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Office of the Press Secretary Internal Transcript December 5, 2002 INTERVIEW OF THE VICE PRESIDENT BY CAL THOMAS OF FOX NEWS Vice President's Ceremonial Office Eisenhower Executive Office Building 11:32

A.M. EST

Q Mr. Vice President, thank you for joining me on the premier of our show. THE VICE PRESIDENT:

It's good to be here, Cal.

Q In a speech this week to National Guardsmen and women, you said, we will out-think the terrorists, out-plan the terrorists, out-fight the terrorists. Can you give me some specifics without compromising any security as to how we're doing that, especially domestically? THE VICE PRESIDENT: Sure. Well, I think if you look at the efforts we've made to date, I would point, in terms of success, to our ability to disrupt al Qaeda organizations -- the cell that we wrapped up in Buffalo, half a dozen individuals, and another one that they were connected with, another individual they were connected with who was in Yemen and apparently killed at the time that al-Harithi was killed in Yemen. We've wrapped-np a group in Portland, four individuals up there that we think were also planning activities. So we've been able to disrupt operations here in the United States. We've also been able to capture overseas key individuals, key operational figures. The people like Abu Zubeyda and others who have been significant players; Ramzi bin al-Shiebh, who was Mohammad Atta's room mate, the guy who led the attack on September llth, lived with him in Hamburg and was a key planner, we wrapped him up here not long ago in Karachi. So the activities of law enforcement, of our intelligence efforts, working jointly especially with other countries, in addition to what the public sees with respect to the military, I think, have been very successful. Does it mean there won't be any more attacks? No, it doesn't; we can't say that. But we have a very, very aggressive program

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underway to disrupt their organizations, to arrest and detain bad guys, to interfere with the flow of funds and to find them wherever they're located and put them out of business. Q We constantly hear warnings from Republicans and Democrats in the Senate Intelligence Committee that another attack is inevitable. If you had to characterize whether we're less vulnerable, as vulnerable, or more vulnerable to terrorist attacks since 9/11, how would you characterize it? THE VICE PRESIDENT: I think we're less vulnerable in the sense that we know a lot more now about the enemy and that we have — we've eliminated some of them, taken them off the street, if you will. I think we're a tougher target now than we were on 9/11. That is to say, the measures that we've taken here at home again aren't likely to be perfect - there is no perfect defense against something like this. The best defense is to go on offense and to eliminate the terrorists. But we have made ourselves here in the U.S. I think more secure. Everybody is on alert now. We've worked hard_to train people to do a better job of responding to these kinds of incidents and intercept them, or the enactment of the President's proposal of the Office of Homeland Security will take us a long way towards consolidating federal agencies \d getting cooperation and having accountability at the I federal level that we've never had before. We've had close to 100 agencies that had a piece of the action with respect to defending the homeland. And now, as a result of the enactment of the legislation, the President has got the authority to -- the biggest reorganization since the Defense Department was put together in 1947, and it_will take us a long way towards making us'a tougher target. So I think the problem for the terrorists trying to get at us today is tougher than it was on 9/11. On the other hand, we know a lot more about them, too. We know_that we've uncovered cells, al Qaeda cells in Germany, in England, in Spain, Italy, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, the Philippines. It's a worldwide organization. And they are out there doing everything they can to try to find additional ways to kill Americans and our friends and allies around the world. We've seen the recent attack in Kenya, the attack in Bali. So it's going to be a continuing problem. We need to think about it as a war, because that's what it is. It's almost a guerrilla war in a sense, and it will take us a long time to eliminate that threat, but we will eliminate it.

