Mdn Mind Storms I

Marathi.Net Mind Storms http://groups.yahoo.com/group/marathidtnet

Hi, Well, We @ Marathi.Net have a number of excellent debates & discussions. I am thinking of collecting some of them under this title, for future reference. This is the first one in the series. I have kept the mails as they were posted, apart from a bit of spell-check and slight editing to make them more presentable. Yours, Gautam For Marathi.Net Team.

<<<< The Query >>>>>

Dear Friends, Well, this mail is particularly directed to all the members of MdN who are either currently residing abroad or who have been abroad one time or the other. I think most of you have spent your formative years in India. So you know what "India" is.... and living in countries like USA, UK, Canada, Germany, France, Japan, Australia, China, etc you also know what a "developed" country means. How do you compare these two? What I am specifically looking for is answers to following five questions... I] What 'they' have which 'we' don’ don’t have? II] What 'we' have which 'they' don’ don’t have? III] What we ought to learn from them? IV] What we ought not to take of theirs? And lastly.... V] Do you really think India will be a superpower? If yes, in how much time? If no, why not? A few pointers: 1. Plz do not go beyond the scope of these questions. 2. Think deep, take time to compose an analytical mail. 3. When replying, do NOT delete prev text. Looking forward to your inputs... urs, Gautam.

<<<<< I >>>>> Hi, I think that's a great initiative on your part. I will try to answer these questions the best I can, based on my experiences here in the US, for nearly a year (well actually just about nine months).Although I know one year is not a lot, and we have people here with a lot more experience than I do. It would be difficult to answer all these in a single mail, so will write separately on a number of topics. First, what is it that they have and we don't: I would say infrastructure would rank the first in this regard. How optimally it is used remains another issue, but the fact remains that India has a lot of catching up to do when it comes to infrastructure. It is even more of a challenge given our humongous population. I am very impressed with the research facilities of the universities here. Also, the education system here gives you enough flexibility to change you field of study at any point in your career. The strong emphasis on research in graduate studies is what makes the education system largely different from ours. In India we see research happening only in places like TIFR, CSIR etc. The average student is largely ignorant of these places, and even if they are aware, the opportunities to get into these places are still very archaic, involving a lot of Govt. exams etc. enough to intimidate everyone but the most determined. Having said that, what I noticed about most American students is that they have a tendency to take everything for granted They crib when given tough assignments, they seem to want everything on a platter. Indian and Chinese students on the other hand are more willing to put in the effort and are usually rewarded with better grades. One reason could be that parental pressure in childhood emphasizes doing well academically in our cultures. So the bottom-line is we have a great pool of talented and hardworking people, and we need to build an educational infrastructure par excellence if we want to be a power to reckon with in the coming time. For a comparison, take a look at the numbers of academic papers cooing out of a tiny country like Israel compared to those from India, and that itself will tell how far we need to go. -Soniya P.s. Will try to put forth my perspective on other issues as well but it will be nice if more ppl responded. The last time I wrote abt the "Marathi manus dusryachya najretun", and I got just two replies (though they were good ones), while most members were happy discussing whether Gandhi was great or not. This is not an ego-issue, but this being a forum for Marathi ppl, I was hoping a few more would care about this issue, like I do. Thanks, Soniya <<<>>>

<<<<< II >>>>> Hello, I have been to US just for a month now and will be leaving soon for Mumbai. Though I didn't get time to see much out here I will try to put in my experience and views to the questions asked by Gautam. It will be difficult to answer all the questions at one go, so I will try to put them in different mails. So what they have here that we don't have in India? Well there are lot of things but the first thing that comes to my mind is infrastructure. Every town is well-planned and the road network is just too good. The planning and mapping of each road is so accurate that you can actually search for directions by just keying in the ZIP codes. Cleanliness is another point which I observed being maintained at a very high level. You won't see any garbage on the road or for that matter even in by lanes. People do observe driving rules like maintaining the lanes, signals, etc. The reason being very simple. The policing is very strict. If you are found guilty you are fined heavily and also your records are maintained. So if you are found overriding the rules again then you stand a chance of your license getting disqualified. Also it attracts increased insurance premiums as well. The taxes people pay here are actually being utilized for the society in terms of medical services, infrastructure development, education, etc. Also US has many top-notch universities with excellent facilities which provide best of the education. Though we have IITs and IIMs, these are very few as against the number of people trying to get into them. Well that’s all what I could think of for the time being .. Regards, Nikhil

