T5 B1 Cockburn- Carl Fdr- Entire Contents- Emails- Questions- Dos Interview Request 082

Joanne Accolla From: Sent: To: Cc: Subject:

10:30 is fine. > > > > > > > > > > > >

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Cockburn, Carl S [[email protected]] Thursday, October 16, 2003 7:01 PM 'Joanne Accolla'; 'Susan Ginsburg'; Tom Eldridge' Hofmann, Karl W(S/ES); Borek, Jamison S (SBU)(L/LM, Room 3422) RE: 9-11 Commission DOS interview request no. 9-Responses are due by Tuesday October 7 I do not believe that special facilities arrangements are necessary.

Original Message From: Joanne Accolla [SMTP:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:01 PM To: 'Cockburn, Carl S'; 'Susan Ginsburg1; 'Tom Eldridge' Cc: 'Hofmann, Karl W(S/ES)'; 'Borek, Jamison S (SBU)(L/LM, Room 3422)' Subject: RE: 9-11 Commission DOS interview request no. 9--Responses are due by Tuesday, October 7 Thank you Mr. Cockburn. Would it be possible to start the interview at 10:30 a.m. rather than 9:30 a.m. on October 29? Also, please let us know if you think we need to conduct the interview in a SCIF so that we may make those arrangements. Thank you.

Original Message From: Cockburn, Carl S [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 7:03 PM To: 'Joanne Accolla'; 'Susan Ginsburg'; 'Tom Eldridge' Cc: Hofmann, Karl W(S/ES); Borek, Jamison S (SBU)(L/LM, Room 3422) Subject: RE: 9-11 Commission DOS interview request no. 9--Responses are due by Tuesday, October 7 Ms. Accolla, Please schedule my interview as indicated in your Oct 15 message. Thanks. > Original Message > From: Joanne Accolla [SMTP:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 3:57 AM > To: 'Cockburn, Carl S'; 'Susan Ginsburg'; 'Tom Eldridge' > Cc: 'Hofmann, Karl W(S/ES)'; 'Borek, Jamison S (SBU)(L/LM, Room 3422) > Subject: RE: 9-11 Commission DOS interview request no. 9--Responses > are due by Tuesday, October 7 > > Mr. Cockburn - we would like to schedule the interview for > Wednesday, October 29 at 9:30 a.m. at the Department of State. > Please let us know if > this time is convenient for you. > > Mr. Hoffman and Ms. Borek - if you do not have a conflict with the > date and time, we would appreciate it if we could reserve a > conference room at the > State Department for the interview (we will not need a SCIF). Thank > you for your assistance. > > Joanne M. Accolla > Staff Assistant > National Commission on Terrorist

.401 . 1774 > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> ----- Original Message ----> From: Cockburn, Carl S [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 3:06 AM > To: 'Susan Ginsburg ' ; 'Joanne Accolla'; 'Tom Eldridge ' > Cc: Hofmann, Karl W(S/ES); Borek, Jamison S (SBU) (L/LM, Room 3422) > Subject: RE: 9-11 Commission DOS interview request no. 9--Responses are > due > by Tuesday, October 7 > > Either on Wednesday, October 29 or Thursday the 30th, I could do > this. We > could arrange a mutually convenient time and I'd raise issues of > concern with Tom Eldridge. > Carl Cockburn > > ----- Original Message ----> > From: Susan Ginsburg [SMTP : [email protected]] > > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 7:52 PM > > To: 'Hofmann, Karl W ' ; 'Cockburn, Carl S (Manila) '; 'Sarkis, Saadia E' ; > > 'Borek, Jamison S (SBU) (L/LM, Room 3422) ' > > Cc : 'Elliott, Susan M' ; 'Romano, John A(L/LM)T; ' CA-Staf f ers ' ; > > [email protected]; 'Joanne Accolla'; 'Tom Eldridge' > > Subject: RE: 9-11 Commission DOS interview request no. 9--Responses > > are due by Tuesday, October 7

> > > Carl, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > (In case you have not already heard from one of us) Thank you for > > your telephone message about your availability for an interview with the > > Commission during your transit through DC Oct. 27. Joanne Accolla will > > be > > in touch about setting up a mutually convenient time for the interview. > > The > > subject is Saudi visa policy pre-9-11. > > > > Feel free to be in touch with Joanne about the arrangements, and > > with > Tom > > Eldridge [email protected] 202-401-1686, about the > interview.

