Ams Log 001

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG July 24, 1991 10 PM ET Topic: What's New in SoundSmith? Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM), Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene) Forum Consultants: Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt (AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS) Copyright (c) 1991 America Online All Rights Reserved =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=AFL JoyceM Okay...we can get started...and I have a few comments first... I would like to welcome Jim Maricondo of DYA....better known to us as DYA Jim. If you haven't checked out our libraries recently, we have some very fine (excellent) files that DYA has uploaded to our library on instrument files for SoundSmith. And we hope in the near future to have DYA as a link with AMS. Jim, would you like to make some comments about DYA and their involvement in the music field...then we can get to the questions and comments. Thanks.... Jim: DYA Jim1

Yo Everyone! :) Currently, we have only one music product actually released, and that is the DYA Instrument Disk Volume 1 which is now in the library. We are working on a couple other music projects for the future. We're not sure on details just yet, but there probably will be another instrument disk (now that I've gotten some sound cards for my synthesizer .. finally! :) and I will be finishing Hot Licks, our soundsmith player utility, sometime soon.

AFC Eddie

Sounds great, Jim!!

DYA Jim1

That is basically it for now, but we might change that or do more stuff in the future :)

AFL JoyceM Jim, want to explain a little more on what the SS player utility will do? Mr Toaster Yes, please Jim. DYA Jim1

The main extra features we are planning for it (i.e. NEW features we haven't seen implemented anywhere else .. yet) are several jukebox modes -shuffle, like a CD player, and modes where you can specifiy a combination of files and folders to play in random or in sequence - and some really neat "VU" effects.

Mr Toaster CoooooOOOOOOOOOoooooool!!! AFL JoyceM VU effects? DYA Jim1

We're experimenting with several new kinds of new VU graphical displays. (yah, you know, like how SoundSmith does it in graphic play mode). But we will be implementing several other variations, some of which we've come up with

ourselves. Mr Toaster (How can you have different kinds of VU meters??!? I'm curious!!) AFun Ian

Like maybe analog ones?

DYA Jim1

(Wait and see! :) It'll be a good surprise. :) All digital, currently, except for the LED track/block/position display.

AFL JoyceM Have you all ever thought of making a SS editor to make inputing songs easier? Mr Toaster Oooo, can't wait!! AFL Marty

I wondered the same thing Toaster... until I saw for myself :)

Mr Toaster Good point. AFA Gene

Oooo analog ones! VERY cool idea, Ian! :)

DYA Jim1

We'll have to consider analog now though :) It hadn't come up yet

Mr Toaster Like the little needle ones? DYA Jim1

Let's see.. so far a SS editor isn't in our lineup..Because of other commitments.

AFun Ian

Joyce, SS/Zap is coming along... Poor Jim doesn't need to do an editor! :)

AFL JoyceM Jim, will this be PD, shareware or ? AFA Gene

Especially if you could get the needle-lines to be "jaggy-less":)

DYA Jim1

Most likely shareware, but nothing is definite yet :)

AFL JoyceM Great, Ian....was hoping you would speak up ) DYA Jim1

Good Ian :)

AFL JoyceM Jim, Ian do you all feel that the GS music software is going to get better and more user friendly? DYA Jim1

Hmm.. that's kinda difficult..

DYA Jim1

Unfortunately, synthLab/MidiSYNTH is on hold indefinitely, and there are tons of rumors that SoundSmith will never be completed..

Mr Toaster It seems like it's on the edge of becoming awesome... except for AppleCo. :(

DYA Jim1

However, I think instrument editing and song editing will get better.

AFL Marty

I've heard those same rumors. wrong.

AFun Ian

Well, I'm working on the easier to use side AND the better side. You'll see.

DYA Jim1

(You should see all the bugs in the MIDIsynth toolset!) (there are TONS)

AFun Ian

I don't like MIDIsynth. I think SoundSmith'll kill it! Esp. with my editor! :)

AFL Marty

Bugs?

