Blue Scholars Media Hacker Interview

SXSW Interview with Blue Scholars March 15, 2008 Interviewer: Ansel Herz

Blue scholars rock SXSW at club Prague on March 15, 2008. Seems like other folks have covered pretty well how y'all started as a group. I guess I was wondering what role community radio played... Geologic: Community radio is essential, to not just us, just the independent music biz in general. Especially where corporate radio is at right now - the stranglehold that they have on programming, what can and can't get played. I mean, just frankly, almost all corporate radio is the same five songs, every hour on the hour. And it's crap! It's complete crap. The only place you can find alternate stuff is college radio and community radio. And when we first got started the first folks who embraced us were college radio. KEXP, which is a pretty big independent station. But even each school in the region Western Washington universities, KUGS, KBCS at Bellevue Community College up north - oh yes KAOS, who've been supportive from day one, day zero. When we had no business getting radio play they actually played us and interviewed us. Yeah, it's essential and I respect all the people that put in all the hard work, which I know it is. Sabzi: My thoughts on community radio? I have a few thoughts. I actually think all radio is community radio, just that some of those communities have access to money. Whereas the other ones don't. Some communities have a certain agenda they like to push. But obviously the community radio we're talking about is the independent end of things, the grassroots parts of things. What is unfortunate to me is that there's only a small section of community radio programming I like. A lot of it I'm not a big fan of and it's sometimes actually not very good. However, the community of people behind community radio is always like my type of folks. So I don't know if that means anything but I definitely think that if we continue to strive for excellence then community radio can be really crackin'. As long as people maintain those ideals too. Yeah how's that?

How do you. . .with SXSW there's some criticism here in Austin of it being this huge festival with thousands of people coming from out of town who are very wealthy and don't invest much in Austin. . .Y'all are performing at this mainstream festival, so how do you balance being down with grassroots activism and struggle with trying to appeal to the mainstream in festivals like this? Sabzi: I actually don't know that much about SXSW. I never even knew about it before a couple of years ago, which is interesting. I don't know how it slipped past me. This is our first time here. But the organizers are not from Austin either? It started out organized by Austin folks, but since then it's become - I read in the newspaper that it's between 10 and 30,000 people who come here and spend money at hotels and the clubs and stuff. And it doesn't really reach into Austin - that's been a criticism. And there are not many local bands. That kind of thing. . . Sabzi: A lot of the people who are attending are definitely going to be from out of town, because it's now an international conference of sorts. The only the other thing that I've been to that resembles this have all been in Vegas, and Vegas is a city that's been built around this kind of activity, so maybe that's why to have it in a place like Austin, people are experiencing a lot more resistance from folks cause there's actually people who live here. It's actually like a legitimate city with something like this. But it sounds like the question you're asking as more to do with in principle, how to you balance maintaining your roots and at the same time engaging in gross commercialized activity. I'm going to actually, since I'm talking so much, pass the mic to Geo, so. . . Geologic: No no, you're going to pass it right before you get to the answer. Sabzi: Okay fine. I think the answer right now, particularly because - I grew up in the punk rock era of the early '90s, early to mid '90s, which is actually late for a lot of people who were into punk in the '80s. But as a kid I definitely, through music, learned what it meant to be underground and what it meant to be mainstream, and all of the political and economic implications from a teenager's perspective of what that means. I think these days, those lines are very blurry. It's almost impossible for anybody to make any kind of a living without engaging in the "system" as it were, mainly as an artist. So I think that as long as we try to maintain our integrity as people and try to maintain some kind of connection with the folks back home who we're basically doing this for - be it our family, our friends, youth that we've worked with - that we no longer can because we're too busy making the music. Then that's like the best we can do and as long as we maintain the integrity of our music, that's all that really matters. And the other idea too is to get the message to as many ears as possible, which I'm more than willing to do, within certain limitations. Like I'm not going to go play at a strip club, for example, because I don't believe in that. Or, I'd turn down a St. Ides sponsorship if they were still around. Have y'all had to turn down. . . Sabzi: Yes! Yes. Especially when it comes to endorsing particular political parties or candidates, which we're trying to avoid. What's funny is that the public in general, and youth too, especially during election season, they're so sold on voting as how we're going to change things, or getting behind a certain candidate like it's the new Jesus. . .when we reject that people think of us a hypocrites. Like, "Oh, I thought you were about change and you're not going to play at this Obama rally? Like what's your problem?" Geologic: Yeah. Yes. Okay I mean, sorry what's the question again?

