Stinson, Jason Defendant

September 14, 2008

...is Sergeant Denny Butler with the Louisville Metro Police Department. The date is September 14th, 2008. The time is 11:39 am. I’m located at 239 South 5th Street, Suite 1916, in the Kentucky Home Life Building in Mr. Alex Dathorne’s office.

Butler

Mr. Dathorne, can you spell your last name for me?

Dathorne

D-a-t-h-o-r-n-e.

Butler

And we are here in reference to the events of August 20, 2008 that occurred during the PRP football practice, and also present is the Head Coach Jason Stinson, and Mr. Stinson, would you state your full name for me?

Stinson

Sure, it’s David Jason Stinson. S-T-I-N-S-ON.

Butler

And your date of birth?

Stinson Butler

Okay. And your home address?

Stinson

9005 Wooddale Louisville 40272.

(W-o-o-d-d-a-l-e)

Drive,

Page 2 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Butler

And your phone number?

Stinson Butler

And where are you employed?

Stinson

I’m employed at uh, part of Jefferson County Public Schools at Pleasure Ridge Park High School.

Butler

OKAY. And you’re also Head Coach?

Stinson

I’m also Head Football Coach at PRP High School.

Butler

Uh, Football team?

Stinson

Correct, sir.

Butler

Um, with that and Mr. Dathorne’s your attorney; correct?

Stinson

Yes sir.

Butler

And you all have agreed voluntarily to give a statement?

Dathorne

Yes, that’s correct.

Butler

Great. Um, if I could just direct your attention back to… uh first of all let’s go through your background.

Stinson

Sure.

Butler

How long have you been in football?

Page 3 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Stinson

I’ve been in football 25 years.

Butler

Okay. How about as a coach?

Stinson

I’ve been a coach at PRP High School for four years. I’ve been an Assistant for three; Associate Head Coach for three years and Head Coach, this is my first year as the Head Coach.

Butler

Okay. And prior to that?

Stinson

Prior to that um, I have youthfully experience, churchly experience, and plain experience at that point.

Butler

Okay. August 20, 2008?

Stinson

Sure, uh August 20, 2008 started off almost like any other normal day. Uh, at 2:30 to 2:50 our guys that are not involved in study hall, which are all of our freshmen and all of our upper classmen that either had D’s or U’s last year are required to go to study hall from 2:30 to 3:10. The rest of the guys come to the locker room to 2:30 to 2:50, they get ready they get prepaid for the day at that point to go uh, practice. At that point, I do not notice Max. I don’t see Max. Uh, I don’t see him at that point. Now at that point at 3:00 o’clock we break up into two groups. There’s a film room and a weight room. I supervise the film room and the other two Assistant Coaches uh, supervise the weight room.

Butler

And who would that be?

Stinson

That would be uh, Coach Donnelly and uh,

Page 4 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Coach Donnelly was there today because Coach Cook was in study hall. Coach Cook supervised the study hall; Coach Donnelly supervises the weight room with Coach Lightle and then I supervise the film room. At that point, we probably got roughly around 60 or 65 kids in two groups, offense and defense. The defense goes to the weight room, the offense goes to the film room uh we’re there. I do not notice Max there at that point. Now but Max is the kind of kid if you don’t see him, you wouldn’t notice him. Uh, don’t notice him at that point. At probably 3:23—3:25, we switch groups. The defense comes to the film room; the offense goes to the weight room. At that point, and then we have film at that point so they’ve all left and probably around 3:00— 3:40—3:45ish at that point. I send everybody over to the locker room to get ready to be on the practice field at 4:10. At that point, I leave the film room and walk directly to the practice field, so I arrived at the practice field at 3:45 uh, talked to Coach Webb about moving some blocks that are on the soccer field, and he asked can we help him out and I said well sure. Butler

And that would be Craig Webb. Correct?

Stinson

Craig Webb.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

So I go to the field uh, probably at 3:45. I do my temperature and heat readings at that point on my board, mark ‘em down, put ‘em in the shed, where we always keep our temperature heat readings during practice, our clip board, and then at that point, I go from the field to the

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empty lot. There’s an empty lot where we keep buses and things; that’s where we’re gonna stack the blocks. And as the boys come from the locker room, you know anywhere from 3:50 to 4:10, I tell the varsity guys go over to Coach Webb, get a block bring it over and we’re gonna stack ‘em right here so nobody comes from the soccer game and falls on a block. Butler

Uh-huh.

Stinson

So the Varsity guys each get a block and bring it over. Uh, well I look over and we still got a huge stack of blocks. I tell ‘em to go back and get another block so they bring it back. So at that point, we’re probably 4:10 to 4:15 at that point. I know we’re behind schedule because we put out a daily schedule each day. I know we’re behind schedule at that point. So the Varsity guys get done uh, moving the blocks. I tell them to meet under the goal post, where we meet every day, break it down and we start to (inaudible). The freshmen are still with Coach Webb at this point moving blocks. So they’re —they’re still under his supervision. They’re not practicing with us at this time. They come over to us, you know, they move blocks for maybe another 15 or 20 minutes. They come over to us around 4:35 or 4:40, that’s the freshmen. Uh, at that point, I’ve seen ‘em moving blocks, seen ‘em going back and forth and also they got water while they’re working with him. Our group of Varsity guys huddles up under the goal post probably about 4:20. At that point uh, our guys break it down and we go into teams—team stretches is what we call it. So we spend from probably 4:20 to

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probably 4:30 in team stretch. Uh, it’s just a light stretch, a light jog, things of that nature. So we’ve got that timeframe at that point. Um, after team stretch, we go into what’s called team take-off, we break up into offense and defense of groups. We’ve got two groups; usually we have three because we have the Varsity, the JV and the freshmen offense. The Varsity, the JV and the freshmen defense. They line up on the 10; they run a base play, sprint through the 10 yard line, turn and go back to the huddle. They do this for probably 10 or 15 minutes, so at this point, you know we’re probably around 4:45—4:50 at that point. And then what we do at that point is we send 'em to individual. Now at that time is when we have our first scheduled water break. So the kids go to water at that point. Now at this point, we break up in to individual teams. You have an offensive line, defensive line, the linebackers, defensive backs, wide receivers, and quarterbacks. At this point, I coach the wide receivers. Butler

Let me, let me back you up for just a minute.

Stinson

...Sure...

Butler

You're doin' offense, Varsity, JV, freshmen...

Stinson

...Right... Team...

Butler

...offense/defense.

Stinson

Team take-off's.

Butler

Okay.

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Stinson

Yes, sir.

Butler

Then they get a water break...

Stinson

...Correct...

Butler

...then they come back...

Stinson

...Correct...

Butler

...and split off to their positions?

Stinson

...To their individual positions.

Butler

What is that called?

Stinson

Uh, individual period...

Butler

...Okay...

Stinson

...is what we call it.

Butler

Alright.

Stinson

We call it an individual period. So at this point everybody is grouped up by their position. So you've got the offensive line, you've got the defensive line, you've got the linebackers and DB's, quarterbacks, and wide receivers. At this point, I'm in charge of the wide receivers. Uh, we do about five to seven minutes of ball drills, uh, just throwin' the ball, catchin', turnin', catchin' and turnin', and catchin' and tuckin' and runnin', so we do that for probably five to seven minutes. At that point, each coach has the ability to send the kids to water, whenever. So once we finish our ball drills, I send my wide receivers to water.

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Butler

And quarterback...you have quarterback?

Stinson

Steve has the quarters...Coach Deacon...Coach Steve Deacon has the quarterbacks.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

They also go to water at that point. 'Cause at this point they're not, they're stretchin' their arms. They're physically stretching, but at that point, I send the wide receivers to water. We come back and we run our routes, so we run uh, we start off with our, our progression of routes. We start off with simple, then we go to the hardest routes we run, that's post, which is 14, so at that point we do that with the quarterbacks. At that point, we send those guys to water again, after we're done with that. So we've gone through individual, we have a scheduled water break, we go to individual period, we have two unscheduled water breaks for the wide receivers and quarterbacks.

Butler

Right. Now when you're at the individual practice, do you have freshmen, JV, varsity/

Stinson

We do. We do...but at this...

Butler

...You do. But they're all inter-mingled, but it's for position.

Stinson

...But...it, it's inter-mingled by position...

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

...but at this point, uh, uh...they're startin' to kinda trickle back over from coach Webb, you

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know, you guys...see, we break our freshmen in to groups is our freshmen have white jerseys on and our varsity have black jerseys on... Butler

...Right...

Stinson

...so we can tell what group is what. You know, and we also group our kids individually and we also group our kids by skill. We don't take a freshman offensive lineman and put him against a varsity defensive lineman. It's just not, it's not safe.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

So at this point we go back to individual and we have what's called a seven on seven period, where we get together with the uh, defensive backs...

Butler

...Let me back you up for just a second.

Stinson

Okay.

Butler

Who's in...the individual position?

Stinson

Sure. Individual position coaches.

Butler

Let's run through the coaches who's, who's got what responsibility?

Stinson

Okay. Uh, uh...Coach Donnelly and Coach Hiser...uh, Coach Donnelly and Coach Cook in charge of the offensive line. Uh, Coach uh, uh...Hiser's in charge of the DB's and the uh, uh...line backers. Uh, Coach Bobby Deacon is in charge of the running backs. Uh, Coach Steve Deacon is in charge of uh, the uh,

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quarterbacks. Uh, I'm in charge of the wide receivers, and Coach Lightle is in charge of the defensive line, and uh, Chris Webb...Coach Webb helps us with different things, you know. Butler

And he just...

Stinson

...He's, he's...he's a guy that helps with new equipment...

Butler

...And he's not an official coach. Right?

Stinson

Correct. Correct.

Butler

He just kind of a worker bee.

Stinson

He helps us with whatever needs to be done. Most of the time it's taking care of our equipment, organizing, getting things taken care of and done...

Butler

Who had the defensive linemen?

Stinson

Uh, Coach Lightle.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

It's L-I-G-H-T...

Butler

Uh, yeah. I...

Stinson

...L-Y, I think.

Butler

So during, during the individual, they, they kinda cut...I...

Stinson

...They cut 'em loose...they, what they use, the way individual usually works, and just from

Page 11 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

my experience, 'cause up to this point, I've always coached the offensive line. So up to this point, I've coached Max for three years. So the way the individual period works is once a coach usually finishes a drill, they'll send 'em to water and bring 'em back. Once a coach usually finishes getting something done, they'll send 'em to water and bring 'em back. Now. Sometimes after a, a certain uh, drill, they may not, if they go right to another one, but the coaches always take the scheduled water breaks. That's why they're in the schedule, that's why they're written in the schedule, and that's what they're for. Uh, the unscheduled water breaks can range anywhere from three to five per period, and you're talkin', you're talkin' probably a 30, 30 to 45-minute window time of when we have... Butler

...But you're not breakin' as a team. Yes.

Stinson

...No. We, we've broke uh, after uh, team takeoff's, we've gone to water, uh, and uh, during individual we've gone to water and then right before team period we go to water on our scheduled water breaks.