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<<<<< III >>>>>

film :swades cast: all villagers sitting with SRK (SRK in Dhoti). Scene: Dassehara occasion. All are Asking SRK about America. One old man(name Munisar): LEKIN HAMARE PAAS KUCH AISA HAI, JO UNAKE PASS NA HAI, AUR NA KABHI HOYEGA. SANSKAR AUR PARAMPARA. AUR YEH JAB TAK KAMARE PAAS HAI, TAB TAK HAMARAA KOI KUCH NAHI BIGAAD SAKATA. HAMARAA DES DUNIYA KA SABASE MAHAAN DES HAI. SANSKAR AUR PARAMPARA HAMARII SABASE BADI TAQAD HAI. AAPAKO NAHI LAGATA? LAGATA This is the answer that represents all Indians. Right..............................?WRONG. & My answer is same as of SRK's. MUZE NAHI LAGAT HAMARA DESH DUNIYA KA SABASE MAHAAN DESH HAI. LEKIN YEH JAROOR MANATA HOON KE HUM ME QABILIYAT HAI. TAQAT HAI, APNE DESH KO MAHAAN BANANE KEE. KEE & This is the thing we need to understand. We all do is comparison...........always....................why? Why to compare India with other countries? What they Have....................Every country have there own culture, there own traditions, CHINA, who is oldest living hood, they also have there own good culture, where as Afghanistan, just got freedom 2 yr's back, they also have there own tradition. So Does India. But India is different from other countries in every aspect. Every country grows on there traditions, they have there strong points. we have ours. But it is wrong to say that US's Policy towards Indians, of H1b is wrong but there policy against saddam is right. Its wrong. They have there own lively hood. we have our own. JAB BHI HUM MUQABALE ME BICHADANE LAGATE HAI TO EK HEE CHEEZ KA AADHAR LETE HAI, SANSKAR AUR PARAMPARA. JO KABHI NAHI JAATI............USSE HEE JATI KEHTE HAI. We Indians still believe in JAAP-DHARM-VARN-VYAVASTA. We still want reservations in our education system. (I heard, even in job's....whats crap?). We still following old rules. Soniya, u mentioned good points in US Education system. But Did u find any QUOTA type or any RESERVATION in there social system? U cant find these things even in Singapore or Australia. Coz they know, they cant afford to keep divisions in people like this. To make progress we have to unite without boundaries. & That’s why Singapore is hub of CAPITAL MARKET in Asia-pacific region. What we ought to learn from them................ ................HUM ................HUM LOG AAPASAME LADHTE REHTE HAI, JAB KEE HAME LADHANA CHAHIYE ASHIKSHA KE KHILAF, BADHATI AABADI, BHRASHTACHAR KE KHILAAF. KHILAAF Everyone form us, every ES DESH KA KUCH NAHI HONE WAALA. YEH DESH day, says........ES BARBAADI KE TARAF BADH RAHA HAI. HAI U all ppl out there, just answer one small question. We all says (& that’s why need of this topic arised) that India is got spoiled, India is loosing its directions? Can u tell me, Who is responsible?