I guess maybe what I was trying to get at earlier is what y'all's goal is coming to Austin, whether there are particular folks you're trying to reach through your playing tonight? And just in general, trying to balance the commercialization of the music industry with staying true to your roots. Sabzi: It's the first time at SXSW, so I have no expectations, I'm actually here to learn. Geologic: Yeah same here. I'm here kind of observing. I mean thank you, for all the information about the festival and how it affects Austin, which is something I'll keep in mind and do more research about. But yeah it's my first time here, just kinda feeling it out. I mean today is a big day. It's the 15th of March, 2008, which means it's the fifth-year anniversary of the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Like Saba said, we're trying to get a message out through the music - and the music is the message. So every time we get the chance to perform in front of a crowd these people are going to get exposed to these critical questions and issues that are still very present and relevant. I think that's one way to balance things. But at the same time, yeah, there's contradictions everywhere and we just gotta stay sharp. Also like Saba said we stay rooted in the community that we come from. Like for me, on a local and a national level, to organize for genuine democracy in the Philippines as part of Bayan-USA. Actually going on a tour this April and May, a college and grassroots tour to raise funds for the victims of human rights violations in the Philippines - these are all sharp people too so they will, you know, check me if need be. And they do, and I appreciate it. It's that type of criticism that I try to keep being open to. Having the heritage that y'all both do, has that helped inform your resistance through your music and actions to imperialism, and I guess I'm wondering at what point did y'all's political consciousness get to the point where it is today? And I'm curious, do y'all identify as Marxists? Is there a particular classification that you identify with? You mentioned that you don't believe fundamental change comes through voting, and I wholeheartedly agree with that. . .Obama's definitely been casting himself as the next big grassroots movement and he's done that here in Austin when he's come and it's kinda annoying (laughs). So yeah, just your political identification and how and when did that come about? Geologic: For me, it started off real early, coming from a working-class immigrant family. Being a young kid of color in America. Going from Hawaii, where I was surrounded by a lot of people who looked like me, to Bremerton, Washington at the age of 11 and being one of just a few people who looked like me there. That's when I started forming my ideas and identification of what my politics are now. . .they weren't articulated as well back then but it was just a feeling that I think by the time I first started reading, just doing research, exposed to issues through hip-hop music. All those things, in my mid- to late-teens - I started just being your typical rebellious teenager, whatever. But around the time I got to college, it heightened to the point where I started meeting organizers, political organizers, and folks who are actually putting the theory into practice. Like what kind of organizers? Geologic: Like campus organizers, like MeCHA, the Chicano student organization. They're one of the more politicized groups on campus that I was exposed to. They actually headed the protests against the WTO when it was in Seattle in 1999 and that was a pivotal moment. That was actually my first protest ever and I learned a lot through that. I learned that it's not just walking into the streets and making noise, but there's a whole lot of educational components that go into that - there's teach-ins, there's pamphleting, there's using the media and press to get the message out. I learned that there's a difference between an activist and an organizer, basically. You can just be rah-rah-rah all the time and have your actions be limited to just vocalizing, and then you're an activist. Or you can take a step further and

actually organize that feeling, that theory, that anger or whatever it is, into something more sustainable and rally whole communities behind it. So after college I hooked up with a group called Bayan, a Filipino youth and student organization which has chapters at this point in several different cities in the US, but it's actually an extension of Bayan in the Philippines, which is a youth and student organization there that originated on college campuses. From then, I started more than just doing individual readings on Marx or whatever, actually doing collective studying and actual social investigations, going out into the community. Like on "The Ave.," "Fuck class, get your education on the Ave." I felt like that at freshmen year at UW a little bit, so that song spoke to me. Geologic: Cool. That's exactly it man, yeah. I thought I'd ask about some specific events in Seattle, too, because it seems like Seattle is a bit of a hotbed of resistance. You had the arsons in Woodinville, not too long ago, somebody burned these McMansions. What's y'all's response to that? Sabzi: I didn't hear anything about that. . .