Butler

Alright. Let me back up for just a minute.

Stinson

Sure.

Butler

The hy...I can't pronounce the daggon...

Stinson

...Hygrometer.

Butler

that's it.

Stinson

Correct.

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Butler

Were you the one that took the reading?

Stinson

Correct.

Butler

Where did you take that reading?

Stinson

Right uh, you've seen our practice field?

Butler

Yes.

Stinson

When you walk on the practice field, there's a grass area right there, the hygrometer is uh, uh...I keep it in the shed...

Butler

...Right...

Stinson

...uh, and I carry it back and forth with me because if it gets kicked, about three weeks beforehand, it got kicked in a hole. And I couldn't find my hygrometer so I had to go in and actually get it out of the hole and find it, there's a hole in the shed, so I found it and carry it back and forth. I always come out and the first thing I do is I take the reading with the hygrometer and I write it down. And...

Butler

Where, where are you actually taking the reading, though?

Stinson

Right there...right there in the grass. It's right, you know, there's a...

Butler

...Just from the shed...

Stinson

Right. There's a shed right here...

Butler

...Right...

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Stinson

...and there's a tree right here...and right there on the grass, because we're supposed to take the reading which simulates practice conditions. And the grass right there, it's off the blacktop, it's off, we take the reading at that point and, and make the recordings and go from there.

Butler

Okay. I apologize.

Stinson

No, not a problem.

Butler

Alright. So we're done with individual positions...

Stinson

Okay. At individual positions, we're probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 4:20, uh, 4:20...'cause I remember lookin' down at my watch and we're behind...or 5:20, I'm sorry...

Butler

...Yeah...

Stinson

...uh, I look down at my watch and I notice we're supposed to be going to team at that point. Now what team is, is...we all come back together and you've got the offense and the defense. We practice against each other. So at 4;20, they take their manor, their scheduled water break they get...

Butler

...5:20.

Stinson

...5:20. I'm sorry.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

At 5:20, they take their scheduled water break,

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they go back over as a team. Butler

But let me back up a minute.

Stinson

Sure.

Butler

You go, you go through individual position...

Stinson

...Correct. ..

Butler

...then they come back and usually and that's seven on seven.

Stinson

Well, what I do...seven on seven is a, is a point when you just have the uh, wide receivers, running backs, quarterbacks, skilled positions on offense...

Butler

..Okay. Did y'all do that that day?

Stinson

We did.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

We did do seven on seven, and then at that point, once seven on seven's done, we send 'em to water...

Butler

...Let me, let me stay with the seven on seven...

Stinson

...Sure...

Butler

...for a minute.

Stinson

Okay.

Butler

Who, who's playin'...

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Stinson

...Uh...

Butler

...Ma...for the record, Max was what position?

Stinson

Max is an offensive lineman.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

He's not in, he's not involved at this point, he's still in with his individual offensive line coaches because he's a, he's a non-skilled position, he's a big guy.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

So he's still with his offensive line coach, he's still with coach Donnelly...

Butler

...And that would be the seven on seven?

Stinson

Correct. It's, it runs uh, seven on seven runs, and you'll see uh, kind of give you a timeline of frame...when we do our seven on seven, our schedule is O line versus D line, so sometimes they come together and do work together, do pass rush or one-on-one block. So while the skilled guys are workin' against the defensive skill guys, you got the big guys workin' against each other.

Butler

Right.

Stinson

So and then at that point, their coaches are, are...are workin' with them and takin' care of them.

Butler

So just clar...when, when seven on seven starts...

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Stinson

...Correct...

Butler

...you've got like the receivers being guarded by the defensive backs...

Stinson

...The defensive backs. Yes, sir.

Butler

And they're workin' against each other's position...

Stinson

...Yes, sir... Yes, sir... Pa, where ba, where basically seven on seven's basically pass, pass routes and pass protection.

Butler

...Okay. And at that point, who would have the offensive line/defensive line?

Stinson

Uh, coach Cook, Coach uh, uh...Donnelly, Coach Lightle.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

And be assisted by Coach Webb also. Those, those four guys will be together.

Butler

Okay. Uh, and then you've got the...

Stinson

...We've got the running backs, the wide receivers, the uh, uh...quarterbacks, and Coach Hiser's also there with us with the defensive back for the line backers and the de...'cause that's who he coaches at that point.

Butler

Okay. So we're doin' seven on seven?

Stinson

Correct.

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Butler

and then take me from...

Stinson

...At that, at that point, seven on seven lasts uh, we pro'bly get to seven on seven about uh, you know, 4...4:10, 4:15, somewhere around...

Butler

...5. 5...

Stinson

...5:10, 5:15. I'm sorry about the time.

Butler

that's okay.

Stinson

5:10, 5:15...uh, at that point uh, we do seven on seven for pro'bly 15 or 20 minutes. Uh, we work together. And then we send 'em to water, as a group. And at that point, I always blow the whistle and tell coaches, team, five minutes. Water 'em down. So we send our wide receivers and running backs and defensive backs and everybody to water, and then they send the offensive and defensive line to water for a scheduled water break.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

Uh, so at that period. Uh, now I look at my watch, we're pro'bly about 5:20, and when they start to head over, they co me back, it's pro'bly 5:25, 5:20...somewhere in that nature...and I tell 'em offense up, defense get the skivvies on. Well, at this point, we're just meanderin' around. They're not runnin' back, they're not comin' back, I told 'em get where you gotta go. And at that point nobody moves. So again, the second time I say offense huddle up, defense get where you go. They're still walkin'. So at that point we're pro'bly around 5:30, I, at that point, I tell 'em on the line. And we put 'em on

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the line, and uh, and on the line, if you're familiar with the football field, you got sidelines and end lines. We're on the sidelines uh, right there. We're in groups of two... Butler

...You're on the, they're lined up on the sideline between...

Stinson

...Soccer...and there's a soc...there's a, there's a soc...

Butler

...soccer and football.

Stinson

...this is the soccer field...

Butler

...Right...

Stinson

...this is the football field, they're lined up right here and this is the soccer field.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

And they've come back from water, which is over here, so they've walked over...back to where they're at...

Dathorne

...You want him to draw a diagram?

Butler

No, we're good.

Stinson

We're uh, uh...so they've come back to water, we usually have team right here on this end goin' in, uh, so they're supposed to be there. So we're not gettin' where we're goin', I tell 'em on the line. So at this point, we put 'em on the line in two groups. And they know we're gonna run. You know? They know we're havin' conditioning, they know at that, at that

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point. So we have two groups. We have little guys and big guys. little guys are the skilled guys...they're the uh, they're the running backs, the defensive backs, the quarterbacks, everybody that's not an offensive or defensive line that are tight end. Sow e have two groups that are running. Uh, or conditioning at this point. and a gasser, what we're gonna run is a gasser. Gasser is across the field, back, across the field and back. that's one. Uh, at this point, we line 'em up on the sideline in groups uh, and we start to run. Now usually our little guys run it anywhere from 42 to maybe 52, somewhere in that timeframe...uh, we don't time 'em that day. It's just a...it, it goes from, you've got guys runnin' like they're supposed to, you've got guys that are joggin', you got guys, some guy's walkin' at this point. So we're runnin' two groups. Now it takes the little guys pro'bly a minute, minute and 20 to run...soon as they finish, give 'em a chance to get out of the way so the big guys can get up on the line, we let the gig...big guys run theirs. So the big guys usually run in about a minute...anywhere from 52 to a minute...that day they're pro'bly runnin' anywhere from over a minute to a minute and 35, minute and...you know, some...like I said...some are walkin', some are runnin'. So we go through this process, uh, we go through this process uh, eight times with each group. So we run from about 5:30 to about 6, 6:05, somewhere in that nature. But you gotta understand there's two groups. So each group's runnin' about 15 minutes with breaks in between each one. They're not runnin' consistently... Butler

right. Light finishes, heavy goes.

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Stinson

Correct. Yeah.

Butler

Heavy finishes, light goes.

Stinson

There you go. So you do that. And then there's also probably, you know, 15 to 20 seconds in between each group to give the, the guys that finish time to get out of the way...so the guys behind 'em can get up on the line. You know...at that point. So we go through eight of these, uh, and a normal day of practice, 'cause you gotta understand when we put 'em on the line at 5:30, we still have practice scheduled up to 6...6:10, 6:15. So we've missed all of base period and team period. So we've not practiced but an hour and, you know, an hour and 10, hour and 15 minutes. So we put 'em on the line and each day we usually run between six and eight in full gear. that day we ran 12 full gassers. We ran eight with our equipment on, then after the eighth one we took their helmets off...and set those down. We ran two more, uh, and then we took their shoulder pads off...and then we ran two more. So that day they ran about 30% more than they would on a normal day when they practice for the full, the rest of the 45 minutes. So uh, they run their gassers. Now during this point, uh, Antonio Calloway was down on the other end of the field. We have several guys uh, several players, uh, uh...Jake Healey and Hibbs...as were runnin', and as this is the football field, I'm always standin' in the middle and we've got coaches on one side where they're at, and then coaches on the other side of where they're at, at that point. So uh, as we're runnin', uh, I look over and there's a couple of freshmen under the

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tree and I ask Coach Bobby, I said, why are those guys out? He said Jake Healey's having trouble with asthma. He said I took him out and gave him water. I said fine. He said Hibbs is sick at his stomach. I said...he took him out and gave him water. I said fine. Just leave 'em under the tree. I also had four uh, three boys that were injured. Uh... Dathorne

Do you remember who they were?

Stinson

Yeah, I've got it written down. Uh, to be exact...uh...Sam Ellis was one...uh, Sam Ellis was one...uh, Taylor Banks was one...and uh, Demetrius Moore was one. Demetrius had a shoulder, Sam had a knee, and Taylor had a (inaudible). Uh, they came to me before...they lined up to run. And I said you three, you're injured, you need to go in to the house and, and take it in to the training room where they got the whirlpool and they also had stem at that point. Uh, then we also had two boys uh, D. J. Horn and Kyle Frames, that had to leave for work before we started runnin'. They came up and said coach, we've got to go to work. And I said see you guys later. You know, when you get back, uh, 'cause they left for work. so I sent uh, those five in uh, three to the training room and two to work, uh, and then you also had the two freshmen under the tree that uh, they couldn't do. Now. At about eight, I had one young man uh, Deandré Cole, that said coach, my asthma's actin' up, I can't breathe. My question to him was, do you have your inhaler? He said no, I don't have my inhaler. And my, I told him stand right there where you're at. Don't run. Stand there where you're at. And then another kid uh, Christian Vincent,

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about half nine in to it, he said, coach, he said I'm havin' trouble breathin'. I said do you have...he said my asthma. I said stand right there. Now at this point, as we're running uh, Antonio Calloway, the other young man that was, went, went in the ambulance, that never did collapse, but went in the ambulance, he was runnin' full-speed. And after about eight, I said send Calloway under the tree and to get some water, 'cause he's doin' exactly what he's supposed to be doin'. He's...I guess you could say he's being rewarded for participating. Uh, also uh, there's a freshman, uh, Jacob Roberson, he took him out after about six, 'cause he sprinted all of his. Uh, and there were several other guys I sent over, because they ran full-speed. I can't, I can't recall who they are, uh, but we sent those guys over underneath the tree uh, to get water and, and to sit down till we finished. so at this point uh, we get to about uh, we're right at about nine or ten, and I've got a group of about eight guys. Uh, they're my athletes, they're my guys, they can go all day, but they're also my guys that are kind of a little bit of goofy. Uh, uh...so I look down and they're on the end and they're... Butler

When you say the end...