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Q Should we be worried as we fly about these surface-to-air missiles? We saw the attack -- which missed, thankfully -- on that Israeli charter in Africa. Is that a domestic concern right now to you? THE VICE PRESIDENT: It's less of a concern domestically than it is, I think, overseas, just because it would be tougher, I think, for somebody to mount that kind of attack here at home. But clearly it's demonstrated -it's been demonstrated that they can use those systems that were designed for military purposes and used extensively, for example, in Afghanistan against the Soviets by the Afghan Mujahideen back in the '80s, that they can use those systems against civilian airliners, as well. We need to work to do everything we can to secure our airports, to again be vigilant and be alert, so that no one is able to use that kind of shoulder-fired missile against an aircraft. But the most worrisome problem would be, as we saw in Mombasa, at foreign airports where controls aren't as good and security isn't as tight and where there are greater vulnerabilities. Q What do you make of remarks by Al Gore and Senator Daschle that conservative talk radio, conservative newspapers and the Fox News Channel are responsible for the Democrat loss in the last election and the inability of Democrats to get their message out? THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I have mixed feelings about it, I guess, Cal. Frankly, to have them worried about you and blaming the Fox News network or conservative commentators for their problems, in a sense, is sort of a blessing for us, be_cause that means they're not focused on the real problem, which is their message and the fact that they didn't offer any ideas, they didn't have a program. They've been pretty good at criticizing the administration over the years, but, obviously, the American people aren't buying it. But as long as they're worried about you and focusing their criticism and their ire on you, instead of looking at their own internal problems and difficulties, that's probably an advantage for we Republicans. Q And on that note, we'll take a brief break, Mr. Vice President, and when we come back, we'll get personal. THE VICE PRESIDENT:

(Pause.)

Okay.

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Q All right, now, let's get personal. We're still rolling? You're from Wyoming, Mr. Vice President. When you were growing up in that small state in a small town, did you ever think you'd be here? THE VICE PRESIDENT: No, I can't say that I did, Cal. I grew up in the wide open spaces in Wyoming - - w e think of as a big space with a very few people in it. And we kind of like it that way. But, no, my interest in politics and government really developed later on when I was a student -graduate student then. Started out to be a political scientist and a professor, and I got off into the political world and never went back to academia. Q Did you want to be something else? For example, I wanted to be in show business, and a lot of people think . news has become show business. But did you ever dream about being something else before you got interested in political science? THE VICE PRESIDENT: I thought about being an engineer at one point, I can recall. Didn't last all that long. But when I was a teenager growing up in Wyoming, I did a lot of fishing and hunting and was focused on the here and now and really didn't think long-term about much of anything. That came later on after I'd sort of decided that, well, first of all, I was serious about getting married to my wife, Lynne, \d she made it clear that my unfocused ramblings weren't J going to be welcome. So I got serious about getting an education and trying to improve my competence and capabilities. One thing led to another, and I ended up in Washington, and initially came to spend a year, -- the Congress. And I stayed -- well, now it's been over 34 years. _ Q Well, you came officially the first time under the Nixon administration, 1969. How has Washington changed? And I'm not just talking about security. It's so much harder to get into these buildings now than 30 years ago. But how has it changed for better or for worse since you first saw it as a professional in the Nixon administration? THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, it's been a fascinating 30some years. I think of it in terms of the historic periods we've been through. And I look back, for example, on those days, 1968, I arrived here in the fall of 1968. We'd had the Kennedy assassination, Bobby Kennedy, the King assassination that year, the Tet offensive in Vietnam, riots in the cities. It was a very unsettled time in America. And I went through the early '70s, and then the Watergate period, came back -- after I'd worked in the Nixon

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administration -- went to work for President Ford and sort of observed up close the President deal with the serious constitutional crisis that Watergate represented. So I think of it in terms of those historic periods that I was here. I'm tremendously impressed with the progress we've made over the years. I spent a lot of my time when I was in Congress on the Intelligence Committee, as Chief of Staff for President Ford, Secretary of Defense, worried about the Cold War and the Soviet Union and all-out global nuclear war with our adversaries. And of course, we don't have that problem any more. The Soviet Union collapses, the Cold War ended in victory for the West. So we've made enormous progress in that regard. I look at our economy, I look at the spread of democracy and freedom around the world, and I think all of those are very positive trends. Q And yet, a lot it's a much more cynical things out of conviction pollster first. Is that

of people say, Mr. Vice President, town now, that people don't do any more, they consult their a change?