[Geologic and Sabzi exchange words on how they heard about the story.] Geologic: I mean, the principle behind being critical about new housing developments and how they displace people, all the class implications - it's relevant and needs to be talked about more. To go around burning houses, it wouldn't be a tactic I would endorse myself But if somebody for those reasons, I think those reasons need to be out there and talked about. Maybe that's one positive thing, maybe it brings the issue to light a little more, but I probably wouldn't put too much stock in burning things to get a point across. How about counter-recruitment work? I was up in Seattle last summer and I interviewed some folks with Youth Against War and Racism which is a badass group of high schoolers - are y'all down with counter-recruitment and what are your views on youth trying to resist military recruiters? Do you have any experience with that? Geologic: Oh yeah, very much so. The group I organize with, at the time, Bayan, we were one of the community allies. We sent a member of our org to go check out YAWR, to those meetings and whatnot, and actually help coordinate some of their mobilizations at Westlake and with the student walkout. I believe that was around this time last year. Yeah, man, I know in specific high schools like Garfield, there even beyond the students, you've got also a bunch of parents of students who started organizing to get military recruiters out of the schools and I think at that school in particular they were successful in doing so. But yeah, I'm all for that. No recruiters in schools! Stop preying on our youth. If somebody wants to join the military. . .that's them. My brother is in the military so I know people are put in conditions where they might feel like they have no choice or it's an option for stability. But, to be recruiting kids who are 15, 16, 17 - yeah, they can't vote - but they can shoot somebody in another country and take their land. It's awful! I think so. Recruiters out of schools now! And, did y'all hear about the so-called riot at Evergreen? Geologic: Yes, this is actually the first time we've been asked about it openly. I mean, we talked about it a lot actually. Some friends of ours were part of that show, helped put it on. We just actually did a show at Evergreen about two weeks before it happened, so it's the same people, concert coordinators,

who put it on. Oh and shout-out to Professor Tony Zaragoza, who's out there who we ran into at the airport. He gave us a complete run-down. Not to put him on blast but just shouting him out. You know, I checked out the Youtube video, heard from several people who were at the show. They all said it was very much a police-provoked thing and I can't help but. . .you know, people are scared of the police, up and down. Whether you like it or not, we all recognize that they have power. They have guns. They can do what they want and get away with it. So to say that the people provoked it, I think is 99 percent of the time wrong. The people get provoked into doing things when they feel like there's no other option, and it was clearly the case over there as far as the initial response. As far as torching the car and turning it over, I don't know too much about that. But again, my perspective is there's maybe better ways to get your point enough, but considering the amount of brutality that the police have still not been held accountable for, you're going to keep seeing things like this and it might get worse in the future the way things are going. Yeah man, I don't have an opinion either way, saying it's right or wrong. I just know that this is a result of things the police have done in the past, presently. Okay. So, I guess I'll move on to talking about hip hop a little bit. Sabzi (into the mic): We're going to talk about hip-hop now. So, issues of misogyny in hip-hop, and the role of masculinity in hip-hop and the barriers that that poses to women who want to get into rap. . .I have a radio show and I have a really hard time finding conscious, female rappers who have been somewhat successful and have their music out there. Do y'all have comments on that and what do you feel y'all's role is as conscious male rappers in trying to rectify the situation? Sabzi: The over-masculine vibe and the misogyny that's found in hip-hop is something that doesn't just restrict women but it's going to restrict all of us, because - not to even say like, I don't want to be one of those dudes who's like, "Yeah, I feel you. It's really being hard being a man." That's not what I mean. I mean in general, it's something that is the concern of all of us. So a big thing is