Stinson

Uh, if we're on the, if we're on the practice field...

Butler

Down by the tree end?

Stinson

No, no...down by the uh, they're pro'bly on about the 30-yard line, goin' down, 'cause the youth league is down in the other, we've got a youth league team that's practicin' from about

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the 20 end, and they're warmin' up and stretchin', so we're really between the 20 and the tree at that point, and we kinda go by the freshmen are up closer to the tree. and after about...I'd say it's after about six or eight, Coach bobby Deacon took the freshmen out uh, because they're younger, uh, their endurance is not what they want, he took the, the younger kids out and gave those kids water...and uh, they were kneelin' down, waitin' for us to, to finish. But at about nine, I had a group of about eight guys just walkin' and laughin' and talkin' and doin' nothin', so I go out to them and we're pro'bly...if this is the field, I'm pro'bly on about the 40 right now, and I tell them to stop. Now the other guys at this point, are running. So I kneel, I'm knelt down on a knee, and I told those guys, stop where you're at, and the other guys, I told 'em to continue runnin'. Coach Donnelly, at this point, is supervisin' and I'm watchin' those guys. And I told those guys, get your feet movin', we're gonna do up-down's, because you all can't do what you're asked to do. So at that point we're on about #10. The gasserwise. We've already taken...you know, we've already taken their helmets off and after that, when I'm tellin' Coach Donnelly to take their shoulder pads off, and they take their shoulder pads off, those eight or ten guys right there, uh, were doin' up-down's. And up-down's is when you chop your feet and you hit your belly and you get back up. Butler

Would these be light or heavy?

Stinson

Oh, the light guys? Oh, they're, they're the little guys. The guy...

Page 24 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Butler

...That are doin' up-down's?

Stinson

...The eight, the eight that I've got are doin' updown's are the little guys. Uh, so as they're runnin' #...#11 and #12 gasser without their helmets uh, these guys are doin' up-down's. They do pro'bly between 14 to 18 up-down's at that point, you know. And I think I had a freshman said somethin' to the nature, said uh, uh...uh, uh...we're not gonna quit, we're not gonna quit. and I just said, you know, we're gonna do, we're gonna do these up-down's until you all get it right and till you guys start doin' what you're supposed to be doin'. So at that point we're doin' those, I know we're only runnin' 12 with these guys. So at that point when they're finished, they stop, I stop this group o' guys. We're done. So at that point we finish with that. Uh, I think I had one kid walk off. Before we started the runnin', I told the guys, I said if anybody wants to leave now, if anybody wants to quit, feel free to leave now. Feel free to leave now. Just drop your equipment under the tree and walk out the gate. We, we tell our guys from day 1, I said there's no reason for you to do this runnin' and then quit. You might as well, if you're gonna, if you got ambitions to quit just quit now and leave and go off the field. So at that point I had one kid uh, I think it was David Englert, that was in that group of eight, I think he walked off...and I think uh...

Butler

..At what point did he walk off?

Stinson

Uh, almost at the very end. He never said I quit, he never said I'm done... We were just

Page 25 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

gettin' to the point where we were finished and he walks off and another kid follows 'im...uh, at that point. Butler

Do you remember who followed him?

Stinson

I think it was Chris Bryant. I'm not sure...

Butler

...Okay...

Stinson

...but I think it was David and Chris that walked off. Uh, so at that point we say we're done. I told the guys, 'cause we're finished with our 12 over here, I told the guys, get your equipment...meet me under the shade tree at that point. So let's get your equipment, meet me under the shade tree...so as this group is walkin' off, they're walkin' to get their equipment...and if this is the soccer field and this is the football field they're walkin' down through the football field, and as I walk by, I walk by and take kind of a left to go under the shade tree. 'Cause we always have team meetings after practice is over with. So at this point we've run for probably 30 minutes as a team, 35 minutes as a team, each group's pro'bly run anywhere from 15 to 17 minutes as, as far as that. And untimed conditioning. So at that point I tell 'em to meet me under the shade tree...uh, 85 guys go where they're supposed to go. The group...I had about four or five, the, the guy, the little guys that are goofballs, that are not doin' what they're supposed to do...they must have walked over. They walked over between the soccer field and they were walking to the water. And I was underneath the shade tree. So the 85 came to the shade tree and I see those four walk over to

Page 26 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

the water. So I walk around the shade tree, right through where you come in to the gate, and those four are in the water drinkin', and I tell 'em, you guys need to get to the team meeting, you need to get out of the water and be where you're supposed to be. 'Cause we always have our team meeting and then we give 'em a break to go to water at that point. None of those guys said coach, can I go get water? None of those guys at the, at the water said, coach, I'm not feelin' good, I'm not doin' it. None of 'em said, you know, can I go over there. max was not one of the four or five guys over there. It was the, it was the ones that were doin' the up-down's. It was all athletes. So as I walked over to the shade tree, I walked past Max. and this is probably 6:05, to 6:10, somewhere in that nature. So I walk past max. At this point, Max is finished running. He finished...he finished what we asked him to do. He's walkin', he's breathin', he's sweatin', he never says coach, I don't feel good. Coach, nothin's goin' on. He walks, he's walkin' with the rest of 'em. Now at this point I go underneath the shade tree to wait for the guys. 85 guys come over, I go to the water and tell those four or five, get to where you're supposed to get. Be where you're supposed to be. At that point max is not under the water, he's not with, he's not with the ice bags, none of that. I go back to...I had to go back to the tree, probably 6:10, somewhere around in there, we have our team meeting, three, four minutes...tell 'em, you know, not satisfied with the day, not happy with the way we practiced, we conditioned because we couldn't practice, uh, we need to get better 'cause we got our second scrimmage comin' up. Break it down,

Page 27 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

clear the field. So at this point once we break down and clear the field, they're free to go to water all they want. Uh, they can walk over and take it and do what they please. And they cleared the field. So at this point, probably 6:10, 6:12, at that point, they're startin' to clear the field, get the water, pick everything up from the day. I walk, I stand right there and supervise as they're cleanin' the field. Nobody comes up and says we've got an issue, we've got a problem...at this point I think everybody we have is there. Uh, no other coaches were contacted. So as I come back, it's pro'bly, it has to be after 6:17, because as I go back to the shed, I walk around the tree...and as I go back to the shed to make sure the shed's locked and to pick up my clipboard and hygrometer, I see Max and, and Antonio at the water. It's, a gaiter is a big golf cart. The gaiter's pointed uh, I wanna say the gaiter's pointed north or south. and it's sittin' towards the water. The front of it's sittin' at the water. and Max is sittin' in the front passenger seat. Uh, he's got his legs up over the top of the gaiter, his dad's at his feet, his shoes are off, his socks are off, all he has on are his pants. He's got ice bags on his necks...his shoulders, his uh, his uh, crotch area...he's got ice packs, and they've got the water constantly over top, top of him...talkin' to him uh, makin' sure he's alright. At this point. At this point, he's, he's all...he's not passed out. Uh, I'm not a medical person, I'm not a, at that point...at that point, I say have we called 911 and Steve says yes, and I check with Coach Deacon, he called 911 at 6:17. And at that point, he's being iced down, he's being watered down, Antonio's on the back of the gaiter behind Max. He's sitting with his feet kind of

Page 28 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

on the ground and settin' up, workin' with his breathin'. Calloway, from what I've been told, and what I saw, once I went, he never lost consciousness. He never collapsed. He never went down. He was just on the back, hyperventilating and trying to catch his breath. He told us Grandma's phone number, he told us Grandma's name...he told us where them all was at and that's who we called. We called Grandma, say do you wanna transport him to the hospital with, with Max? And she said yes, so that's, at that point he was gone, 'cause they're askin', the EMT's askin', they said, do you wanna take him, too? And we said, you know, at this point, we called Grandma and she said take him too. so at this whole time, Max, Max is being administered to and being assessed, uh, they've checked his pulse, uh, they're tryin' to get him uh, to respond and things of that nature, and at this point he's conscious, and uh, he's being administered aid to. Uh, uh...and at that point, uh, Mr. Ellis is there with him, uh, Coach Webb, uh, AD is there with him, Coach Bobb, the assistant AD is there with him, uh, his dad is at his feet, uh, and Coach Steve is there uh, he's already made the EMS phone call...to the EMT's in there, and I come up and stand, stand on the side. The EMT's arrive, uh, it's somewhere between 6:20, 6:30, somewhere in that nature, uh, they get Max, uh, they put a, a bag of oxygen on him, put him on a cart, take him over to the uh, EMT wagon, uh, put him in, they come back and say do you want him to go and we say yes, take him too. They say we've got room, they put a air bag on Antonio, he walks over, climbs in to the ambulance...Max's mom, Antonio, Max, uh, leave for the ambulance. Uh, at that

Page 29 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

point, as I'm walking off the field, uh, I've got my clipboard and my hygrometer, I take another reading, 'cause I've got two guys that have gone down. Uh, so I take another reading at that point and record what it is and what they went down and what they had on and what was goin' on. I walk over to the locker-room, at that point, and Coach Webb's there...uh, it's probably 6:30 uh, 6:35, at that point...and uh, he's, they've been taken to Kosair...and I said, I had a copy of the practice schedule layin' on the desk 'cause I have, whenever I print a practice schedule, I print six copies. I hang a copy up in the locker-room for the boys to see when they come in so they understand what we're doin' that day, and I have four other copies on the desk for the other coaches, and I have a copy for myself that I put in my pouch so as we're goin' through the day, I can look and say, oh, that's 4:20, this is where we should be at. (Flips paper). Uh, I take the copy and I hand it to Coach Webb and I say, here's our schedule. this is what we did today and this is where we're at. Because I, at this point, you know, I've got two guys that have gone down, so in case he's got any questions, when were the water breaks, what were they doin', where were they at, because he wasn't at practice. He was over...if this is the soccer field, and this is the practice field, he was sitting here on the gaiter, watchin' the soccer practice at that point. So, you know...Now. After Max goes down, I can't tell you when he went down, nobody said, hey, coach Stinson, Max is down. Nobody said Coach Stinson, Max is strugglin'...nobody said anything. The thing I know is we have the team meeting, and then as I walk back around the tree to supervise, he's at the water being

Page 30 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

taken care of. And that's the first time I know that we have an issue with either boys, you know. You know. Nobody said, hey, Coach...somethin's goin' on. From what I've been told, uh, when Max was walkin' to the team meeting, he went down. Coach Webb and coach uh...uh...Bobb were on the gaiter, they came immediately over, uh, Mr. Ellis and Mr. Keown kinda scooped Max up and put him in to the gaiter, and then took him uh, and started administering the ice bags and the water and all that stuff. Butler

Okay. Uh, now for some u h, specific questions...