MR. VICE PRESIDENT: Yes and no, I suppose. I think there are still -- it's a temptation to say that this particular time is unique in that respect, it's more cynical than it's ever been, or politics is rougher than it's ever been. But you can go back in our history, look back over 200-plus years, and find examples when it was tougher. I mean, if you were here in the depths of Watergate, as a Republican, and worked in the Nixon administration, that was a very, very tough and difficult time. And you think about the trauma and turmoil of Vietnam and how that fed back into the domestic politics here. So I'm reluctant to say that it's worse now than it's been in the past. That doesn't mean we always get it right; we don't. But it's -- I look at our political system and our political processes as sort of shaping the future of the nation, and the opportunity to become engaged in the debates, the great debates that have shaped our history and will shape the future, and it's such a unique aspect of our civilization that we're able to do that. And very few people in the history of the world have ever had that right that we oftentimes take for granted. And you can't help but be an optimist about it, about our ability to overcome problems in the past and I think our ability to overcome problems we'll face in the future. So I'm basically positive and upbeat. You've got to be an optimist to be in this business. Other than that -- or a

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glutton for punishment. And I'm back now for my fourth administration, so I'm one or the other. Q Your wife told Gretta vanSustern the other night that you're a good cook. How did that happen? THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I don't know if I'm a good cook, but I learned from my grandfather at an early age. I had a grandfather who cooked on the Union Pacific Railroad for the section gangs that repaired the track. My grandparents actually lived in a railroad car and traveled up and down the Union Pacific Railroad in the West. And we'd go down and spend a week or so with them at a time when I was 8 or 9 or 10 years old. And my grandfather taught me to cook. So I know my way around the kitchen; I wouldn't qualify to do it as a full-time occupation, but when there's serious cooking to be done in our family, I'm the one who does it. Q Well, Lynne looked very healthy, so I assume that she's eating good stuff. THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I'm not doing a lot of cooking these days. The stewards take care of us now. Q Yes, they do. The President is quite open about his faith and what sustains him. What sustains you during this troubled time, and during this Christmas-HanukkahKwanza holiday season? THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, it's -- one of the things that I find most rewarding is to get out around the country and to talk to people and sort of get outside the Beltway, move beyond that part of the geography where people are politics all the time, 24 hours a day, but go out, as I've had the opportunity to do during the campaign, and work the rope lines, and sit down in sessions and what we call roundtables and talk with real people about real problems. And what you get consistently is this enormous optimism about America, people who say thank you, who basically will come up to a public official and not allege that he's somehow has evil intentions because he ran for public office, but rather say, look, we really appreciate what you're doing for us and thanks for being willing to get into the arena and join in the fray. And it's that kind of reenforcement, I guess, that you get from individual Americans all across the country that really keeps you going. Q If you could have any Christmas present you wanted, material or non-material, what would you ask for?

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THE VICE PRESIDENT: Any Christmas present I wanted. Well, I suppose I'd like to see a -- like to see this administration succeed in terms of dealing with some of the serious problems we're faced with now, especially the problem we deal with with international terrorism. And I'd like to find a way so that we could diminish the threat that we'll have to live with. I worry very much about my grandchildren -- I think all of us do -- having to grow up in a world where they can't have the kind of confidence in their security and the freedom to live life as they'd like to live it because of the fear or the constant threat that some terrorist is about to commit some kind of outrageous act and take more American lives. Finding a way to solve that problem and restore what I think most of us grew up with in terms of our sense of freedom and security and confidence that we were safe here at home, that would be a great gift for all of us. Q Well, Mr. Vice President, I hope you get that gift, because if you do, the rest of us will be beneficiaries, as well. Thanks very much for being my first guest on our premier show, and we hope you'll come back. THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I'll be happy to, Cal, and good luck with your show. \

Thank you. END

11:50 A.M. ES

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