& the answer , I think, is ME. Its because of me, India is loosing direction. Every time to talk against bad things in our country, I am ahead OF IT. I sit outside of country & crack joke on Politics, Illiteracy, corruption, but what I am doing to improve that? Even I didn’t register my name in voting list, (even thought if u registered, r u making correct decision?), so how come I think to compare INDIA? U cant Compare Lalu with someone else, THeres no Mayawati's left anymore in world (MANUWAADI :)) ). Ppl like JAYA, MAYA & SAMATA play with Atal ji's government like anything they want. U cant find ppl, who r loyal to there party for 39 year & just leave their leader for Post of Revenue Ministry? & this is because of me. If I voted earlier, wisely, those ppl don’t dare to play with my country. & U Know what, u all are also responsible. We always blame to each other. For our needs & problems, we figure-point to government & government give reasons towards some one else. HUM SAB EK-DOOSARE KO DOSH DE RAHE HAI, but we never accept our fault. Do we? Coz these problems come because of u & me, What government will do? Nothing. Its we have to find solution, Its, we, the people, have to create NAYA DAUR once more, so that we can conquer on all ill-things & to win like Dilip kumar. & lastly, to make India best, using its past & seeing the horizon. We have to keep our legs on ground but lift ourself to utmost highest. Not by suppressing neighbored & taking him with us. As Abdul kalaam said, lets try to achieve 2020 goal. when India became super power................MAN MAN SE RAWAN JO NIKALE, RAAM USAKE MAN ME HAI. RAAM TERE MAN ME HAI< RAAM MERE MANME HAI. HAI To end my part (quite long one...) in chearing mood, again. Film: Salaam Namaste actor : Javeed jafari (EXACTLY............SENSES OF HUMOR) YEH KOI HINDUSTANI SULABH ********* NAHI, JAHA BAND HONE WAALI CHEESE KHULATI NAHI, AUR KHULANE WAALI CHEESE BAND NAHI HOTI. THIS IS AUSTRAILA................. MAAN NA MAAN, NO MEHMAAN.............EXACTLY............WHEN IN ROME, DO ROMANS......EXACTLY....... GHOSTS OF THE KICKS NOT LISTEN BY TALKS. THanks & Regards Amit. <<<>>>

<<<<< IV >>>>> Dear all, I will try to answer first question I] What 'they' have which 'we' don’ don’t have? As well known things 'they' means these countries have are Infrastructure, Cleanliness, Discipline, Manners, Respect each other. And most important thing I feel is their attitude, how they look towards life, how they try to make it easier, simpler, enjoying....I will write some examples 1. I live in Spain, when here ladies go for shopping walking they have one trolley like bag, (called carro in Spanish), so that they don't have to carry the weight and it becomes easy to shop for even a 60-70 year old lady. And on all foot-path there are slopes wherever required so that people can easily use carro or pram for children or handicap persons can use their own wheel-chair. 2. Here when people hear that we make bread(that is our poLi) at home they feel great. But what I feel is everyday in all of our homes we make poLya , then if we can buy good quality poLya at reasonable rates like these people get, to make only bhaaji is not time- saving? 3. When these people work they only work and when they enjoy they only enjoy. In our country we hardly know(or better I say we hardly knew) what weekend is....They are quite active people. Swimming, trekking, camping, get-together, trips, going to beaches are very regular activities they do. 4. These people have respect, faith for/in each other. If you happened to enter somewhere after them, you would be given first preference and they will hold door for you. I have seen so many times in super markets, old ladies while paying at counter they will give , the whole change they have and the girl at counter will count for her, take required and return remaining. AaplykaDe mhaNaTil, Aaji he

ek-ek rupaye kuThe mojat basu tumachyasaThi aaNi aajinnahi waTel ki mich mojun dilele bare, nahitar hi nemaki jaast ghyayachi. 5. I remember we have learnt in our schools that policemen are for our security, protection, and help. And it's quite a true here. I myself have seen, it was raining at night around 8 O' clock, on some road there was some problem with drainage chamber, police were passing by that road, and they stopped there, called respective persons. When things got cleared, they went away. Hich goshTa aaplykaDe ghaDali

aasati tar police'anna tar he drushya disale sudhha nasate. Of course there are some things which we have and they don't. I will try to write them in second mail. Regards. Ashwini.