just by not promoting that kind of style in our music alone, I think makes it stand out in comparison to everything else. Because we get a lot of comments. People are like, "Oh you don't talk about bitches. . .Wow." And it's not even like Geo's out there very deliberately trying to raise some kind of an awareness of the misogyny that's present. But yeah, that's how we try to do it I guess, is just by keepin' it real. Like we were saying before. You want to add to that? Geologic: Sure. I guess I'll address it twice. One is I always have, not to apologize for the misogyny within hip hop, and not to defend it. Because it is, very much present and it sucks. Not that it's not present in other forms of music. Geologic: I think our brothers' role in addressing patriarchy is primarily to address it to other brothers, to other men. And to criticize other men who don't act accordingly or who promote and reinforce patriarchal attitudes and whatnot. And so any time there's a space, an open space, a space of resistance re-claimed by women and for women, I think it's always going to be the brothers' role to respect that and support it. Has there ever been a moment where you've been called out or you called out somebody else on sexism? Is there an ongoing discussion on this at all? Geologic: Even before the Blue Scholars thing, just as an MC and being a battle rapper, you hear a lot

of misogyny in that scene. At one point I felt like I was so caught up in it that it was part of the way I was rhymin'. And very early on I had some sisters in the community that checked me on it when I was doing open mics and what not. And I remember feeling real defensive about it, at first. And then slowly realizing that yeah, I was wrong about things. And there's an ongoing conversation - I wouldn't say so much criticism - but an open dialogue in which we are acknowledging the fact that there is male privilege in society in general, in hip-hop in particular Hetero-privilege as well. . . Geologic: Oh yeah, that too. And I think all forms of oppression of need to be addressed. I think the highest form of addressing these oppressions, these various -isms, is to know its root causes. And from my perspective, the root cause is imperialism itself - the nature of the economy and what's built around it, the society built around it. So there's a lot of people that address these -isms alone, as if they stand alone and can be conquered, without addressing the root cause. But if you're doing that, it's identity politics, basically. It's an empty struggle. I think the highest form of struggle against patriarchy would be to raise it to the level of understanding its roots in imperialism. Which, as an anti-imperialist, I make that contribution too. And then concretely, there's space like - shout-out to Hidmo, a restaurant in Seattle on 20th and Jackson. They do a monthly night called "Ladies First," completely run by sisters in the community and all the people who perform there are all, I think, real dope MCs, women MCs, and hopefully they continue to do that and I'll keep supporting it. Anybody out there, that's in Seattle, listening or whatever, check it out. As far as anti-imperialism goes, do y'all have connections with and are y'all in contact with other hiphop artists internationally and worldwide? I know there's a French hip-hop scene, a Palestinian hiphop scene. . . Geologic: No, I've only heard about some of these groups. But as far as making actual connections and being able to meet them, that hasn't really materialized yet. Over the Internet, I'm in contact with some Filipino musicians. More so, just different music than actual hip-hop. I think hip-hop isn't as present as far as the international circles that I'm most close to. It's still very much guitar-based music is where a lot of the resistance music is coming from. Have y'all heard of the album name of Nas' upcoming album? Geologic: Yes. Seems like the question that gets asked of everybody. . .do you have a reaction to that? Do you feel like it's a good thing or a bad thing, or a sales ploy, or? Geologic: I think it's genius. Yeah, I think it's a genius move. It could be, but everything's a sales ploy if you think about it. Sabzi: The thing about Nas to me is that I think that guy has some integrity in him. When I listen to Nas I hear somebody who is more - like what he has to say is more important than how he thinks people who perceive him and maintaining his career. So I don't think he would just do that as a sales ploy, honestly. And I like it a lot, like I thought it was great. In general, I'm just looking forward to seeing how it all pans out. That's about it though. Geologic: Yeah well, the album better be dope, too. You can't waste having all this attention for just an

