Ams Log 002

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG November 6, 1991 10 PM ET Topic: GS Music Programs - Noisetracker and MusicStudio Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM), Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene) Forum Consultants: Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt (AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS) Copyright (c) 1991 America Online All Rights Reserved =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=AFC Eddie

Greg, how's your MS problem coming?

ELECTMUSIC Need further consulting... Joyce :) AFL JoyceM What is the MS problem, Greg? ELECTMUSIC Have you used the D5 for Midi Input into MStudio? I seem to get the default note value for any rhythm I input? ie. If I have a quarter note selected and play a whole note... only a quarter note will appear on the screen AFL JoyceM Rhythm from the D5 disk or your own rhythm input? ELECTMUSIC My own rhythm AFL JoyceM Hm....I will check that out.

Don't remember it being a problem

ELECTMUSIC Yet my other Midi instrument works fine AFL JoyceM I know I didn't have problems with the Yamaha. the D5.

But will re-check

ELECTMUSIC Yep, I didn't have any problem with my Yamaha either It was just with the Roland AFL JoyceM Eddie, do you have problems with your Roland and MStudio? AFC Eddie

No, not at all.

ELECTMUSIC Eddie... do you have any Yamaha equipment? AFC Eddie

I've used it with MStudio rarely, but without problem. No Yamaha stuff, sorry.

AFL JoyceM Dan, we we will be discussing what is in our libraries tonight and any other subject that arises. AFC Eddie

Bet Gene knows the answer to this one!

ELECTMUSIC Yea, I think so...Gene, quick question for ya AFA Gene

ok :)

ELECTMUSIC I tried to Midi in a D5 into MStudio and all it would display is the default rhythm value...Example: If a quarter note was

selcted and I played a whole note it would only display a quarter note. Any ideas? AFA Gene

This is a problem with the MIDI signal that the D-5 sends. There's really nothing that can be done about it that I know of. I've used my D-5 that way since I first got it, and I've never been able to find a way to get around the problem. It only occurs with Music Studio, no other program.

ELECTMUSIC Its alos curious that Mwriter works fine. Ok... Thats good new.. well sort of AFL JoyceM Greg, what happens if you you select an 8th note...I remember doing that to solve a problem that I can't remember now why :) ELECTMUSIC I was wondering if it was the computer or the setup AFA Gene

Actually, it's probably a problem with Music Studio's algorithm for processing MIDI data, because as far as I know the D-5's MIDI functions are 100% compatible with the industry standard.

ELECTMUSIC It will only display an eighth notethen, Joyce AFC Eddie

Then why no problem with the Yamaha or the D20?

ELECTMUSIC The Problem was when MStudio was developed the Midi standard was still DEVELOPING :) AFA Gene

Dunno. No problem with any other commonly-used keyboard, either. Strange.

AFL JoyceM Does a MIDI driver change this problem? ELECTMUSIC Gene, I have heard of a couple other people who had this problem, but its the first time it happened to me. AFC Eddie

Are you using MS's MIDI driver?

AFA Gene

It's just something with MS (the actual code) and the D-5 that doesn't jive perfectly.

ELECTMUSIC Yep, I agree Gene ELECTMUSIC Remember when we had ALS online and they explained that they send a Midi signal out to make sure an instrument is hooked up :) Thats what caused Joyce's Yamaha to have MStudio crash AFL JoyceM Yes....and I had one devil of a time getting the two to speak (with the Yamaha) and had to count before I turned on the Yamaha...16 - 20 seconds actually. It was a real hit and miss proposition. AFC Eddie

A & L ?

ELECTMUSIC Audio Light and Sound AFC Eddie

Thanks.

AFL JoyceM Greg...I will try it out...also going to look at a note I have about that.. AFC Eddie

What did they produce?

ELECTMUSIC Developed MStudio for Activision AFC Eddie

Oh!

I knew the name was familiar!

ELECTMUSIC That was the golden age of the GS :) AFL JoyceM Remember, that Big Red Computer Club is soon to release MusicStudio.. :) AFC Eddie

BRCC's add for Noisetracker talks about a manual!

ELECTMUSIC How about a discussion on NTracker AFL JoyceM A manual for NoiseTracker,Eddie? AFC Eddie

That's what the add says. The program, a song disk and manual = $10.

AFL JoyceM Where did you see the ad, Eddie? AFC Eddie

The latest InCider. Dec. issue. Page 67.

AFL JoyceM Oh, haven't gotten my inCider yet. AFL JoyceM We will have BRCC here in AMS in January maybe AFC Eddie

Lots of good Apple II stuff in this issue. A complete index of Apple II software released in 1991. ELECTMUSIC Yea, I thought I detected a slow change over AFL JoyceM Finally! ELECTMUSIC Hey, Maybe I might renew my subsription AFC Eddie

I've heard a rumor that it will go back to all Apple II.

AFL JoyceM Like that rumor! ELECTMUSIC I do like the glossy look...if it goes back to An Apple II mag AFC Eddie

I really like GS+ magazine.

ELECTMUSIC But. its not glossy :) AFC Eddie

One of these days I'll get around to writing a MIDI article for it. It's never had that.