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<<<<< V >>>>>

Dear Gautam and all, This is indeed a good exercise you have put across on the group. I have been in Japan (Tokyo) for 3 months now, may be this is not sufficient period to comment on who is lacking what, where but still some points are pretty clear and can be understood in just one day stay abroad! so I would like to add a few cents..nope, yens of it ;-) I] What 'they' have which 'we' don’t have? Foremost for me are infrastructure followed by cleanliness and tidiness. Japan has amazingly complex and mind boggling trains network with plenty lines running around in all directions! needless to say, trains r damn particular abt time! everyday I step in the train and I do remember our 3 lines. western...central...harbour and their efficiency! Offcourse, trains here are crowded just like Mumbai, but again here are `pushers` appointed whose sole job is to push u inside the train during peak hrs :D Only saying Japan is clean wont suffice but they have `saundaryadrushti`...mere keeping clean all the streets doesn’t suffice here but it should look beautiful..so do come along cute bushes and flowery trees! as if it would be difficult to separate it from a garden! II] What 'we' have which 'they' don’t have? It is `culture`..our values, our family ties! Along with tech, Japan has copied US culture also it seems. at least I feel so. Especially younger generation of Japan is pathetic! they are just dying to be like Americans! divorce rate is quite high and I know Japanese moms who take appointment of her daughter to meet her in some restaurant! but I always wonder..japs have not copied American language :D III] What we ought to learn from them? Having worked with Japanese ppl in India and Japan as well, most imp thing I feel to learn from them is extreme hardwork with "quality" & "sincereity"..i put stress on last 2 values more coz these are the ones where I feel we are lacking a lot! Indians too are hardworking.. on par with japs I would say, but we pay little attention to quality and performing your work sincerely.. just not for sake of it! `karun taku kasatari' is not at all acceptable in Japan! suppose there is a fixed procedure leading towards some output in form of say some product...Japanese are sure to follow each and every step carefully, as per instructions resulting in expected output, but we Indians may not necessarily follow

that procedure, coz we have mentality like..`ultimately am getting the result I want, what makes difference if I skip a few steps therein`! I observed this a lot when I was working in Japanese engineering MNC in India. according to japs, such skipping DOES have repercussions on quality of the product. IV] What we ought not to take of theirs? Again I wud say, we should not blindly follow anyone like I said Japan is doing tht..US is their role model. we should not take this `copying` quality of Japan :p V] Do you really think India will be a superpower? Yes, but its a long way to go to be frank! -Varsha Pendse <<<>>>

<<<<< VI >>>>> Hi All, My views about Australia: I] What 'they' have which 'we' don’ don’t have? 1. Cleanliness - remarkable cleanliness at public places, houses. 2. Discipline and Law - People follow driving rules..may be because of heavy punishments for breaking. Police/Fire dept are too fast to action 3. Sports - Here there is more craze for Sports than studies. In India, we study more in childhood, and work more in middle age. Sports and physical fitness are remarkable in Aussies. 4. Better work life balancebalance Work in proper timing..do not overwork. Even shops close at 5 PM. Many shops are closed at weekends. Only basic necessities are open on weekends, late hours on weekdays. 5. Planning - better than India in some areas. plan their work, holidays well in advance. However do not save money for future...usually whatever they earn on weekdays, most of it is spent on weekends. 6. Infrastructure - far better than India...but mainly because they have money to spend. 7. Preserving Nature - Being famous for tourism, really care for nature. Forests, national parks, beaches well maintained. II] What 'we' have which 'they' don’ don’t have? 1. Hardwork - Indian people are more hard working 2. Culture - Indian culture definitely better than Australian. We have more attachments in families, relations, and friends. 3. Population, poverty - sorry to say but we have it. 4. History - India is ancient civilization. Australia is from 18th Century only. III] What we ought to learn from them? 1. Cleanliness 2. We should preserve nature 3. Work life balance IV] What we ought not to take of theirs? 1. Drinking/Gambling in casinos/Un-necessary spending of money. 2. high divorce ratio. living together without marriage. And lastly.... V] Do you really think India will be a superpower? If yes, in how much time? If no, why not? No. Unfortunately don't think it will happen. Reasons: 1. Continuously growing population 2. Diversity 3. Attitude of people. Regards, Gitesh <<< >>>

