prosecute cruise missiles and ballistic missiles which countries like North Korea and others are testing as we speak. So we are just on the verge of modernizing equipment which starts with sensor technology but we also have to have aircraft, radars and missiles that can engage at range to prevent these nations without orders, these road nations and nations that have decided that they are against our way of life from doing something very damaging to some of our major cities and causing great damage to our people and to our economy. We are just on the beginning of the technology enhancements that will make us a very very different organization in the next 8 to 10 years. F: September 11 th has led to what's happening now, I guess the question is no that we would never go back to 7 alert sites. M: We can't ever afford to ever have a defensive posture that doesn't recognize that there are people, entities, cultures and ideologies that would do use harm. Our number one goal must be to protect the American way of life to partner with our Canadian allies and hopefully future allies with countries like Mexico and others in the hemisphere, to protect the Western Hemisphere from surely what will be a continued attempt to change the way in which we project United States power at home and abroad.

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F: Even now if you are out telling people about/! AF, maybe people who don't know about it, do you say hey we have| [7 M: Well we don't advertise the numbers but we advertise the capacity and capability has dramatically improved since 9-11. I will tell you that on the Friday before September 1 l lh which would have been the 8th of September, the Secretary of the Air Force Jim Roach and our Chief of Staff at the time and now General John Jumper said recently that they were contemplating not having to afford or pay for any air defense alert sites in the Continental US or the command and control architecture, because there wasn't a foreseen threat and that on Tuesday September 1 l lh that entire rational was totally affected by the terrorist attacks and that we performed absolutely the best we could on that morning but we can never allow ourselves to become cavalier or complacent about the fact that there is a threat to our citizenry and it is at home as well as abroad. I don't think that we need to dwell on the numbers of alert sites, but we have to have enough based on creditable and actionable intelligence to protect the US of A and Canada and hopefully other countries in that hemisphere that feel and act like we do. F: Do you think the Air Sovereignty mission is forever changed and will continue to look inside and outside?

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M: Yes, and even as important, how we prosecute tracks of interest with our interagency partners is forever changed- That's another dramatic step forward that will have impact into the out years is our relationship with transportation security administration. Born after 9-11 the Department of Homeland Security, the fact that we will work with Customs and FBI and FAA in ways we never dreamed we would. We have become America's NATO in that we are a center piece and working with interagencies just as our partners in Europe work with various countries to defend the North America's Treaty Organization, we have America's NATO where we work with all these other agencies that touch this mission from Law Enforcement to military, from local first responders all the way to the DOD and the POTUS and we will be challenged to continue to work collaborately together to produce the best possible security system for North America that we can. F: 1 think the Olympics was a good example of that too. M: The Olympics was a great first example and we'll have to take the Olympics to many many levels higher than that as we look at defending special events, special meetings of national leadership, significant infrastructure that we have around the country and other things that will require a robust defensive posture. So you bet Air Sovereignty has changed forever. F: Yea, it seems obvious from everything that you just told rne. M: Not in my lifetime and probably those of our children will we ever see us have an opportunity to maybe turn the wick down a little bit. This is going to be a very very lengthy process.

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END OF SIDE A BEGINNING OF SIDE B F: Are there anythings that you personally want to say about Operation Noble Eagle (ONE)? How the folks are performing, about the mission, that you would like to see in print? M: I certainly as the commander of 1 AF and CONR and the Joint Force Air Component Commander for ONE on behalf of Generals Eberhart and Homberg thank the men and women, the units, the states who are supporting us with tanker and fighter and airborne early warning and air defense artillery and air control squadron people. We have done a remarkable job of security our air space since 9-11 against potential further attacks. We have flown as of this date the 26 February 2003 over 27,750 sorties in defense of critical infrastructure and population centers in North America and we have plans to continue to proactively defend this nation against all threats whether they come from outside our boarders or from within and the dedication, skill, patriotism and the fact that we have done this without a single mishap to-date is a remarkable testament to the great skill and loyalty to the people out there doing the job. I would just like to as of this date, thank everyone for that effort and to tell them that we can't rest on our laurels and we are going to continue to be challenged and just because we have not suffered a reattack doesn't mean that people aren't out there planning, plotting and strategizing the next event. We must stay vigilant and focused and support the POTUS and the Secretary of Defense in the war on terrorism. Because it is probably the most significant war my generation has ever fought. F: Are there any other things that you would like to add? Then I have one other question that I didn't have written down before. M: Sure, I think that pretty much sums up my thoughts in terms of the people and the organizational structure and what we have. I think that everybody can sense form my comments their that I'm deeply appreciative to what effort is being contributed. Also the fact that the taxpayer of America is strongly behind what we are doing and that is evident everywhere we go and everybody we see in airports and around the country. So that support is deeply appreciated also. I think that pretty much sums up my feelings as of now. F: Is there somebody that you can recommend I talk to that could give me some specific examples about the technology changes might be? M: I think Col Mike Corbit, my vice commander can be the best person to kind of walk you through the things that we envision will come to our floors and our fighter units over the next three to five to eight years. F: The things you told me about Switching to one big AOC and two Air Defense Sectors, is that pretty much out there. Do most people know about it?

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M: Yes F: Okay M: We have not really designated how that's going to be done, but geography certainly points to the fact that if the region stays in Florida then we probably for convenience and for ease of operation, need the operations center co-located with the Numbered Air Force in the region. So Florida would be the logical choice for that consolidation. F: Then the HEADS would be the? M: The N(?) would be the Eastern Air Defense Sector. F: So SEADS and NEADS would just become one? M: EADS and WADS F: Okay M: When is the book going to be published do you think? F: Probably in six months.. M: Then you can go ahead a write that that's my vision. That's what's on the books, now it could change, but as we sit here today that is the best logical choice for vectored evolution. F: Can you speak briefly about the role that CONR plays with the Ballistic Missile Defense System? M: Well as the Joint Air Force Component commander, my responsibilities include now

F: Has 1AF been able to employ!

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F: M:

F: We were able to employ that on September 1 l lh , is that true? M: You probably have to ask Scotty or Dan on that, but I believe we employed it after September ll l h , yes. F: What I'd like to do is in this book I'll write a few smaller side bars that are just smaller stories within the book andj |is one of them. M: Great F: So I wanted to get your comments, and what I can do sir is when this chapter 5 is written and when thisj pide bar is written I'll just shoot them to Louis or to your email box. M: Great F: That way you can make sure that your comments are presented as you wanted. M: Great F: Is there anything else that you wanted to add. I think I've questioned you to death. M: No, you have kind of gone soup to nuts on me it's good. F: I'm definitely glad I tape recorded it. M: Well if there is any questions that you have or you hear something that doesn't quite make sense, just call me back anytime and we'll get it cleared. F: 1 really appreciate your time, I know you are super busy. M: Thanks for your time too and we look forward to the product. F: I do to sir, I think it is going really well. I am very excited about it. M: Super

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F: Thanks a lot. M: Thanks a bunch F: Bye, Bye M: Bye. End of Tape Side B END OF INTERVIEW

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