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Susan Ginsburg Original Message From: Hofmann, Karl W [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 2:50 PM To: Cockburn, Carl S(Manila); Sarkis, Saadia E; Borek, Jamison S (SBU)(L/LM, Room 3422) Cc: Elliott, Susan M; Romano, John A(L/LM); CA-Staffers; '[email protected]'; '[email protected]' Subject: RE: 9-11 Commission DOS interview request no. 9--Responses

are > > due > > by Tuesday, October 7 > > > > > > Carl:

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f-401-1747, to see whether there is any mutually convenient > > time > during > > that week when you could meet with them? (I'm assuming you'll be > > in DC. > > If > > not, please state.) Then let us here know (Jamie Borek in L and > > me) so > > that > > we can arrange for an agency rep to be there, and so that we can provide > > you > > ground rules. Susan Ginsburg should be able to indicate in more detail > > what > > they would like to cover with you. Thanks.

> > > Karl Hofmann > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Original Message > > > From: Cockburn, Carl S > > > Sent: Friday, October 03, > > > To: Sarkis, Saadia E(S/ES-S); > 3422) ; > > > Hofmann, Karl W(S/ES) > > > Cc: Elliott, Susan M(S/ES-S); > > > Subject: RE: 9-11 Commission 9--Responses > > > are due by Tuesday, October 7

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2003 1:08 AM Borek, Jamison S (SBU)(L/LM, Room Romano, John A(L/LM); CA-Staffers DOS interview request no.

> I am scheduled to be in the U.S. on R&R travel during the week > of October > 27.

> > > >

Joanne Accolla From: Sent: To: Cc: Subject:

Sarkis, [email protected]] Wedj3esttSy7OctoBer4^ 2003 3:18 PM [email protected] Hofmann, Karl W; Borek, jjamison S (SBU)(L/LM, Room 3422); Elliott, Susan M; McCray, I. Jean; Cockburn, CarlS^Manila) RE: 9-11 Commission DOS interview request no. 9-Responses are due by Tuesday, October

Joanne -Per youf e-mail request - - w e can make Conference Room 7262 available to you for this interview^ 726j^feas been set aside as a reading room for use by the 9-11 Commission here at State. S^tecTse contact Jean McCray at 647-3574 ([email protected]) to arrange access to the room. Let me know if I can be of further assistance. Thanks. Original Message From: Hofmann, Karl W Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 10:26 AM To: Sarkis, Saadia E Cc: Elliott, Susan M Subject: FW: 9-11 Commission DOS interview request no. 9--Responses are due by Tuesday, October 7 Saadia, could you please follow up with L and perhaps INR to see about where we could hold this interview? Thanks. Original Message From: Joanne Accolla [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 3:55 PM To: 'Cockburn, Carl S'; 'Susan Ginsburg'; 'Tom Eldridge1 Cc: 'Hofmann, Karl W(S/ES)'; 'Borek, Jamison S (SBU)(L/LM, Room 3422)' Subject: RE: 9-11 Commission DOS interview request no. 9--Responses are due by Tuesday, October 7 Mr. Cockburn - we would like to schedule the interview for Wednesday, October 29 at 9:30 a.m. at the Department of State. Please let us know if this time is convenient for you. Mr. Hoffman and Ms. Borek - if you do not have a conflict with the date and time, we would appreciate it if we could reserve a conference room at the State Department for the interview (we will not need a SCIF). Thank you for your assistance. Joanne M. Accolla Staff Assistant National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States 202.401.1774 [email protected] Original Message From: Cockburn, Carl S [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 3:06 AM To: 'Susan Ginsburg'; 'Joanne Accolla'; 'Tom Eldridge1 Cc: Hofmann, Karl W(S/ES); Borek, Jamison S (SBU)(L/LM, Room 3422) Subject: RE: 9-11 Commission DOS interview request no. 9--Responses are due by Tuesday, October 7 Either on Wednesday, October 29 or Thursday the 30th, I could do this. We could arrange a mutually convenient time and I'd raise issues of concern with Tom Eldridge. 1

Message From: Susan Ginsburg [SMTP:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2 0 0 3 7 : 5 2 PM > To; 'Hofmann, Karl W ; 'Cockburn, Carl S(Manila) ' ; 'Sarkis, Saadia E ' ; > 'Borek, Jamison S ( S B U ) ( L / L M , Room 3 4 2 2 ) ' > Cc: 'Elliott, Susan M ' ; 'Romano, John A ( L / L M ) ' ; ' C A - S t a f f e r s ' ; > [email protected]; 'Joanne Accolla'; 'Tom Eldridge' > Subject: RE: 9-11 Commission DOS interview request no. 9--Responses > are due by Tuesday, October 7 > Carl, > > > > > >

(In case you have not already heard from one of us) Thank you for your telephone message about your availability for an interview with the Commission during your transit through DC Oct. 27. Joanne Accolla will be in touch about setting up a mutually convenient time for the interview. The subject is Saudi visa policy pre-9-11.