AFL JoyceM Great, Eddie. AFC Eddie

They asked me for one.

AFL JoyceM Let's talk about NoiseTracker if you all want...or whatever. Still looking for my Ms notes

ELECTMUSIC Yea... I have a few questions Ram? How do they get it there AFA Gene

Whats the story with the sound in

You know the 64K DOC RAM? NoiseTracker stores its instruments in regular RAM, therefore instead of a 64K limit, the limit is your free memory! (so if you're someone like joyce, you can have a 4 meg grand piano sample!)

ELECTMUSIC But, I also see instruments in DOC Ram, Gene AFC Eddie

Why didn't anyone think of that before?

AFL JoyceM :) AFA Gene

NoiseTracker tries to place the instruments in the DOC ram when it asks that question "Should 'I' try to move sounds into the DOCRAM" or something like that. You can actually hit "cancel" on that dialog and nothing will matter, cuz the program reads from the system RAM for those songs. (You can hit the button labeled "Ensoniq Soundram" and it will flip to system ram -- suddenly you'll see like 12 instruments when only 4 could fit in the DOCram

AFC Eddie

Thanks!

AFA Gene

the cool thing is that MOD files have been around on the Amiga for a loooong time, so there are a lot of good ones available. (there are also a lot of duds too tho.)

ELECTMUSIC Gene...who and how is it determined the instruments go into Doc Ram The user? or the composer AFA Gene

The program. :) Those music files were not made for the GS, remember :)

AFL JoyceM Question. Can one create a MOD file without having an already made file from say an Amiga? ELECTMUSIC Oooooohhhh....I see, it only works with Amiga files AFA Gene

Nope. Once the "Load" and "save" options are implemented, we might be able to.

AFC Eddie

Can you compose on NT, as in SS?

AFA Gene

Well, it also works with regular NoiseTracker files, but so far there aren't that many and they were all made from within NoiseTracker, so it was just a matter of loading the insts straight into DOCram.

AFC Eddie

How about SS songs on NT?

ELECTMUSIC Are the Amiga sound files ASIF? Yep, I tried SSMith into NT and it worked fine and SSmith used ASIF AFA Gene

Dunno what format the amiga sound files are. Jim probably knows more about the MOD file structure than I. Yep, NT is made to handle SS directly.

AFC DYAJim MOD's are their own format - not asif or aiff...But I have heard that AIFF is popular on the amiga, perhaps the instruments that are combined in MODs were once individual AIFF's. ELECTMUSIC Could we go back to MOd's on the Amiga for a second.... AFL JoyceM Sooo, we need a conversion program to convert SS, SL, etc files to MOD or NT? AFA Gene

GMTA Jim, just about to say that.

AFC DYAJim We need several conversion programs right now :) NT -> SS (if no ram based insts) NT INST -> ASIF/AIFF ELECTMUSIC On the Amiga... what do they use to reproduce sound? Also... is the GS capable of better sound with the Ensoniq? AFL JoyceM Could one just rename the file type to MOD and see what happens, say with a MIDI file? or the like? AFC DYAJim I doubt you can load midi files into nt :) AFL JoyceM Gene, Greg...do you remember that program that Dennis was working on to do some conversions...wonder it that would work? it was a beta version and never was released? AFA Gene

In either case Greg, you're dealing with digitized samples, so it would sound the same on either machine.... in fact, i'm not sure on this, but it might...scratch that... the songfiles would almost definitely sound a bit worse on the GS cuz they've gone thru a conversion process that I'm not sure is 100% accurate.

ELECTMUSIC Is the Amiga 8 bit? AFC DYAJim amoeba = 65k AFC DYAJim How do you know they're converted? I've just heard lots that the fidelity of the amoeba music chip is slightly cleaner and clearer, but it can only do 4 oscs at once. AFA Gene

I mean when NT loads them in, it's converting the crunched sound file format. (Not sure at all on this, just speculating)

AFC DYAJim Crunched sound file format ? AFA Gene

Whatever..... the mod :)

ELECTMUSIC Ahhhh... So the Amiga has a an amoeba nusic chip... AFC DYAJim MODs aren't packed in any way to my knowledge AFC Eddie

CFF, haven't you heard, Jim?

AFC DYAJim CFF?

AFC Eddie

Crunched File Format!

AFC DYAJim lol Eddie! :) AFA Gene

There goes that theory, then... dunno... all I know is that some songs seem to sound clearer on the Amiga.

ELECTMUSIC what music software is being used on the Amiga to create these files? AFC DYAJim I think it's the amoeba sound chip, Gene. Clearer and cleaner, but less powerful overall. AFA Gene

Maybe they're comparing it to a standard GS without noise reduction. I'm sure with an Audio Animator's noise reduction the GS has to sound sharper (than the Amiga, I mean :)

ELECTMUSIC Anyone know what music software is being used on the Amiga? AFC DYAJim I mean, you can play the same digital waveform on two different sound chips and chances are they'll play it slightly differently due to different things in the chips. ELECTMUSIC I am not too impressed with AAnimators quality Gene. frequency response.