album title name, just go to waste. Nas don't disappoint us man, I know you can do it. But yeah, I'll leave it at that. I also wanted to ask, you said in another interview that growing up you would steal records from Tower Records because of the parental advisories and whatnot, and the costs. I'm wondering what y'all's take on file-sharing online. I mean, if I type in "Bayani" and "rapidshare" online, I can get the album in like three minutes flat. . . Geologic: Really? Do that then. I mean, I still steal music. Well, I don't think it's stealing. I still liberate music, back to where it belongs. It's culture. Culture belongs to the people. I know we get placed in positions where we have to commodify it in order to, basically in order to survive, in order to make a living off of it. So yeah, if everybody downloaded our songs and nobody bought any of our albums, it actually would hurt us maybe in the short-term, but that's that much more people that have the music. My thing, that I tell people when I get asked, not so much in interviews but just in general, is, go ahead. Download it. Download our music, download whatever. But don't just have a consumer-ass attitude about it. If you appreciate it then show your support in some way, whether it's spreading the word to all your friends you might not know about the music, whether it's coming out to a show when we come to your town, whether it's if you're active politically, paying attention to some of the issues we're highlighting in our music and whatnot. There's other ways to contribute besides just buying an album. Sabzi: Yes. And I'd like to add. I'm all for downloading music for free. If that's how you want to get it that's totally cool. If you want to buy a CD and then bur eighteen copies for your friends that's also fine. But I don't personally think of it as liberating music, because nobody better try to liberate the music at a live show, you know what I'm saying? We're not going to play for free, we're not going to sell the CDs we made for zero dollars. There is a lot of different ways to sustain a career as an artist and I just think that in today's world selling the music itself is only going to be fraction of it. And people who waste their time trying to, um, lasso the wild horse that is a changing economy, if I may come up with a crappy analogy An appropriate one here in Texas. Sabzi: (laughs) That's a waste of time, man. That's a huge waste of resources, and it is a very laughable moral debate that they're trying to turn it into as well. Like suing some 14-year-old kid to make an example, that's said. And it's really disgusting. Just let it g, man. And start thinking about how else to, instead of recognizing. . .it's like a bird that's grown up and it's time to leave the nest. Stop trying that parent that tries to hold it in. Instead, try to come up with something else that you can contribute to this industry, to this economy, that will sustain you and provide something to the people. So what we do is we work on our merchandise, we work on our touring, and we're going to be developing our web presence for this year. And the music is only going to add to that, so the more people that hear it, whether they bought it or whether they got it for free, doesn't really matter. As long as they're listening that's the most important thing. And then beyond all of that, the whole reason why we're doing this is something greater than to just make and sell music itself. It's to actually propagate thinking. So, that's that. Starting to wrap it up a little bit, any upcoming music videos coming out? Sabzi: "Loyalty." We have a music video for "Loyalty" coming out in April. And it's tight. And, the next album?

Sabzi: No idea yet. No idea when the next album is going to be. Except, we decided in the last couple of months we're going to do one. So that's step one, deciding to do one. Next one is making the music and when it's coming out, I'm not sure. But it's going to be on some different stuff. Like potentially - it might be like, a reggae album, who knows. Geologic: Yeah, we'll see where it goes. We do have a three-track EP with two new songs coming out digitally, a digital-only release similar to the Joe Metro release in November, coming out in April called "Butter and Guns." It might a minute, you know, until you see another Blue Scholars album, but you'll be hearing new songs by us, we'll probably put 'em online. Songs that Sabzi produces featuring other artists, songs that I'll be featuring on, solo material - so yeah, there'll be a lot to chew on until then. I was wondering also how the whole Prometheus Brown persona come about. Geologic: I'm trying to make a story now, because it's similar to the Blue Scholars story. But, you know, the secret here - here's the big rapper's secret. It's like the secret that it doesn't really rain in Seattle as much as people think. But here's the secret. Rappers come up with a tight-sounding name, then create the story behind it. So how it came about was actually completely accidental because I had just put in, it was a line in the song "The Ave.," "I be Prometheus brown stealing the fire out of heaven." I never went around calling myself