<<<<< VII >>>>>

My experience experience of my stay in Russia ::-

I] What 'they' have which 'we' don’ don’t have? Hard work. work Its unbelievable to see old people in their 70s and 80s cleaning up ice on tram tracks and roads at 5 am in morning in minus 20 degree c !!! maybe they do it because of poverty. but they do it so sincerely. Given that situation, most of our people wud have preferred begging instead. Hard work. work Everybody is just too sincere in his work. They try to give more than their best. It’s the tendency. Of most of them. Take my example. I know I can go miles if I decide to give my 100%, but I don’t. I m just too lazy which prevents me from doing so. But I know I will do it and my day will come very soon.

I have been thinking this since years ! And I know unfortunately I do represent many of the Indians. Maybe its in my genes. But its high time I should change. Discipline and Hard WorkWork- Time is time. 8 am to 5 pm MEANS 8am to 5pm !!! You wont find an empty window at ANY counter during that time. 1 pm to 2 pm break MEANS 1pm to 2 pm Break!! Come what may.

Queue - Well I call this as a most precious gift to Russia by the communist era. Any counter u go there won’t be any queue. But u have to ask 'kto paaslidni?' that’s 'who’s last?' ...the person who is last in queue will raise his hand and u r supposed to go to the counter after him. This is just too convenient and practical. You don’t have to stay for long in a queue and u can relax without worrying too much. This applies to all shops, metro ticket queue, cinema hall, any given place which has queue. I know I m not able to express this funda properly in words but this is one of the most amazing things about Russia. I wish we cud somehow bring this Queue-Funda to India. When a local train in Mumbai stops at a station, our tendency is to stand in middle and enter the door. While Russians wud make 2 queues on either side of the door while people wud come out of the train from the middle. Only after that, people will enter the train from either side. Ain’t that amazing?? Saves time and stress. I almost prefer dying than to travel in a Mumbai local in peak hours. The queuefunda can work magic if brought to Mumbai locals. But it’s not possible to change people's mentality.

LiteracyLiteracy- if my info is correct, Russia has almost 100 percent literacy. Well, that does reflect in everythg they do. I have rarely seen a Russian beggar as such. Most of them are from the CIS countries. If at all Russian, he is just too old.

Metro trains and stations - well, u need to see it to believe it!! Every metro train line is one of its kind and every metro station is a sorta museum in itself. The ones like u get to see in palaces of Rajasthan!! And there are hundreds of them. Not to mention the level of cleanliness.. Probably the deepest of metros in the world... few of them run below huge rivers!!! Totally unbelievable.

Tendency to live life to its fullest - Work hard for 5 days in a week. Enjoy on satsunday. Go for a vacation in summer. Its part and parcel of almost every family. But I think the newer Indian generation is catching this fast.

Russian VodkaVodka I don't drink but my friends said u r missing heaven which u will never get to experience in India.

Russian BeautyBeauty Oh by the way according me Russian women are the most beautiful women on this planet (I haven’t been to Venezuela, prot o rico or whaterver.. those weird countries u see in miss universe competition which always win).. Every time I used to see a beautiful girl, I wud think 'if this girl comes to bollywood and speak hindi, aishwarya wud just be nothing in front of her' ... and I thought this for thousands of time and that’s not an exaggeration. A funny thing about them- each of them(99.99999999%) wud have a mirror and lipstick in her bag. in a spare time the only thing they do is makeup lolll...we found it too hilarious. I personally think the reason of this heavenly beauty has to do with the genes, cold weather and Russia’s geographical location. But my kerelite junior, Prajin Vijayan, had a different theory.