They limit

AFA Gene

I'm just talking about the noise reduction, not the digitizing greg

AFA Gene

Agreed Jim, which basically means the last 3 minutes of banter were complete gibberish. :)

AFC DYAJim :) ELECTMUSIC I feel the best digitizing is FSound AFC DYAJim Too bad it went bye bye Greg :( AFL JoyceM And you can'g get Fsound anymore! AFA Gene

I saw the logon.... weird, it said "COMPUTING's music and sound" as if the Forums were a magazine or something.

ELECTMUSIC Isn't that the way... AFC Eddie

Yes, Gene, I saw that in a previous AMS banner.

ELECTMUSIC Soo... does anyone know what music software is creating these files on the Amiga? AFL JoyceM Weird, but no wyrm/banner? Sorry, Greg, I don't know. AFC DYAJim I don't have an amoeba so I don't know ELECTMUSIC Geez... some of the discussions in our forum seem be to from users that know both computer platforms, as if they can create these files and then port them over to the GS

AFL JoyceM So right now there is no way to convert to MOD files unless you have an Amiga? Drib

do any of you guys have a Sonic Blaster?

ELECTMUSIC I have AFC Eddie

Many of us, do, Drib.

Drib

figured, but I have to ask who

AFC Eddie

Got a problem with it?

Drib

Is it easy to digitize sounds>?

ELECTMUSIC I really like the concept of RAM based instruments! AFC DYAJim IBM's can play MODs with soundblaster AFC Eddie

Real easy, if you have a microphone.

Drib

I don't have one, but I want one, and am thinking about getting one.

ELECTMUSIC Convenient is a better word Drib

okay, any microphone will do right?

AFC Eddie

Yes, or another connection from your sound source to the Blaster.

ELECTMUSIC OK, Jim that explains the interest MSDOS users have AFC DYAJim Yep.. they have to buy addn'l hardware to play 'em; we don't :) ELECTMUSIC :) Drib

and Do the speakers that you plug into them need to be self powered?

AFC Eddie

Right, Jim!

AFL JoyceM Another feather in the GS' hat! AFC Eddie

No, Drib, Blaster gives them Plenty of power!

Drib

okay, guess I will go ahead and get one then

ELECTMUSIC In summary then... AFA Gene

Wondering... are there many Amiga users online wearing PCAO clothes?

AFL JoyceM Great, Drib...and if you have problems, we are here to help you. AFC Eddie

Drib, I love my Sonic Blaster.

You can get one for $59!

ELECTMUSIC only Amiga users can create the music and sound for Mod files Drib

Eddie, where? New????

AFL JoyceM $59 - where? AFC Eddie

Preferred Computing. 1-800-327-7234.

$59.95 that is.

New.

ELECTMUSIC we have NTracker to convert these files for Listening only AFA Gene

Exactly, greg... in its current form it's best suited as a playback module.

Drib

software and all right?

AFC Eddie

Yes.

AFL JoyceM Good questions, Greg....and we have to rely on others to give is these MOD files? Drib

great! I found one for $75 used! that's way more

AFL JoyceM The classical MOD file (can't remember its name) is good. AFA Gene

If AO didn't screw up we could simply tell users to use keyword PMU and grab as many MOD files as they want.

AFC DYAJim Exactly Gene.. AFL JoyceM If one downloaded MOD files from, say an Amiga BBS, no conversions needed? but can they be put on a regular ProDOS disk? and the used with NT? AFA Gene

Yep.

AFC DYAJim I've downloaded MODs from an IBM bbs with no problems. AFL JoyceM Ah...we have a big Amiga BBS here....hm...now if I can just find the time :) ELECTMUSIC Its interesting the FTA saw the need for this... speculating why???? AFL JoyceM Jim, you going to write a MOD conversion program for us? hint

hint

AFC DYAJim Not enough time ! :) Who knows, really .. but not till next year at least AFA Gene

FTA's always been into the Amiga.... this is just their first major cross-over project.

AFC DYAJim Convert what exactly tho? AFA Gene

Nothing to convert with mod files, that's the beauty of it :)

AFC DYAJim I think FTA released it to go against the commericialization of soundsmith

AFL JoyceM Converting SS and SynthLAB files to NT/MOD files. I like players like NT, etc, but want to be able to compose files too. AFC DYAJim Compose with SS, import into NT. AFC Eddie

Agreed, Joyce.

AFL JoyceM Right, Jim. AFC Eddie

SS is not really composing software.

But maybe with MIDI...

AFL JoyceM right AFC Eddie

Then a conversion to NT might be something!

ELECTMUSIC Jim... how will SndSmith allow for Ram Based instruments when converted into NT (in other words having a GS user break the 64k barrier DOCRAM) AFC DYAJim It won't. Lay down your midi in SS, then import to NT and add embellishments (I.E. up to 7 normal ram tracks) ELECTMUSIC SndSmith still limits the import of ASIF sounbd files to 64k, right? <---- Not a real sndsmith user AFC DYAJim Of course ELECTMUSIC Geez, I would like to see the Amiga Music software they use to create these Mod Files. AFC Eddie

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