that, but other people started calling me that based on thinking like, "Oh, is that your alias or something?" I started identifying with. . .I mean, I was familiar with the Promethean legend, the mythology, of this dude who stole fire from the gods and gave it to the people, and then the people were happy (laughs). There are many metaphors for that. It could be like technology, information, culture, and so I'm not casting myself as the one true, but one of many. A lot of us do play that role. So as a cultural worker, I identify with that. And a tidbit which I don't think I've ever said in any interview so this is an exclusive right here: that's actually the underlying metaphor for "Fire for the People," the track off of Bayani, is the Promethean legend. Yup, taking it away from the hands of the elite and making it available for the everybody. Any words or advice for up and coming, or even not so up and coming, hip-hop artists and people who want to be a part of the hip-hop community? You know, your track "Ordinary Guy," you have that line about, "if you can do it, so can others." So, any word on that? Geologic: In the words of Dead Prez, it's bigger than hip-hop. And I think a lot of people get caught up in boxes. I know that's cliched to say. But, ourselves and anyone that has a moderate level of success at what they do, saw the initial boundaries that they were placed in and broke 'em. I think there's a lot of groups, when they get started, they only see, like, "Ima be the biggest thing on my block" or "I'm going to be the biggest thing in my neighborhood." Which is cool, but, if you're not really considering the implications beyond these boundaries, and not just physical boundaries too, but everything, be open and critical at the same time. I think that about does it. Oh yeah, how do y'all keep up with news and politics, or do you, while you're on tour or whatever? Sabzi: I'm really bad at that, honestly. So it's mainly word of mouth, that I then I have to validate by finding a more objective source. Because I have friends who are like, "Oh did you hear about those fires at Woodinville?" And then I have friends who are like, [messed up voice] "You hear how the CIA burned down those houses?" And I'm like, okay, take it easy buddy. If you think collectively, right, not everyone has to do the same work themselves. If there's a division of labor in which everyone does

their own part, if it's our job to be out here doing this, then our friends can help out by keeping us informed about what's happening back home while we're on the road. And in turn, we'll bring 'em stories from elsewhere, or maybe cook 'em dinner. Or you know, whatever it is. So I depend a lot on the Internet, word of mouth - like legitimate word of mouth though, not like, "did you hear so-and-so said something about this that they heard from that." Geologic: When you travel a lot, you watch a lot more CNN than you should. Sabzi: That's the thing, is that like, I can't, I have a hard time watching CNN and I have a hard time reading the news. I mean, I can't read a lot of stuff without feeling like it's either not saying anything or it's just really hammering home one agenda. And as much as there's a soft space in my heart for lefty papers of sorts to counter that, to a certain extent I have a hard time swallowing everything I read there too. So you should really just keep your eyes and ears open and I just default to thinking things are more messed up than they are. People are like, "Oh, did you hear about that thing with the police? Well, I give the police the benefit of the doubt." That's what people say. . .I don't. I do the opposite. Regularly. And that's how I stay on my toes and keep myself informed about what's going on. Geologic: There's nothing more democratic than doubt. I check everything out, man. I know I'm solid with what my principles are, so I'll sit there and watch CNN and pick it apart. Not at home, like in my spare time, but if it's on somewhere, which it is pretty much everywhere. . .I mean it is [fun], like, listen to this douchebag on TV. But I think it's important to support any and all independent media. Even if, like Saba said, not to just swallow it and believe everything . . .but because of the imbalance, even press I don't fully agree with, if it's independent and something that's not being shown in the mainstream, I think those kinds of media outlets need to be supported. So yeah, I keep up with several independent newspapers that you can find at place like Revolution Books in Seattle and other good literature spots. The Internet is a big thing. And as far as actual partisan, ruling-class politics goes, I get most of my information from the Daily Show. I can't remember the last time I saw a real, like, actual political newscast, without it being just on. And, to bring it all back to the beginning, things such as community radio is essential. So everybody that's listening, thanks for tuning in! Alright, thanks y'all.