Stinson

...Sure...

Butler

...uh, if you, unless you need a break or anything.

Stinson

Uh, no, I'm fine. Uh...

Butler

Okay. Uh, conditioning...

Stinson

...Correct...

Butler

...uhm, you're on the center of the field.

Stinson

Correct.

Butler

Who else is in the center of the field with ya?

Stinson

Uh, at that day, Coach Hiser had left at about 5:25, he had a meeting he had to go to, so he had left that day. He had been with us up to that point...uh, Coach Donnelly is there with

when

you

all

go

in to

Page 31 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

us...uh, myself, coach Donnelly, Coach Bobby's there...uh, Bobby Deacon, I'm sorry...uh, Coach Cook was actually uh, uh...striping the field at that point, he was uh, he stripes the field when we do conditioning or we do specials, he'll stripe the field... Uh, and then Coach Steve had come back out uh, of the locker-room, he had been attending to those guys that were injured, that we sent in. He put a stem on one, and uh, then he had come back out of the locker...he's our, he's our trainer, he's our guy that takes care of those... Butler

So if somebody's injured...

Stinson

...Correct...

Butler

...he's the one that would...

Stinson

...He would, he would be the one that would uh, well, he would be the one that we would call uh, but if a guy goes down, the position coach is the guy that's there. He's gonna be boom and, and help take care of that kid, you know, and no, and no coach is gonna walk by a kid on our staff and go, that's Steve's job. You know. If a kid goes down, they're gonna do...and that's where coach Donnelly was at that day. I believe, from what I've been told, you know, that Coach Donnelly, once Max went down...Coach Donnelly was there with him and started to check his vitals, check his sign, you know, think about first aid and things, and then Steve was there also, and then uh...

Butler

Steve...

Page 32 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Stinson

...uh, Deacon. Steve Deacon.

Butler

...Deacon...

Stinson

...and then you also had Steve Ellis and Mr. Keown, who actually, I think scooped him up...like I said... I didn't see when he went down, I didn't see when he was actually put in to the gaiter, you know, from...

Butler

...Now when you're doin' the up-down's with the eight or ten...

Stinson

Correct...

Butler

...where are you located at?

Stinson

I'm pro'bly...

Butler

...in relation to Max?

Stinson

...uh, I'm probably on the 40 and he's pro'bly on the other 40, so I'm probably maybe 20 yards from him.

Butler

and you're...

Stinson

...I'm on a knee...

Butler

...you're between the football field and the soccer field.

Stinson

No, I'm...if this is the, if this is the soccer field and the football field, I'm right here...I'm right here and Max is right here...

Butler

...Okay...

Page 33 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Stinson

...and I'm pro'bly 20 yards from him. The guys doin' up-down's here. I'm still facin' the guys that are running.

Butler

So they're doin' up-down's in the middle of the field.

Stinson

...They're doin' up-down's, they're doin' updown's right around me. they're, they're pro'bly three quarters of the way over. So they're doin' up-down's uh, on this side of me. And basically blow the whistle, they're hittin' the ground, I'm still watchin' my guys run; 'cause at that point, I know that once we're at 12 we're done.

Dathorne

Yeah.

Butler

right.

Stinson

And once these guys are, once we, they're done, you know? So...

Butler

So you're doin' up-down's and, and I take it it's your, is it your responsibility to count how many gassers are done?

Stinson

Correct. Well, I count the gassers every time we run.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

you know, we, we count 'em and uh, and I take care of 'em to make sure that they're done, you know, at that point.

Butler

at, at that point they're startin' to run gassers, where are the other coaches and what would

Page 34 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

their responsibilities be? Stinson

Uh, coach Donnelly is uh, he, he's, he's...I'd say he's pro'bly around the 30 or the 40-yard line watchin', at that point.

Butler

At the center of the field?

Stinson

Yeah. He's kind of at the center of the field.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

...in, in that position. Coach Bobby is down with the freshmen, he's already removed the freshmen, so he's kinda down at the end with the uh, uh...it'd be...most of 'em are the offensive line, 'cause they kinda tend to graduate towards where their positions are at, so they're down there. Uh, I'm at that point, uh, Coach Hiser's left at that point...and then Coach Cook is actually stripin', over on this side of the field. He's striping the far side that we're runnin' to, so he's at that point.

Butler

So you've got you and Donnelly? Uh...

Stinson

Um-hmm. And Coach Bobby...

Butler

and Coach Bobby is uh...

Stinson

...Uh-huh. Bobby Deacon.

Butler

Bobby Deacon's out there.

Stinson

Correct.

Butler

Uh, Lightle's with the freshmen...

Page 35 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Stinson

...Correct.

Butler

Hiser's gone...

Stinson

...Correct.

Butler

Cook?

Stinson

He's striping the field.

Butler

Striping the field.

Stinson

Yes, sir.

Butler

Uh...what are, what are Donnelly's and, and Bobby Deacon's responsibilities?

Stinson

Uh, basically their responsibilities are to, are to observe the kids, uh, make sure the kids are doin' what they're supposed to, 'cause at this, at this point, nobody's runnin' hard. You know? At this point we're watchin' and observin', we're watchin' to make sure no kids are uh, in distress, no kids are hurt...and no kid are sayin' hey, Coach, I need out...because, you know, we've taken kids out. You know. That, that's what our jobs are, to pay attention and to watch what things are goin' on, so...

Butler

Who actually took uh, Calloway out?

Stinson

I did.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

I took Calloway in.

Butler

Uh...

Page 36 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Stinson

...and I sent Roberson in, and I sent the, the injured guy...I'm the one that actually, if a, if we're runnin' and a kid's, a kid's doin' what he's supposed to be, he's puttin' the effort in to it, I'm always the one that sends them in, you know, they'll take 'em out, send 'em in, you know. So at that point...

Butler

At any point when they're runnin' gassers...

Stinson

...Correct.

Butler

...did you notice any of the other kids that, other than you mentioned become ill?

Stinson

uh, De...DeAndré Cole...uh, he mentioned he was not feelin' well...uh, uh...uh, Vincent mentioned he wasn't feelin' well...but as far as noticin' anybody that was sick or anybody sayin' hey...

Butler

...Did either one of those kids get sick?

Stinson

Uh, well, he said I can't breathe 'cause of my asthma. I don't, I don't recall him, and when you say "sick" define it.

Butler

Vomit.

Stinson

I don't really, I mean I really don't.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

I, I just know he said coach, I'm havin' trouble breathin' and my first question was, where is your inhaler? You know, that's what I ask, 'cause he's supposed to bring his inhaler to his

Page 37 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

position coach, which would have been Coach, but he didn't have it that day. Butler

...Now when they're askin' these questions and you're askin', you're in the center of the field?

Stinson

Yeah. I'm probably...well, yeah. From me to, you know, the field's 53 yards so I'm probably, you know, a little closer to their sideline than the exact dead center, but, you know, I'm, I'm close enough to conversate with...

Butler

Okay. So you're, you're all havin' a conversation.

Stinson

Oh, yeah.

Butler

And people can overhear ya.

Stinson

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Butler

And then you never see any of them vomit?

Stinson

Not that I can recall. You know, I mean we have guys that throw up from water, you know, they'll drink too much water and they'll throw up...

Butler

...Right...

Stinson

...but if we see a guy throw up, more than likely we say either stop or we send 'em out, you know, we don't just, just keep watchin' a kid throw up and throw up and throw up. So...

Butler

Now was Cole and Vincent, were they in the heavy group?

Page 38 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Stinson

Yeah. they were in the big guy group.

Butler

Were they n ear Max?

Stinson

Well, they're here, and sim...close, you know, they're, they're all in the same, you know...when we run groups, it, it sounds kinda weird, but the big guys kinda take from the 50 to the 10 on this end, and then the little guys kinda fill in, you know, from there. So I mean we're from pro'bly the 20 all the way to the other side and, and most of 'em, they tend to be the group; yeah, they're close, I mean they're probably right here and Max is pro'bly there, you know, at that point.

Butler

Who would be monitoring them?

Stinson

Uh, it would be coach Donnelly and myself and then uh, coach Bobby would be, you know, he...we walk back, you know, Coach Bobby and Coach Donnelly and those guys walk back and forth at that point, you know, they're walkin' back and forth through the guys and they're in the middle of the field and then they're, you know, they're back and forth checkin', you know, at that point...

Butler

Okay. Uh, did you ever see Max fall at all?

Stinson

Did not. Did not.

Butler

Okay. Uh, Christian Vincent...

Stinson

...Correct...

Butler

...did he ever collapse at some point or fall or, or...

Page 39 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Stinson

...He told me he said he was uh, yeah, was he was bent down, now we, now our kids will bend over, we tell 'em to stand up.

Butler

Right.

Stinson

We tell our kids to stand up because you can breathe better. You can't breathe bent over, you know.

Butler

Right.

Stinson

You can't get any oxygen. And that's, we tell our kids to stand up and don't bend over. I mean that's, if we're runnin', any day you come out there and a kid's bent over, we'll tell the kid to stand up. You know, at that point he says Coach, I'm havin' trouble, 'cause I look at him, he did...'cause I blow the whistle...I go down and say hut, 'cause we don't blow the whistle 'cause the soccer game's goin' on. We don't wanna...we don't wanna impede their game. So down, I said hut, I said, Christian, you need to go, and he says Coach, I can't breathe. I'm havin' trouble breathin'. That's on about #9. So I just say stand there, you know. I never go over and grab him and physically drag him across the field. You know, he's just standin' right there at that point, you know, so Deandré Cole said the same thing. He said coach, my asthma. I said, stand right there. You know? At first the question was, where's your inhaler? He said, I don't have it. I said, well, just stand right there, you know, so at that point...

Butler

Okay. Uhm, prior to the team practicing...

Page 40 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Stinson

...Okay...

Butler

...you're blowin' a whistle, everybody's at the water comin' back from team break.

Stinson

Correct. Everybody's comin' back after the individual period and seven on seven's over with, pro'bly somewhere around 5:20, they're all at the water...the whole, we send the whole group. We send the whole group.

Butler

How do we know the whole group's over there?

Stinson

Uh, because nobody's on the field, at that point. Uh, 'cause we may have kids standin' there, sayin', I don't need any water.

Butler

Is there a possibility that some of the kids may have...I mean are, are you aware in checking off...okay...offensive line took a water break. Defensive line took a water break. Run...I mean you're dealing with the running backs...

Stinson

Right. and wide receivers. Yes, sir.

Butler

So obviously, I, and I, I don't wanna put words in your mouth.

Stinson

...Right...

Butler

But you're checkin' off, my guy's got a break.