" Amith (not amit) bhaisahab, apko pata hai russian ladki ki kamar itni patli kyu hoti hai?". He asked once. "Nahi. Kyu?" I wondered. "Apne notice kiya hoga, kodej (college) mein sab ladkiya high heel wali sandal

pahenti hai. Usse exercise hoti hai aur kamar bhi patli rehti hai. Hamare India mein koi bhi ladki dekho. Pehni havai chappal, aur chali bahar. Kaise rahegi kamar patli, ap hi batao?"

I had to agree to it. Alteast on that day. He was too serious, emotional and was seriously worried about the 24th part of the 36 24 36 thing. Well, this wont fit into "what they have and we don’t?" ... Of course Indian girls are beautiful. Infact I fell for couple of Indian girls only and not for any Russian. They got married to someone else that’s the different story hehehe. ~*~

II] What 'we' have which 'they' don’ don’t have?

WeatherWeather explained below.

Ability to grasp English languagelanguage- We ARE good. Aren’t we? And that helps us big time!! Do I need to go into details?

Tendency to deal with foreignersforeigners- Russians feel very insecure. They have an inferiority complex that they cant speak English. So once you start speaking to them in English, their tendency is to either ignore you or act rude. But try speaking to them or asking them something in Russian language, they are just too sweet. I think Indians are too good at interacting with foreigners. News in ‘TIMES OF INDIA’ (day before yesterday, I think) A young girl near gateway of India was begging for money to a French tourist in FRENCH !! In proper accent and all. That French tourist couldn’t believe it!! Sarcasm apart, but that’s how tourist friendly we are. Russia has some of the most amazing locales in the world. They still remain unexplored because tourists just can’t manage without knowing Russian language!! That’s very sad.

BollywoodBollywood I love discussing bollywood. Especially on groups. Infact I am so happy many of our members love to discuss about movies.

FoodFood Everybody of us knows about it. So wont go into it. My mail is getting bigger and bigger. ~*~

III] What we ought to learn learn from them? Hard working tendency. Cleanliness. Queues. Roads and infrastructure. Following Rules. What Russia taught me? CleanlinessCleanliness Even now I think 100 times before throwing any paper on road. I just don’t feel like doing so. I put the paper in my pocket instead and wait till I see dustbin. That’s what Russia taught me.

CookingCooking I had to learn it to survive. I still remember I took 30 mins to cut one onion on first day and my friends were pissed off. Today I can cook anything in this world, though recipe is same for everything. Many more things but I will try to limit the length of my mail now. ~*~

IV] What we ought not to take of theirs? CorruptionCorruption If u thought Indian politicians are the most corrupt ones, think again. Russians can do anything for money that’s a well known fact. You can even buy nuclear weapons with enough of money. If one were so inclined.

Harsh weather Well imagine waiting for a bus or tram in minus 35 degree C !! Just imagine u need to go to a shop which is just opposite to ur house, across the road. The layers of clothes u need to wear (not necessarily in same order)Underwear, Inners top and bottom (eg. Rupa thermacoat), T-shirt, Sweater, Winter Jacket, 3 layers of socks (sometimes 2 will do), winter cap, winter shoes coated with fur. Fur Gloves. ~*~

V] Do you really think India will be a superpower? NO Too much of population. No family planning. Too many traditions. Too much of diversity. Too many languages. Too many cultures.

We are still united. That’s great. But not enough for us to be a superpower. We think world recognizes us after the crackers we blew up in pokhran but that’s not true. For most of them, the word 'India' still means not more than a 'tea', 'tajmahal' ,'elephants', and 'snake charmers.’ A Russian asked my friend, ‘do u have an elephant at your home?’ My friend said yes and he believed it. And we were really very pissed off. We have to work very hard to get recognized first. Becoming superpower should be the next aim. Regards, Amit ~*~ <<<>>>