> Feel free to be in touch with Joanne about the arrangements, and with > Tom Eldridge [email protected] 202-401-1686, about the > interview. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Susan Ginsburg Original Message From: Hofmann, Karl W [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 2:50 PM To: Cockburn, Carl S(Manila); Sarkis, Saadia E; Borek, Jamison S (SBU)(L/LM, Room 3422) Cc: Elliott, Susan M; Romano, John A(L/LM); CA-Staffers; '[email protected]'; '[email protected]' Subject: RE: 9-11 Commission DOS interview request no. 9--Responses are due by Tuesday, October 7

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

Carl: Could you please be in touch with the Commission's Susan Ginsburg at 202-401-1747, to see whether there is any mutually convenient time during that week when you could meet with them? (I'm assuming you'll be in DC. If not, please state.) Then let us here know (Jamie Borek in L and me) so that we can arrange for an agency rep to be there, and so that we can provide you ground rules. Susan Ginsburg should be able to indicate in more detail what they would like to cover with you. Thanks.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> Original Message > From: Cockburn, Carl S > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 1:08 AM > To: Sarkis, Saadia E(S/ES-S); Borek, Jamison S (SBU) (L/LM, Room 3 4 2 2 ) ; > Hofmann, Karl W(S/ES) > Cc: Elliott, Susan M(S/ES-S); Romano, John A(L/LM); CA-Staffers > Subject: RE: 9-11 Commission DOS interview request no. 9--Responses > are due by Tuesday, October 7 > > I am scheduled to be in the U.S. on R&R travel during the week of October > 27.

Karl Hofmann

Thomas H. Kean CHAIR

Lec H. Hamilton

DOS INTERVIEW REQUEST NO. 9

VICE CHAIR

Richard Ben-Veniste Max Cleland Fred F. Fielding Jamie S. Goiclick

The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (the "Commission") requests interviews with the following Department of State officials during the weeks of October 13, October 20, or October 27. Please provide a proposed date, time, and location for these interviews no later than October 9, 2003, if possible. The anticipated length of each interview is two hours.

Slade Gorton John I^hman Timothy J. Rocmer James R. Thompson

Philip D. Zelikow EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR

1. George Lannon 2. Catherine Barry 3. Travis Farris 4. Karl Wycoff 5. Charles H. Brayshaw 6. Albert A. Thibault, Jr. 7. Richard.Baltimore 8. Arthur Mills 9. Carl Cockbum 10 11 12. Thomas Krajeski 13. Michael Polt 14. Charisse Phillips The Commission anticipates that classified information may be discussed at these interviews. The Commission reserves the right to re-interview these individuals based on the results of the requested interviews and the needs of the Commission. September 30,2003

Daniel Marcus General Counsel

TEL (202) 331-4060 FAX (202) 296-5545 www.9-11 commission.gov

Joanne Accolla From: Sent: To: Cc: Subject:

[email protected] Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:04 AM [email protected] [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] DOS interview request no. 9

DOS interview request no 9.doc...

Karl: Attached is DOS interview request no. 9. Please call Susan Ginsburg at 202-401-1747 with any questions about the topics to be covered and to make arrangements for these interviews. Feel free to call Dan or me as well if any issues arise. Thanks. Steve

Carl Cockburn General work and ed background When in SA, Jeddah What training before arrived? InSA? UBL? What was organizational structure? Who was above and below in CA world? Section Chief over: EEs El-HinnJ^ | What was visa policy in SA and from where did it derive? Oral history acquired at post?

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Role of INS in confirming assumptions? Was it interview by exception? j~~ I

rar(J,C.

2000 Riyadh 02002 makes mention of "general inapplicability of Section 214(b) to Saudi Nationals."! I
\d you ever discuss refusal rates with a CO?

What is your view on whether the consular interview is a useful way to ferret out terrorists? Have you ever been involved in applications where an interview led to a denial based in part on suspicions someone was a terrorist? Where and when? Should there be more training on interview techniques? How physically did the NIV process in Jeddah/Riyadh work while you were there? Furey says there was "virtually no input from his political section or other agency colleagues regarding potential Saudi terrorists or criminals." True?!

Did CA officers work with other agencies on visa issuance in Jeddah? j

j

Aware of any programs involving interviewing of extremists?! What were your sources of intel on UBL? CLASS? Viper? Station? Awareness of UBL activity in SA? During summer of 2001, SS all alone in Jeddah consulate (Mills on home leave)?\ Describe changes brought by Visa Express? Required TCNs to make two trips - one to travel agency and one to consulate for interview? Did it result in more work for the COs? Visas to hijackers Incomplete applications not unusual? Lies about no prior visa unusual? Post-9-11 what happened? Impression nothing was changed in SA, then congressional heat, then change for no good reason in TARP program, true? COs in Jeddah felt somewhat betrayed by Department? Why?

DHS relationship

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