Stinson

Correct.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

I'm checkin' as an individual coach at that

Page 41 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

point, individual that we're makin' sure that our guys have breaks...now the schedule breaks, when I send 'em after, after individual, I blow the whistle and send the whole group to water. And I make sure everybody's off the field, 'cause you may have one or two guys that just had water in that individual period...they're like coach, I'm fine. I'm like no, go to the water. Everybody takes the scheduled water breaks. Butler

Alright. This is my point.

Stinson

Okay.

Butler

you're havin' seven on seven...

Stinson

Correct.

Butler

You send your guys over to get a water break.

Stinson

right.

Butler

You're assuming, or do you know everybody took a water break at that point? Because you've got your group of football players that you're workin' with.

Stinson

...Right...

Butler

You know they're sent 'cause you sent 'em.

Stinson

Correct.

Butler

Are you accounting for every group goin'...okay. Freshmen are gettin' a water break, defensive linemen are get a water break?

Stinson

No, 'cause that's on the individual coach.

Page 42 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

The individual coach is taking care of those water breaks. And now the individual coaches are goin' by the schedule on the mandatory wa...the scheduled water breaks. And at that point, in their individual period, they send 'em at, at...for their unscheduled ones.

Butler

Right. Okay.

Stinson

So at that point no, I do not, I do not sit there and, and...and check off and, and go offensive line went now...these went now...these went now...I don't, I don't do that 'cause the individual coaches are responsible for the unscheduled water breaks. The scheduled water breaks, yes. When, when they all go, we send 'em. and we make sure everybody's off the field, you know.

Butler

So you blow your whistle, first team, offense, defense...

Stinson

...Well, I bring 'em on, I say first team offense...

Butler

And you're thinking the whole team is comin' back from a water break...

Stinson

They are. Yeah.

Butler

And that...

Stinson

...At that point I know they are because we've sent them all over there. You know, we've sent them all over there. It's, you know, there's a

Page 43 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

hundred kids, uh, and we've sent them over there to the water, 'cause I make sure at that point, off the field, you know, go take that, 'cause right before team is the, the time we go for our scheduled water breaks. so we make sure they're off the field. Butler

Okay. And then that gets me back. and Alex, if...if, if I'm makin' sense to you, please help me here.

Dathorne

Okay.

Butler

When you blow your whistle...

Stinson

...Sure...

Butler

...do you think the teams are comin' back...

Stinson

...From water breaks. yes.

Butler

Okay. Prior to that...

Stinson

...Okay...

Butler

...you send your, your group you're workin' with...

Stinson

...Right...

Butler

...over to the water break.

Stinson

Correct.

Butler

At that point, do you check off offensive linemen are going to get a water break?

Stinson

No.

Page 44 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Butler

So there's a possibility, when you blow your whistle and say first team offense, they could be coming from individual work instead of the water break.

Stinson

There, there's that possibility, I mean there, there is that possibility.

Dathorne

Well, just to clarify something though, uh...Mr. Stinson, when, when you have your individual with your wide receivers...

Stinson

...Correct...

Dathorne

...uhm, and you have your unscheduled water break...

Stinson

...Correct...

Dathorne

...that doesn't back to back the scheduled water break? does it?

Stinson

No. No, there's a time.

Dathorne

There's a time period in between...

Stinson

...Yes, sir...

Dathorne

...the, the, the unscheduled water break and then the scheduled water break. Uhm, so for example, I'm just making this time up. Let's say that the unscheduled water break occurs for wide receivers at 12:07.

Stinson

Right.

Dathorne

Okay? And then an unscheduled water break

Page 45 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

may occur for the line backers at 12:08. Stinson

Correct.

Dathorne

...and the, the offensive line may have had an unscheduled at 12:02.

Stinson

Correct.

Dathorne

And then the scheduled water break is at 12:10.

Stinson

Right.

Dathorne

But you cannot account for when and if the line backers or the offensive line or anybody, when they took their unscheduled.

Stinson

Corr...I cannot.

Dathorne

And, and...and, but you, in your situation, the unscheduled is not a back to back water break. Correct?

Stinson

No.

Dathorne

Okay.

Stinson

No. We don't go schedule a water break on scheduled water breaks.

Dathorne

...Does that make sense?

Butler

It does, but now let's stay with this.

Stinson

Okay.

Butler

Before you blew your whistle and called the first team up...

Page 46 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Stinson

...Right...

Butler

...was that a scheduled water break or was that a responsibility of the positional coaches to say go get a water break?

Stinson

At that, at that point, the general, when we do it, I blow my whistle and say it's time for team, water 'em down, and then they come back.

Butler

And, once again, is that where you're goin' offensive line went...defensive line went...line backers went...you're just assuming...

Stinson

...I assume the whole team goes at that point.

Butler

Right.

Stinson

Yeah.

Butler

Okay.

Dathorne

that is a scheduled water break...

Stinson

...Correct...

Dathorne

...where the entire team is sent to water...

Stinson

...Correct...

Dathorne

...and then you bring 'em back.

Stinson

Correct.

Dathorne

Okay.

Stinson

And they come back..

Page 47 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Dathorne

And whether they actually drink water you don't know.

Stinson

We don't know.

Dathorne

Okay.

Stinson

I, I do not know that. I do not...I know they're off the field. I know that much.

Butler

Alright.

Stinson

Uh, but I'm not, I mean, you know, I've, we've had some guys stand at that point, on scheduled water breaks, sayin', I just, I just came back from wide receivers and we just had one three minutes ago, which could be the case. And our response is no, go get water.

Butler

But on August 20th, when you blow the whistle, first team comes up, you didn't have anybody say Coach, I didn't have a water break...

Stinson

...No, sir...

Butler

...or did you?

Stinson

No, sir, I didn't have anybody say Coach, I need, didn't have a water break, Coach, I need water...Coach, I'm not feelin' well, didn't have any of that. They just came up at that point.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

Yeah.

Page 48 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Butler

And then during the running of the gassers..

Stinson

...Correct...

Butler

...who would have been monitoring the, the heavy group?

Stinson

Uh, that would have been Coach Donnelly and uh, and myself.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

You know. We would have been there...

Butler

...Okay.

Stinson

...but monitoring the, the two groups together simultaneously. We would have monitored the, the big group, or the heavy group first and then we would have monitored the second group and then we'd o' monitored, and then Coach Bobby's with the freshmen...but he's, you know, he's in the same general area, you know...

(End Of Side A. Beginning Of side B.)

...

Butler

But around Cole and Christian...

Stinson

...Correct...

Butler

...and Max. They're kinda in the same little group.

Stinson

They are, they're pro'bly within 20, they're pro'bly within 20 yards of each other...you know, they're all right there and they're pro'bly

Page 49 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

within 20 yards of me, you know, there, and then within sight of each other. You know, on a football field, if I'm standin', you know, on the hashes, they're standin' in pro'bly the 50yard line, I guess, from that day. I mean I'm not exactly sure, but pro'bly on the 50. And then they're in between the 50 and the freshmen. So they're pro'bly in between the 50 and the 20, at that point, when they're runnin'. You know. And we're walkin' back and forth. Butler

Okay. Uh, this is Detective Terry Jones.

Stinson

Sure. How you do in'? Jason Stinson. Nice to meet you.

Jones

...Hello, Sir, how you doin'?

Butler

Uh...so you, would you have noticed if Cole would have gotten sick or if Christian would have gotten sick?

Stinson

Uh...

Butler

...or if Max would have gotten sick? And what I mean as sick is vomiting. If, if they were vomiting...

Stinson

...I would have, I would have noticed. Yeah. I...you know, that day, you know...I don't recall. Uh, I don't recall Cole gettin' sick before he said Coach, my asthma. I, I just don't recall that, you know. and I know when Christian said, when he looked at me and he wasn't runnin', he said Coach, I'm not, my, my asthma's actin' up. And I never did see him throw up, and Max I never did. Max never said anything.

Page 50 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Butler

Okay. On Christian.

Stinson

Right.

Butler

When he makes a comment to ya, did you have a conversation with him or, or any comments made, or did he continue running at that point?

Stinson

No, he didn't. He stopped. He was done runnin'. I told him, you know, he said I can't run. I said, well, if you can't run stand right there. I said no.

Butler

And, at what gasser would that have been?

Stinson

I'd say it was pro'bly around nine or ten at that point. I think it was nine, you know, I think it was at that point when we, well, it had to be, it had to be nine 'cause he didn't have a helmet on and I could see his face. I could see his face. So it was either nine or ten, and pro'bly ten, 'cause he, I think I recalled him not having any shoulder pads on, too, 'cause we took the shoulder pads off at ten, you know, so...I, I don't, you know. At that point, I never saw him get, never saw Christian get sick, he just said coach, my asthma, and I said well, if you can't run just stand right there. And Cole said the same thing, 'cause Cole said coach, my asthma...now he was bent over now, uh, he may have thrown up, I don't know. He didn't say I throw up, he said coach, my asthma, is what he said. And I said where's your inhaler? And he said I don't have it with me. I said is your position, and he said I don't have it. I said stand right there at that point.

Page 51 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Butler

Okay. And then you break from the gassers...

Stinson

...Right...

Butler

...the conditioning's over...you go back to the huddle?

Stinson

Well, no. After, after the conditioning's over with we're here. I said 'em meet me under the tree for a team...meet me under the shade tree. And as I walk...I break here, uh, those guys are finished with their uh, with their up-down's uh, I stand up and I say meet me under the shade tree, and I start to walk off underneath the shade tree. and I walk past those guys, goin' to the shade tree. And at that point...

Butler

You walk past...

Stinson

...I walk past uh, well, I say past, I walk past Max, 'cause that's the last time that I saw him.

Butler

And, and what was he doing at that point?

Stinson

He was just walkin' towards the shade tree. He was goin' to where he was supposed to be goin' to.

Butler

Was he being helped by anyone or...

Stinson

Not that I saw. When I, when I walked past him, he was, he was walkin' on his own, he was breathin', he was upright, he, he looked like a football player that had conditioned. I mean that's what he looked like to me. So I went past him and after that point, you know, 6:05 to 6:10, somewhere in that range, I don't, I didn't physically see him again until I went

Page 52 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

over to the water where administering aid to him.

they

were

Butler

So you don't know how he got from the field to...

Stinson

...All I know is what I've been, how I was told that he got there. That's all I know. I don't physically...I didn't physically see anything...nobody came up and said Coach, Max's down, Antonio's having a tough time breathin'...nobody said that. I went to the tree, and after I'd cleared the field, I went over to the...stayed at the gate like I'm gettin' ready to leave like we always do, and I see them over there so I walk over at that point uh, to that. So...and that's where we're at. so I never physically see him go down, never uh, uh...scoop him up, pick him up or anything, nobody ever comes and says Coach, Max is down, uh, Antonio's not, uh, is hyperventilating...I don't know any of that's goin' on until after the team meeting and I go to the uh, I go over to the uh, uh...part...

Butler

...You've already broke the rest of the players.

Stinson

Oh, we've already broke the rest of the players to clear the field and get water. Uh, and that's where we're at, at that point.

Butler

So did the team go over and get water?