DYA Jim1

I'd like MIDIsynth IF it was a final bugless version.

AFC Eddie

Soundsmith won't kill it unless it has MIDI implemented.

In Apple software?

Hope they're

You're kidding! :)

AFL JoyceM Agree, Eddie Mr Toaster True. AFC Eddie

THEN it will kill it.

AFun Ian

Eddie, THAT's what I mean! :)

AFC Eddie

Oh!

AFL JoyceM Now that we have some excellent music programmers on AOL, why don't you all get together and write the perfect music software :) Mr Toaster Anyone know Huibert's number? What's long distance to France cost, anyway? :) AFC Eddie

Do you know something we don't Ian?

AFL Marty

I suspect that there is a way to input MIDI with SS...Huibert can't be entering all those songs via the "spreadsheet". I bet he has a private utility to do that.

DYA Jim1

<-- hates spreadsheets. entered one songsmith song and then stopped :)

AFun Ian

Well, even if Huibert doesn't do MIDI, I am.

AFC Eddie

If you check our new files library tonite, you'll find that SLab can sound just as good as soundsmith. MIDI.

AFL Marty

When, Ian?

DYA Jim1

But you can't fix the bugs in SLab :(

:) With

Mr Toaster (Eddie, I thought that was sLab! :) DYA Jim1

You could disassemble Midisynth and go bug hunting, but then you couldn't distribute your new version (yes, I know someone who did this :)

AFL JoyceM Eddie, want to elaborate on your songs more? AFC Eddie

True, Jim!

AFA Gene

Actually.... the really BEST soundsmith songs will probably always be mostly spreadsheet even after MIDI "is" implemented (if it ever happens)... Cuz SS will always quantize the MIDI input; i.e. it will not be like the way SL does it.

AFL Marty

(Guess I scared Ian away :)

AFC Eddie

I just UL'd two SLab songs using exclusively SoundSmith instruments.

Mr Toaster AppleCo's lawyer brigade comes in.... yeah. AFA Gene

<just wanted to make that comment :)

AFC Eddie

You're right, Gene.

DYA Jim1

(darn beatle record company)

AFC Eddie

The Beatles are right!

AFA Gene

Aren't they still selling the Apple MIDI Interface? Sam Ash still carries 'em.

Mr Toaster What Beatles?

>

They broke up already!

DYA Jim1

I can't figure it out either, Gene.

AFC Eddie

Anyway, if you really want to come as close as you can to MIDI implementation with the sound of Soundsmith, you can do it with SynthCreate and AudioZap.

DYA Jim1

The only thing that Apple stopped in the way of music, was synthlab. They still are updating their MIDI manager tools for the GS and Mac, they still sell the MIDI interface, but they're not doing slab/msynth anymore.

AFL JoyceM Jim, how difficult would it be to write a utility for SS to allow MIDI input? Mr Toaster Who seriously believes that Apple Records is going to sue AppleInc? Huh? DYA Jim1

It's not a light undertaking..

AFC Eddie

I do.

Mr Toaster C'mon, they'd never win the case...it'd cost 'em too much money and it wouldn't be worth it in the end. DYA Jim1

It entails a lot of doing..I wonder how Ian is gonna implement it..

AFL JoyceM A MIDI input utility would probably take SL out of the music market. BTW, Mark Cecys still gets on AOL....leave him notes about upgrading the Tool35. DYA Jim1

I heard at KFest that Mark Cecys quit the A2 division.

AFA Gene

IMO the hardest part would be to decide how to split all the MIDI keypresses into SS tracks... like someone can hit 8 keys at once really easily.

AFL JoyceM I had heard that too about Mark...but he has been working on the Mac side soon after SL was released. DYA Jim1

Yeah, I believe Mark switched to Mac :(

AFA Gene

I'm not surprised, yet it's funny cuz mark was originally from Ensoniq.

DYA Jim1

Yeah, I thought the same thing.. he dumped the Ensoniq. What people do to go work on the Mac side :(. The original main author of HCGS transferred over to the Mac side and then got laid off.