Stinson

Uh, some did, some started to clear the field.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

Some, some go that way...

Page 53 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Butler

...And the gaiter's over at the water hole...

Stinson

...The gaiter's over at the water at that point...well, at that point, I'm assume...'cause I'm watchin' 'em clear the field to make sure they get everything up, and to make sure things are done and I'm still standin' at the end of the field, and then as I walk over to the gate to leave, uh, I notice the gaiter's over there and that's when I walk over at that point. Uh, when we break, when we break after team meeting, guys can go get water, guys can go do what they want...some guys clear the field, uh, and then go get water, it's just kind of uh, and what we do is after we clear the field, we meet at the gate, and I've got a guy that is po...responsible for uh, making sure the shed's straight, and I have a gate-keeper. He makes sure the guys are stayed there until the field, the field's cleared out and, and taken care of, but at that point guys are goin' back and forth to the water, doin' what they wanna do, you know. And a lot of times the freshmen clear the field first, so...it just, that day we just cleared the field as a group and at that point I, once, as I said, once I walk past him, walk past Max...once I walk past him, I don't re...I don't recall seeing him again or seeing him go down or seeing anything until I go over and he's on the gaiter. That's when I see him next at that point. Nobody during team meeting said hey Coach, stop, Max is down, Calloway is down...Coach we, somebody's taken care of that at that point, you know, he's gone down, uh, and all I know is what they told to.

Butler

Right. But I mean you actually pull Calloway

Page 54 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

out because you see him start showing signs of stress?... Stinson

Well, he's...I see him...he runs about seven or eight and he's, he's sprintin', I mean he's the one actually runnin' what he's supposed to be runnin'. I pulled him out because he's done what he's supposed to do. And then at that point I think is when he starts to have a little bit of trouble, and Steve Deacon is with, takes him and goes up, you know, and I think there that, but I never see him in distress, he's just runnin', you know, at that point.

Butler

Did you see anybody in distress?

Stinson

not...Coach, I'm sick, Coach I'm uh, fallin' down on that knee, no. You know, now there's guys out there that are runnin' and there's guys that are sweatin', and there's guys out there that are breathin' hard, but as far as distress, Coach, I can't go, coach I'm sick, Coach...I can't do this...Coach, I'm on a knee...you know, no.

Jones

If I can ask uh, Detective Jones, just to identify myself, I'm present uh, during this interview...uh, coach uhm, your observation of that particular portion of the training, where would you have been located?

Stinson

Uh, in the center of the field, in the...probably in the center of the field, the 40 or 50-yard line.

Jones

Okay. And where would the old, other coaches uh...how many coaches do you have?

Stinson

Uh, we have uh, five and then we have a gentleman that helps us out. We have Coach

Page 55 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Steve, uh, Coach Bobby, uh, uh...myself, uh, Coach Cook, Coach Donnelly, Coach Hiser, and then Coach Lightle, and then we have uh, coach Webb, that helps us with balls, and things of that nature...equipment and things of that nature...uh, at that point, uh, I'm, I, I don't wanna say I'm in this dead center of the field, but, you know, I'm in the middle of the field. Coach Donnelly and Coach Deacon, Coach Cook is stripin', uh, and Coach Steve was coming back from the training room at that point. Coach Hiser has left at this point. Coach Hiser left about 5:25. Jones

Okay. So you have at least four...four or five coaches there presently...

Stinson

...Um-hmm. Yes, sir...

Jones

And you're in the middle of the field...

Stinson

...Sure...

Jones

...and who's, who's in charge of the gassers, at this time?

Stinson

I am. I am.

Jones

And how are the, how are the gassers ran? And I'm sorry, you've pro'bly asked this..

Butler

Yeah, we've already been through that.

Jones

Okay. Uh, are whistles blown, or is it timed or what?

Stinson

...Well, down, instead of go, 'cause the soccer game's goin' on...and we don't wanna interrupt

Page 56 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

their game... Jones

...Okay...

Stinson

...uh, usually, normally, they're timed.

Jones

Okay.

Stinson

The little guys run anywhere from, you know, 42 to...

Jones

...Okay...

Stinson

...52... Big guys run 52 and above...that day they're not timed...

Jones

Um-hmm...

Stinson

...it's just the downs that go, the little group runs, uh, most, some, like I said, some are runnin'...some are joggin'...some are walkin'.

Jones

Okay. Now I understand uh, as you explained to Sgt. Butler here, that uh, you personally did not see uh, the victim...

Stinson

...Um-hmm...

Jones

...Matt Gilpin go...Max Gilpin go down. Correct?

Stinson

No, sir.

Jones

Uh, who would have been the closest coach to Max?

Stinson

Uh, the closest coach to Max would have been, when we were runnin', it would have been

Page 57 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

myself and Coach Donnelly. Uh, and then Coach Bobby would have been down there, as far as that goes. Uh, as far as once we, once we walk off, I can't tell you where everybody's at. Butler

Okay.

Stinson

Now what I've been told is that Coach Donnelly went, he saw Max go to knee and he went to him at that point. Now...

Butler

...But you never saw Max go to a knee?

Stinson

I never saw, I never saw Max go down. No.

Jones

Okay.

Butler

And Cole and Christian Vincent are runnin' around Max, with Max...in that same group...

Stinson

...Yeah, they're, yeah, Max is probably over there uh, 10, 12 feet.

Butler

But they're runnin' in the same group.

Stinson

Yeah, they're in the same group. Yeah, they're (inaudible).

Butler

And then you notice Cole kinda struggling...

Stinson

...Correct.

Butler

...or he makes a comment to ya...

Stinson

He makes a comment, says Coach, my...he's bent over, and he says Coach, my asthma. And I asked him, I said, do you have your inhaler,

Page 58 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

and he said no. And I said does your position coach have you inhaler, and he said no. And I said, well, just stand right there. Butler

And that would have been up around gasser #...

Stinson

Pro'bly been around gasser number eight or nine, somewhere, somewhere in there. And then Vincent was the same way. They, they both started to show the, that same, you know, Coach, my asthma, at that same time...

Butler

And then you noticed Christian Vincent.

Stinson

Correct.

Butler

And that would have been after Cole?

Stinson

Yeah, he was right after Cole, you know. It's pro'bly he's at nine, somewhere in there...nine or ten, at that point.

Butler

And then he didn't run anymore.

Stinson

No. He didn't' run anymore, as far as I know. No, 'cause I told him to stand there, you know. And then at that point is when the group of seven or eight of the guys are down there and I go down and take care of those guys, which I'm still within, you know, I'm still within 20 or 30 yards of...

Butler

...And the seven or eight guys are the ones that are doin' up-down's?

Stinson

Yeah. The ones that we, that aren't doin' anything, I, they start to do up-down's. And then the other guys are...

Page 59 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Butler

...And just for your clarification, uh, Detective Jones, that would be the light group that are doin' up-down's.

Jones

Okay.

Stinson

Not the light group, but about eight of the light group.

Butler

right.

Stinson

you know, the rest of 'em are there, so uh, they're doin' that and I'm kinda...they're on this side, I'm here...they're runnin', Coach Donnelly and Coach Bobby are right there.

Butler

Check and see what time it is so we don't run out of tape.

Stinson

Sure.

Butler

Uh, Mr. Dathorne, if you don't mind, what I'll go ahead and do is conclude this tape. You can talk with uh, Coach Stinson...

Dathorne

...Okay.

Butler

...and if I can have a minute with uh...Detective Jones...

Dathorne

...Yeah, sure...

Butler

...so we're not missin' anything. Uh, the time is 12:37 pm.

Page 60 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

(Tape Stops and Starts.)

...

Butler

Uh, we're back on tape and the time is 12:41 pm.

Jones

Uhm, Coach Stinson, uhm, today's practice what, is there, is there an agenda...

Stinson

...Yes, sir...

Jones

...you follow?

Stinson

Um-hmm.

Jones

And uh, was this agenda followed according to, to the timeframe that you had allotted for the training?

Stinson

Uh, to a certain extent it was followed, but the day got uh, we talked earlier...the day started off, off uh, off task, I guess you'd say. Uh, we got out of film a little bit early that day and once we got out of film and I walked from the uh, broke Film 340, walked over to the field, coach Webb had asked us earlier if we'd help him move blocks. that's why we broke film a little early, so our time...our schedule...per se at 2:53, no, because at that point, we started late uh, and we kind of modified it...not modified, but we kinda went along as we did, uh, so we kinda got knocked off schedule by the blockcarrying, you know. So instead of startin' at, you know, what would say uh, uh...4 o'clock, we pro'bly started 4:15, 4:20, with the varsity. The freshmen started, pro'bly started around 4:35, 4:40.

Jones

But nothin' to do as far as with the soccer game

Page 61 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

or anything? That didn't affect your practice, whatsoever. Stinson

No, sir. they're on a different field.

Jones

Okay. But your agenda was kinda off-set because of some other issues (inaudible)?

Stinson

...Right. 'Cause before we had gone out, Coach Webb had said, mentioned hey, you know, I've got some blocks, can you help me out with? I said well sure, and knowin' that, I know, you know, to stay close to schedule to get our kids on the activity bus, we're gonna have to be out there early, so I got out there early, took my readings and temperatures...

Jones

...Okay...

Stinson

...then supervised the blocks at that point.

Jones

Uh, now as it relates to the training, who is in charge...who makes the training agenda?

Stinson

As far as the, you mean the practice schedule?

Jones

For the day? Is it...

Stinson

I do.

Jones

Okay. So the training agenda is based on what you want that day.

Stinson

Correct.

Jones

Not what another coach would want.

Stinson

Well, what I do is, is uh, it's, I lay out the,

Page 62 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

the...the timeframe, and I lay out what uh, uh...what I expect to be done during those certain times, but when we go to individual period, I don't tell a coach, okay, you've gotta run this, this, this, and this. I tell a coach individual period, today we're gonna work on buck and trap, you need to make sure that they're concentratin' on those areas. But during an individual time, I don't dictate to coaches. The only thing that we go by is the periods of when we're there, the scheduled water breaks we go by, and, and it's kind of a, it's kind of a master plan. The one we went past in a few years had every minute for everything, but all the way down, uh, but I give our coaches the leeway during their individual time, and place, I just expect them to be at the group things, you know, team take-off's, stretch...uh, seven on seven, uh, uh...base period, you know...team period, those things like that. Jones

'Cause that's some, some instruction that you need for, to prepare for the game.

Stinson

Correct.

Jones

and as a team.

Stinson

Correct.

Jones

Not as opposed to...if the coach is running over an individual player's uh, reaction to a certain play...

Stinson

...Right...

Jones

...this is what you expect at a certain time, everyone comes together. Correct?

Page 63 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Stinson

Correct.

Jones

Uh, now I may have missed this, but the uh, how long did the team run gassers?

Stinson

Uh, we ran for a total, approximately probably 30 to 35 minutes. But it's not a continuous run, it's two groups. So the, the larger guys probably ran 15 to 17 minutes, uh, uh...pro'bly a minute, minute and a half, with, with a minute, minute and a half break in between each one of 'em, so you kinda run one group, one group rest...one group runs, one group rest, one group runs. So it's not like a continuous run from 30 minute or 35 minutes.