AFA Gene

Who knows, maybe we'll see an EPS 16+ in the next Mac. :)

AFL JoyceM What is so sad about this...is that Apple doesn't care or take pride in what they release when it is buggy! AFC Eddie

That would be unbelievable, Gene!

DYA Jim1

Jim Mensch transferred over to the Mac side right in the middle of writing the Animation Toolkit. there's anyone left

So wonder

AFA Gene

Ed, there already exists such a card... the name slips me at the moment, but that's basically what it is.

AFC Eddie

For the Mac?

AFA Gene

Yep. So who knows, Apple might just make it built-in. ?

AFC Eddie

Hmmmm, how about software support for it?

AFA Gene

(Apple doesn't put out the card, btw. The people in MMS seem to love it.)

Mr Toaster Hee hee hee... some friends of mine and I built a digitizer for an IBM. We got everything soldered together, all the parts in the right places...Tested it out... It's a

hunk o' junk. AFL JoyceM Eddie, what to discuss how you did the SS instruments into SL? AFL JoyceM The IBM or your board, Toaster? Mr Toaster I think the Radio Shack guy gave us the wrong chips. AFC Eddie

Sure...

Mr Toaster Both!

:)

Naah, the board. (I know, excuses, excuses...)

AFC Eddie

We took some instruments from a couple of SS songs we really liked....Then loaded 'em into Audiozap for tweaking and size control, which is really essential for SynthCreate. Then, used Synthcreate to make a couple of new wave files. We tried out a bunch of MIDI sequences converted with Midimate...and Voila!

AFL Marty

I'd like to know what Jim means when he says the instruments are "tuned" to the FUN instruments.

DYA Jim1

They're not tuned to the FUN instruments, they're tuned to each other and to the keyboards they were sampled from.

AFL Marty

My mistake.

DYA Jim1

So, a G#4 played by SoundSmith should sound the same (excluding the degradation of quality) as a G#4 in the same instrument on the synthesizer it was digitized off of.

What does that mean though?

Mr Toaster Hmmm, good idea. AFL Marty

Okay... that makes it clear.

Thanks.

AFA Gene

Yep, Jim, I had to do the same thing when I digitized my own custom SS insts. (compensating for tuning i mean)

DYA Jim1

Yeah, that was a pain :)

AFL Marty

How hard was it to accomplish (the tuning)?

DYA Jim1

You'll really have to ask Matt.. BUT, he did a LOT of work in experimenting using a lot of trial and error I believe in finding the proper settings to digitize and playback at. It wasn't easy. The tuning problem is what pushed back the release of the disk about 4-6 months.

Mr Toaster Sounds like a real pain to me. AFA Gene

I did it by ear, so I guess it's just a pain in the butt. To me it was like tuning a piano.

AFL Marty

I figured it wasn't easy.

DYA Jim1

Matt has a great ear for this kinda stuff though :) He's done a bunch of soundSmith songs off of songs on tapes of his, with no sheet music and such :)

AFC Eddie

Jim, I'd like to get together with you for some hints, as I'd like to create some insts with the sounds from my Proteus.

DYA Jim1

Ahh, a Proteus. (I just got a "Proteus/XR Impressions" soundcard for my D70 :)

AFL Marty

I know that disk represents a lot of work. Hopefully folks will appreciate that (and maybe send money :)

DYA Jim1

Perhaps you, I, and Matt could meet together sometime and talk about it. I hope so Marty :)

AFC Eddie

Soon you may hear SLab songs with the DYA insts!

AFL Marty

You know, when you release something like an instrument disk there's always the danger that folks will think you did it in an afternoon.

DYA Jim1

good point.

AFL Marty

Now that it's in the transcript they'll know better. :)

DYA Jim1

Maybe we should add something like "Four months in the making" or however long it took (I forget :)

AFL Marty

I really do appreciate all the work it took. (My favorite sound, by the way, is Milk Bubbles :) That's the perfect name for that sound.

AFA Gene

Yeah, reminds me of when ultima 5 came out... "six man-years in the making" :)

AFL Marty

Has anyone created any tunes with the new instrument disk?

DYA Jim1

The DYA Sampler song in the library demonstrates some of the sounds from a very beta (not tuned very well) version of the disk. But that's about all I know of so far.

AFL Marty

Maybe a contest would generate interest (just thinking out loud)

AFC Eddie

Good idea!

AFL Marty

I'll work on some details and EMail them to you.

AFC SteveB (I have a music question for after the chat :)

AFL Marty

No Steve... I will NOT sing "Feelings".

AFC Eddie

Shoot, Steve!

AFC SteveB Ok! Are there any freeware/shareware Music Studio players? Or any util. that will let you listen to MS songs? AFC Eddie

I think there is one, Steve.

AFC Eddie

Not sure if it's in our library or not, but I can check... So, you're all gonna check out my new Soundsmith SLab tunes, right?

AFL Marty

Coitenly

Mr Toaster I just saw the Amiga MOD converter in your library. One o' my roomies has an Amiga w/ lots o' mods. I'll get some when he comes back to Houston in the fall AFC Eddie

Steve, I know I have one somewhere. for it for you!

I'll look

AFC SteveB Thanks Eddie! :) AFL JoyceM Great news for me...just got accepted to sell my paintings in a top gallery here in Denver :) AFL Marty

Congratulations!

AFC Eddie

Fantastic, Joyce!!!!!!!!

AFL JoyceM And they will appear in a 1992 Calendar :)...am so excited :) AFC SteveB ()()()() Joyce! AFC Eddie

WOW, now you can trade in that D-5 for a Korg T1!

AFL JoyceM Don't I wish...got to learn the D-5 first :) DYA Jim1

LOL :)

T1's rule :)

AFA Gene

Congrats Joyce! :)

DYA Jim1

too bad they're so damn expensive :)

DYA Jim1

Congrats

AFL JoyceM Thanks guys.... AFL Marty

How expensive?

Mr Toaster WOW Joyce!!! What great news!!!! DYA Jim1

the lowest model - T3 - I've seen for about $2700 for the keyboard

AFC Eddie

List $5669 Marty.

AFL Marty

::faint::

DYA Jim1

(ahh, thanks Eddie :)

AFL JoyceM Good grief....picking self off the floor!! DYA Jim1

it sounds great though :)

AFL Marty

It better!

AFL JoyceM You can buy a car for that...almost! AFC Eddie

But, that's just list.

Mr Toaster Everything but the power door locks! LOL! AFA Gene

Marty keeps having major medical problems at AMS chats. :)

AFL JoyceM Fainting seems to be one of those medical problems. AFC Eddie

It's still rather humid here in CT where Marty and I live. So, fainting can happen!

DYA Jim1

<-- lives in ct

AFL Marty

Speaking of which...

AFC Eddie

Really, Jim?

AFL Marty

We have to get together sometime soon Eddie.

AFC Eddie

yes!

DYA Jim1

Yep :)

AFC Eddie

With Jim, too!

AFL Marty

Jim's in Trumbull.

AFC Eddie

Just there today!

Where,Jim?

AFL JoyceM I must be the only AOL member who lives out west! or so it seems. AFA Gene

Jim's from the northeast? I always pictured Jim as being a California dude :)

AFL Marty

But you... I could open my window and yell out to you, Ed. :)

Mr Toaster Is Houston West? AFC Eddie

Joyce, you add balance.

DYA Jim1

LOL Gene :)

AFL JoyceM Jim...want to thank you and DYA for coming tonight...most enlightening and we look forward to Hot Licks... AFC Eddie

And thanks for the great instrument disk!!!

AFL JoyceM Oh, and that too...great! DYA Jim1

Thanks for the invitation Joyce :) Thanks everyone! :)

AFL Marty

Hot Licks is awesome!

AFL JoyceM Thank you! AFL JoyceM ---------------log off------------