Jones

Okay. Now as it relates to the hy...hygrometer, who's in charge of the hygrometer?

Stinson

I am.

Jones

And at what point did you uh, ask for a reading or...

Stinson

Uh, I took one at 3:45 when I went out...

Jones

...Um-hmm...

Stinson

...after we left film, I went out and took the reading at 3:40...I always, soon as I go on the practice field, while they're gettin' ready to stretch, that's the first thing that I do, I take the reading and uh, as I went over to the field that day I took the reading, I placed the, placed the hygrometer in my, my notepad inside the, the shed there...uh, and then I walked over to the uh, empty lot at that point, waited on Coach

Page 64 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Webb...at that point, you know, I know uh, uh...(inaudible) and I'm waitin' for the varsity guys to come over and the freshmen guys to come over, is what I'm doing and waitin' in there, 'cause Coach asked us to help him out. Jones

Okay. Uh, now the hygrometer, is that, is that like a simple device?

Stinson

I...

Jones

...What does, what does a hygrometer do?

Stinson

Basically the hygrometer, from, from what I can gather, and the ones that we've always used is, you turn it on, and once you turn it on, it takes a, it takes a heat and humidity reading and you write down the heat and humidity reading, then there's a chart on the back of the thing, you find the heat, you find the humidity and it gives you relative temperature at that point. So you just say that, I think if it's below 40 uh, humidity, then the temperature reading is the actual temperature outside that day.

Jones

So you don't have to do no calibration, it's just a matter of on and off switch?

Stinson

On and off and we've had one in the past...uh, this is our second one in four years. We've had one in the past, they uh, better lack of a term it zeroes out. when it zeroes out, it doesn't work anymore, and then when our first one zeroed out we got a new one and we've had that one for probably, I think three years, somethin' like that. And we keep that in uh, we keep that uh, with me. I walk it back and forth. I used to leave it in the shed with the soccer ones, but

Page 65 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

somebody kicked it in a hole earlier so, and our youth league uses our shed, our soccer uses our shed, so I carry mine back and forth with me and put it in the office uh, with us at that point. Jones

So yours is kept in your office.

Stinson

Um-hmm.

Jones

the one that was used that particular day. Correct?

Stinson

The one that was kept in there, yes, sir.

Jones

Okay. Uh, now as far as the uh, anyone, let's say the soccer match is goin' on, uh, did anyone ask you to give a reading pertaining to their game? You only did it for your specific team?

Stinson

No. Hm-umm. I only, I only take care of, I only take care of football. Uh, that's why the soc...there's one for soccer...boys' soccer and girls' soccer...uh, they're there at that point. They have their own hygrometer, they take their own readings, keep their own charts.

Jones

And, and you're not for sure who, who did the soccer uh...

Stinson

I have no idea.

Jones

Now, did the AD uh, athletic director have a hygrometer that day, too?

Stinson

I have no idea.

Jones

You don't? Okay.

Page 66 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Stinson

Uh, we carry our own for football because generally when we practice, is different than everybody else.

Jones

Okay.

Stinson

Uh, so we usually go in the summertime. We go in the mornings, nobody else is there. And we've always carried all ours ourself (sic) uh, and we've always attached our clipboard, it's always been there, so at that point. So we, soccer, they have one for soccer and they use those and then we have ours that we've used. And we've used it, like I said, I think this is the third, third or fourth year.

Jones

Okay. Uh, as far as uh, the physicals are concerned of each player, uh, who's in charge of making sure every player has a physical?

Stinson

Uh, I'm in charge of that. They come through and I look at 'em, uh, Steve Deacon helped me with the physicals and organizing them...

Jones

...Okay...

Stinson

...and putting them together, uh, at that point uh, but uh, we look at 'em and the things we look at, we look at uh, uh...if there's anything noted by the doctor, if we know that there's anything uh, noted uh, uh...cleared or not cleared. If it says not cleared, then we make sure they get cleared before they practice and then uh, the kids give us their physicals and we review 'em, they're good to go, we put 'em in a folder and we keep our file folders in our, in our football...

Page 67 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Jones

So that documentation is on record of...

Stinson

...Correct...

Jones

...each and every player on your roster. Okay.

Stinson

Uh, yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Jones

Uh, have...

Stinson

...Now...

Jones

...Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Stinson

Oh, I'm sorry. Now we do, there is a, there is a parent uh, there is a parent release form and a permission form uh, that goes along with that, the treat forms, uh, we keep those on files and update 'em from time to time and go through it. And, and...and in all honesty, when, when this occurred, uh, we've gone back and looked at 'em and made sure everybody's on file and everybody's up-to-date. We've had a couple guys that we couldn't read dates, we couldn't do this, and we've had 'em get 'em re-taken (sic) care of...

Jones

...Right...

Stinson

...but uh, to my knowledge uh, the guys out there all have physicals. Now. I can say this. Uh, when this, when this occurred, uh, probably two or three days later we went through the physicals and made sure. If somethin' was out of place we took the gen...young gentleman's helmet and put it up and made sure everything was cleared before

Page 68 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

we sent them back out for football. Jones

Okay. Uh, just uh, one more question here. Uh...

Stinson

...But a, but Max and Antonio uh, both had all the paperwork, had all that filled out, and that was provided to the AD, maybe Friday uh, after the Wednesday when they, when they asked for it.

Jones

Uh, just one more question. Uh, when you started uh, summer training, and uh, uh...summer camp, what was your starting number at that point?

Stinson

Uh, football players?

Jones

Yes, sir.

Stinson

I would say we were pro'bly anywhere from 90 to 105 uh, and uh, that's everybody. Uh, where it starts and where it ends. Uhm...90 to 105 uh, we count everybody there whether they're practicing or not. We'll count them in the number count that day. Uh, so we have some kids that may be there that they're not ready to go or transfers or whatever the case may be, but we usually do that.

Jones

And uh, what's your current roster right now?

Stinson

Uh, I'd say the current roster uh, and glad, the day after, the day we went back to practice, uh, we had a hundred and...103 plus one. For Max. So that hundred, the day, I think it was the Thursday after uh, Max collapsed, I think it was 103 plus one. Somethin' like that. I can't

Page 69 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

remember. Jones

It's remained, (inaudible)...

Stinson

...oh, yeah, it's constant. We have kids come and go, I mean we have some kids that show up for a day or two days or three days and they say this is not for me. We have some kids that go, and we have some kids that go and come back, you know, so...but our, our numbers will remain consistent. We've been anywhere between, you know, 85 and 100 uh, since, since it started.

Jones

Okay. I don't have anything else.

Butler

One follow-up question. Were, were you aware of Max taking any enhancement drugs?

Stinson

Uh...

Butler

Personally?

Stinson

Personally, no.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

Not at that point.

Butler

And I wanna...I'm not putting words in your mouth, you tell me if, if what I say is incorrect. You learned from an assistant coach that his son confided in to him that Max may have been taking Creatine.

Stinson

Yes, sir.

Butler

You personally have never seen that or have no

Page 70 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

knowledge of that. Stinson

No, sir. I have no knowledge of any of our guys...

Butler

that information that you received...what did you do with that information? Who did you notify?

Dathorne

When did you receive that information?

Stinson

I, I can't recall. I mean I really can't. I, it was...

Dathorne

Post, post Max's (inaudible)?

Stinson

Post Max. Yeah. Post Max.

Butler

It would have been the Wednesday following, after a JV game? Maybe that night?

Stinson

It may have been. I mean I, I can't recall that exactly. I just know I've been told at that point, that that was a possibility in the things, you know.

Butler

And who did you share that with?

Stinson

I think I just...Steve and I talked about it. Just Coach Deacon and I talked about it.

Dathorne

And you told me.

Stinson

Yeah. We, we talked about it. Uh...

Dathorne

...You spoke to, you spoke to me about it and...

Stinson

I...

Page 71 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Dathorne

...and, and not regarding that particular issue...

Butler

...But did you, did you notify anyone at the school or any of your supervisors?

Stinson

No. I be...I believe if I'm, if I'm correct, I believe uh, I talked to Steve and...

Dathorne

Steve told you?

Stinson

Steve, Steve and I would, Steve and I had discussed it.... Uh, I can't no, I didn't, I don't remember goin' to anybody and sayin' hey, somebody's on this or that.

Butler

No, no, no. I, I guess I'll get real specific. Did you tell Mr. Johnson, the principal?

Stinson

I can't remember if I told him or he had already told me beforehand. I, I can't re...I can't recall that situ...I really can't. I can't remember. It was, it was discussed...he and I discussed it...but I can't remember uh, I, I must have already been told because either he told me and he, he called me in and we were discussin' somethin' and I, I can't really. I really can't. I know we have, Dave and I...Mr. Johnson and I have discussed it. But I can't, but I can't tell you the fact of did we discuss and then I learned, I learned from Steve first is where, is where I learned it from first. Now at that point I can't recall, you know, uh...Dave and I, I know Dave and I have talked about it. I know we talked about it and I can't...and after Steve and I talked about it. So...

Butler

Have you went back and talked to Zach at all

Page 72 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

about it? Stinson

I asked uh, after the fact, uh, I asked Zach if he was okay, 'cause I, I had heard talked to Steve and he had said he had been called in to the principal's office, and he said somethin' and said, you know, are you okay? And you, you okay, 'cause, he and Max were good friends.

Butler

Were you aware he was gonna get called back in the principal's office?

Stinson

No. No...

Butler

You weren't aware of it until Steve had told you afterwards...

Stinson

...No. After. After the fact. Yeah. I learned of it after the fact because uh, Steve's wife had got a little upset. that's where I learned about it from, so...

Butler

Uh, do you have anything to add? Did we not ask a question that you wanted to ask or...do you all wanna take a...we can come, come back on if you think we need to...

Dathorne

...We can conclude it...

Butler

...'cause I think we're runnin' out of tape and...

Dathorne

...Okay...

Butler

...and if you have anything else we'll put another one in.

Dathorne

...Okay.

Page 73 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Butler

Uh, the time is 12:54 pm.

(End Of Tape 1. Beginning Of Tape 2.)

...

Butler

This is tape 2 of uh, an interview with uh, coach Stinson. Uh, the time is 12:57 pm. And September 14th, 2008. Present is Detective Terry Jones, Coach Jason Stinson, and attorney Alex Dathorne. Uh, go ahead, Mr. Stinson.

Stinson

Uh, the, the additional information that, that I wanted to discuss was the first thing of everything. I lost one of my boys. Okay. I lost one of my boys. And my questions or concerns have to do with why...why did it happen? Did these things lead up to that, you know... And things of that nature. But, you know, we had had the, the questions of Creatine, the question had come up of, you know, was Max on supplements? Was Max on that? I learned from...

Dathorne

...Is this all after the fact?

Stinson

This is all after the fact. Uh, I had learned from uh, Steve uh, that he had taken Creatine during the summer, didn't know if he was still on it at that point...or had done those things.

Butler

And, and let's clear that up.

Stinson

Sure.

Butler

this is after the fact and this may have been the Wednesday after a JV game.

Page 74 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Stinson

Correct.

Butler

That Zach...

Stinson

...Right. Correct...

Butler

...confided in to his dad...

Stinson

Correct.

Butler

...his dad, Steve Deacon, assistant coach, then confided in to you what Zach had told him.

Stinson

Right. Right, that he had been, yes, sir.

Butler

Okay.

Stinson

Uh, you know, and then we had just had some concerns about the Adderall and then there was also another concern of, that Max was purportedly seen at Greenwood, either the day before or the day of his uh, August 20th...either August the 19th or August the 20th...that he was seen uh, there, not feeling well, and had laid down. And that's the kind of thing that goes through my mind because I can't account for him from 2:30 to when we started practice. I know he was not...I don't remember seein' him at 2:30, but I know he was at practice. You know, that was just my concern, was he ill, was he sick, did he lay down, you know, and you know, and there was some conversations on the weight gain. Uh, 37 pounds in...

Butler

And whose conversations were these?

Stinson

Uh, that was between Craig and myself uh,

Page 75 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Coach Webb, uh, Mr. Johnson, and myself, you know. We had noticed on the physical form uh... Dathorne

After the fact?

Stinson

After the fact. It was brought to my attention, you know, did I know that he had gained 37 pounds, uh, and my response was I did not, you know, I just saw Max.

Butler

And, and who was asking you this at that point?

Stinson

Uh, just uh, Coach John, uh, Mr. Johnson and Coach Webb...

Butler

...Okay...

Stinson

...we, they were, we, and they were talkin', uh, and it just was, you know, they asked my opinion was that unusual for a young man to gain 37 pounds in 11 months. And I said, you know, my response is I, I don't know, you know? I, I hadn't, you know, I know Max had gotten bigger, had got stronger, had started to look different, but I didn't know 37 pounds worth of, you know, that. So, you know, that was the conversation on that, you know, could he have been on supplements, things of that nature, you know, and the answer is I don't' know. You know...Max...

Butler

But to your personal knowledge...

Stinson

...Right...

Butler

...as a head coach of Max Gilpin, you did not

Page 76 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

see or hear that he was taking Creatine, steroids, or any other enhancement drug prior to the August 20th. Stinson

Correct. Correct.

Butler

Uhm, as a head coach of PRP, do you encourage your players?

Stinson

No, sir. No, sir. We encourage our kids to not uh, not to take any supplements, not to take any caffeine, uh, we, we reiterate the, the caffeine and the Creatine and the steroids and the things of that nature, that's not something we encourage. That's what we discuss. We tell our kids that it's a no-no, not to do it and, and not to be involved in those kind of things...even the energy drinks, you know, the energy drinks and the, and the, and the stuff you buy in the little pack, you, none of that...anything with caffeine or Creatine or any stimulant we, we encourage 'em to stay away from. You know, water and Gator-Ade, you know, fruits and vegetables, and things of that nature. So, but that, that was just some concerns. And another concern I had was the uh, the bacterial infection, 'cause I was at the hospital, uh, from his collapse to the, you know, to the time uh, he passed away, you know, and at one point there was a bacterial infection in his blood, and that was a concern of mine, you know, was it there prior? You know was it there after the fact, you know. So and my question was...'cause it goes back to the fact. I lost one of my boys. And I wanna know why. You know. I wanna know why...why, you know, did these things, all these things together cause the issue and, you

Page 77 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

know, just tryin' to find some answers about those types of things, and those are just concerns that I had. You know, and hopefully they're being investigated. So... Butler

Prior to learning from Mr. Deacon about the Creatine, there were some talks between Mr. Johnson uh, Coach Webb, and yourself...

Stinson

...Correct...

Butler

...about the weight gain.

Stinson

Correct. And the, and the Adderall, too, because lookin' at the physical form, uh, there were some questions on the Adderall and the weight gain and things of that nature. Uh, prior...

Butler

...Did you ever suspect any steroid use or Creatine use, or was that brought to your attention...

Stinson

I, I never did. I mean, you know, after the fact, lookin' back on it, you know...working with these guys three to five days a week, you know, it's kind of a natural progression, you know? You see a kid, you know, you assume he's maturing and, you know, and then you go look at the physical...wow, 37 pounds in one year. You kinda...you know, you kinda bounce back and forth with that after the fact, you know, but...

Butler

...But, but...

Stinson

...but at that point, no, I had no, I had no reason to suspect that he was on steroids, I had no

Page 78 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

reason to suspect any of our boys, or things like that. It just, through conversations after the fact, that uh, those were some concerns that were raised, you know. Butler

But before the incident, when, when the kids returned for summer practice, you didn't say oh, Max, you've gained 37 pounds, or it, it wasn't...

Stinson

...No. No...

Butler

...brought to your attention till after the fact.

Stinson

Right. Because the physicals, the physicals, once the year's over with, we give them to the athletic director. So I don't have a base-line chart of where kids started last year and where he's at, I can just look at the physical and go...

Butler

...that's...or you just look at the kid.

Stinson

Yeah. I've seen him all summer, and go, wow...he's, he's gettin' bigger. So...

Butler

right. And, and it wasn't somethin' that stuck out in your head, at that point.

Stinson

No, I mean I know he had gotten bigger, I know he had matured, but sometimes that's just a, you know...you just look at him and go...and, and Max was a, he was a good kid, you know. That's, that's the point, you know. So, but at that point, no.

Butler

Okay. Detective Jones, do you have anything? Just clearin' up, while he's lookin' through his notes. Has anybody suggested you say

Page 79 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

anything different than what happened or has anybody tried to influence... Stinson

...No, sir...

Butler

...your statement today?

Stinson

No, sir.

Butler

Okay. Uh, is the statement that you gave truthful, to the best of your knowledge?

Stinson

Yes, sir, to the best of my knowledge.

Jones

Uh, the, you stated the bacterial infection...

Stinson

...Correct...

Jones

..what led you to believe that Max had a bacterial infection?

Stinson

Uh, it was one of his, it was one of his aunts...came out and said, you know, it's not going so well. that was around, I, I wanna say it was around 6...6 o'clock...6 o'clock uh, Saturday night, uh, 6 o'clock Saturday night. And then they said well, we're gonna try this...they found a bacterial infection in his blood...and they're gonna treat him with antibiotics, gonna try this separate treatment...and I'm not a doctor, so I don't know...and that's where, you know...is that is.

Jones

Okay. So you're, you're not alluding that that is the cause of his death. Right?

Stinson

I'm, I'm, no, I'm just, I'm just asking, you know...

Page 80 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Butler

...Okay.

Stinson

...I'm just curious, you know, because of...

Butler

...Generally. Okay.

Stinson

...you know, just a, was he sick when he got to practice? Was he, did he have an elevated temperature already? Did he, were these other things that play...that's my question, you know.

Jones

Uh, did y'all practice the day before?

Stinson

Yes.

Jones

And what did the day before practice consist of?

Stinson

Uh, I, I'd have to go back and refer to my notes. I would say it would probably be the same uh, I, I don't recall at this point.

Butler

The same, other than movin' rocks?

Stinson

Yeah, other than movin' rocks. Uh...

Dathorne

...But we can provide that information to you, if you want.

Stinson

Yeah, we can, we can do that. I, I wanna say we were only in, we were either only in helmets or...helmets and shoulder pads, but no bottoms on. I, I can't recall at this point. I'd have to look back...

Jones

...Did you all run, did you run conditioning drills that, that previous day, of the 20th?

Page 81 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

Stinson

I believe so, 'cause generally we run on Tuesday and Wednesday of that week. We give 'em off on Thursdays, we back off on Thursdays a little bit to get their legs back for the game. But generally on Tuesdays and Thursdays we always condition.

Jones

Okay. And any of the players exhibit any illness on the 19th of august?

Stinson

Hmm?

Jones

The uh, max fell ill on the 20th so I'm referrin' back to the 19th day of practice. Did anything unusual happen during that course of your conditioning or anything?

Stinson

Not that I can recall. I know a young man, a young man quit uh, but it wasn't then, it was during, it was during uh, individual period a young man quit, uh, Henderson was his last name. I can't remember if it was the 19th, and his mom came up and talked to me...I remember there was a soccer practice or something goin' on before that, but I, I can't recall if that was the day, you know, that he quit, and left.

Jones

Do you know why Henderson quit?

Stinson

Uh, why did he quit?

Jones

Um-hmm.

Stinson

I have no idea. His mom just said he'd been goin' through a lot, uh, divorce and things like that, he just couldn't take the, the part of it of

Page 82 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

uh, football and, and...and the reason he quit was he was in a drill and he just didn't perform and he said, you know, he just walked off. And left the stuff. I said, you know, if you're gonna walk off and leave just put your stuff out of the tree. That, that happened somewhere between the 20th and...but I, I can't, you know, I, I... Jones

...It happened before the 20th. Correct?

Stinson

Absolutely.

Jones

Maybe a couple days before? you're not for sure?

Stinson

I'm not for sure.

Jones

Uhm, and you don't know why he quit. But said there's some underlining issues of why he quit...

Stinson

...His mom, his mom came up and talked to me at the practice and said the day he quit, she came after practice and said, you know, he's been goin' through a lot, his dad and I got divorced, maybe stepdad had left too, or somethin'...and, you know, and I told her at that point, I said you know, he's a freshman, I understand. If he wants to come back, he's welcome to come back uh, as far as football goes, 'cause freshmen are a little different than the other guys. We give them more lee-way, we give them more 'cause they're freshmen, they're 14 years old, usually.

Jones

Okay. Uh, with that being said uh, and, and this is very unfortunate that max had died and, and players were upset, did you have players

You're not,

Page 83 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

quit that day of your practice? Walk off the team? Stinson

Uh, we told you during the up-down's...

Butler

...Yes. Um-hmm...

Stinson

...I had two, I had two young men uh, uh...walk off, uh, David Englert and Chris Bryant walk off, they never said, Coach, I quit. They left, we, we finished what we were doin', uh, I assumed they quit uh, and they came back to, they're on the team now. they came back...

Jones

...So they have since rejoined the team.

Stinson

Yeah. Yeah.

Jones

Okay.

Stinson

...They're, they're on the team and they've said uh, uh...I would assume from what they said they quit, you know, that day, 'cause uh, uh...they asked, you know, is it okay if we come back, and they were included in all the things, you know...

Jones

...Okay...

Stinson

...and kinda went from there.

Jones

Okay. Uh, well, I don't wanna repeat what's already been said, so...

Stinson

...Okay...

Jones

...I'll just open the floor to you. Of anything else we didn't ask you, anything that's

Page 84 of 84 Statement: Coach David Jason Stinson / Case #08197 September 14, 2008

important that we didn't cover? Anything you wanna add? Stinson

No, sir. I think we're okay at this point.

Butler

This concludes the, the taped statement. And the time is 1:08 pm.

END OF STATEMENT File #08197butler-ks