Plaintiffs' Msj Exhibits Pt. 4
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Janis Adriaan Pouwelse, Ph.D.
work in econometrics at either the masters or graduate level -- masters or doctoral level? A. Econometrics, no. Q. Have you taken any course work in microeconomics at the either masters or doctorate level? A. No. Q. Have you taken any course work in industrial organization at the doctorate or masters level? A. No, I have not. Q. So you've never done any type of dissertation in economics, I take it? A. No dissertation work, but -- and also we were discussing the collaboration with the Harvard Business School, so working one on one directly with economics professors or other Internet entrepreneurs, seeing how the business models are evolving. Q. Okay. And so let's talk about that. You mentioned one-on-one training. Could you describe that for me. A. That would be analyzing data sets and seeing if there's -- what the impact is, So the methodology of how you can establish
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links between -- or infer links between audio CD sales and download statistics. Q. Okay. And that work, the work and the analysis in those instances was done by the economists, right? A. That is correct. So we both branched into each other's fields to make sure that the gap in the middle was scientifically sound. Q. Correct. And so you provided the technical aspects, and they provided the economic aspects of the research? A. Yeah, but -- yes, indeed. Q. And that was in connection with what specifically? A. It was both the audio markets, and we tried to also do the video markets. MR. REYNOLDS: You guys, I can hear you. Isaac, you're not on mute. I can hear you. MR. MEISTER: I'm sorry. Excuse me. MR. REYNOLDS: That's okay. Q. (BY MR. REYNOLDS) Dr. Pouwelse, you said you did this in connection with an audio and a video study. Could you be more specific
in terms of who you did this with and when. A. This was, as we discussed earlier -let me refer to my CV. So this was the ongoing work with Harvard Business School. So this was from June 2006 onwards with Professor Felix Oberholzer-Gee and his friends. Q. And I will -- I'll provide the court reporter with those names later, but -so that instance, that's the one-on-one training that you've had, was in connection with the 2006 -- June to August 2006 work, research you did at the Harvard Business School? A. Yes, that was the full-time work on that, and that continued onwards as nonfull-time -- nonfull-time research. Q. So after August 2006 you continued but on a nonfull-time basis? A. That is correct. Q. Any other one-on-one experience you've had with economists similar to that? A. Yes. So that is also the Harvard econ computer science people and -- yeah, and other less intense contacts with various economists. Q. Okay. Tell me about the Harvard Page 121
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econ computer science contact. A. That's Professor David Parks. He's one of the experts in self-organizing markets and mechanism design. Q. And is that research listed in your CV? A. That is listed under research and professional experience. That is the June 2007, August 2007 item. Q. Okay. And again, your role there was to provide the technology, and his role was to provide the economics and collaborating in order to prepare a report, is that right, or to do the research at least? A. Yeah, but in this case our expertises are overlapping, so we really do -- because this is self-organizing markets and that is closely related to my work. Q. In other words, the economic work is closely related to your work? A. The economics work in the area of self-organizing markets is fully overlapping with my -- with my peer-to-peer research. Q. Okay. Could you explain that to me. 31 (Pages 118 to 121)
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Janis Adriaan Pouwelse, Ph.D.
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Q. Those are what you view as the important ones? A. That is correct. Q. Okay. So you've chosen two. There are many more papers, right? A. Yes. Q. And you've chosen two of them? A. Yes. They range from a master student who did that for a few months, which is not worth mentioning, for instance. Q. Okay. And the two that you've mentioned are -- one is the Oberholzer-Gee study, and the one that you cited is -- it's listed as Footnote 4 in your report, which is a March 2004 study? A. Yes. That actually is the same person we discussed at the Harvard Business School, who did -- so this is the audio study from Harvard Business School. Q. Okay. And that's one of the studies that you rely on to make your statement that the economic impacts of file sharing are poorly understood? A. That is correct. Q. And then you also rely on a 2009
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I thought it was -- Mr. Pouwelse, you can look through that. I don't know whether you've seen it. It's got the URL -- well, actually, it doesn't have the URL on it, but it says at the top, "The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales, An Empirical Analysis." MR. VAN DER LAAN: Did you send it to me yesterday? MR. REYNOLDS: I'm pretty sure I sent it to you yesterday or the day before. I could send it to Dr. Pouwelse right now if you don't have it. MR. VAN DER LAAN: Yeah, I have it. MR. REYNOLDS: And then I sent you another one yesterday that is -- I labeled it, I think, Dutch report. It's about 100-some-odd pages. A. So we found "The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales, An Empirical Analysis," the March 2005 -- 2004 study. Q. (BY MR. REYNOLDS) Correct. A. And the other one? Q. And the other one, it says, "TNO Information and Communication Technology."
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Dutch Ministries of Education study, right? A. Yes, that is correct. Q. And that's cited as Footnote 5 in your report? A. Yes. Q. And those are the only two studies you cite, right? A. Yes. These are the more in-depth and reliable studies. Q. And that's based on what, when you say more in-depth and reliable? A. My reading of these studies and my judgment of the scientific quality of other studies. Q. So based on your reading of these studies and your judgment of the scientific quality of the other studies, you believe these two to be the most authoritative? A. Yes. MR. REYNOLDS: Could you pull up, Mr. Van der Laan -- I believe I've got the March 2004 effect of file sharing and -MR. VAN DER LAAN: The name of the file? MR. REYNOLDS: It might just be OG.
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A. I have both reports now in front of me. Q. Okay. Give me one second. (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibits 8 and 9 were marked.) Q. (BY MR. REYNOLDS) So let's take them one at a time, Dr. Pouwelse. The first one you have in front of you, it says at the top, "The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales, An Empirical Analysis," and it's dated March 2004? A. Yes, I have that one. Q. And it's marked as Exhibit 8. A. I have marked it as 8. Q. Okay. And this is what you cite in Footnote 4 of your report, correct? A. I believe that is correct. Q. And the next document is -- it says at the top, "TNO Information and Communication Technology"? A. That is correct. Q. Could you mark that as 9, please. A. As 9, yes. Q. And now this Exhibit 9 is what you reference in Footnote 5 of your report, correct? 33 (Pages 126 to 129)
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Janis Adriaan Pouwelse, Ph.D.
work in econometrics at either the masters or graduate level -- masters or doctoral level? A. Econometrics, no. Q. Have you taken any course work in microeconomics at the either masters or doctorate level? A. No. Q. Have you taken any course work in industrial organization at the doctorate or masters level? A. No, I have not. Q. So you've never done any type of dissertation in economics, I take it? A. No dissertation work, but -- and also we were discussing the collaboration with the Harvard Business School, so working one on one directly with economics professors or other Internet entrepreneurs, seeing how the business models are evolving. Q. Okay. And so let's talk about that. You mentioned one-on-one training. Could you describe that for me. A. That would be analyzing data sets and seeing if there's -- what the impact is, So the methodology of how you can establish
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links between -- or infer links between audio CD sales and download statistics. Q. Okay. And that work, the work and the analysis in those instances was done by the economists, right? A. That is correct. So we both branched into each other's fields to make sure that the gap in the middle was scientifically sound. Q. Correct. And so you provided the technical aspects, and they provided the economic aspects of the research? A. Yeah, but -- yes, indeed. Q. And that was in connection with what specifically? A. It was both the audio markets, and we tried to also do the video markets. MR. REYNOLDS: You guys, I can hear you. Isaac, you're not on mute. I can hear you. MR. MEISTER: I'm sorry. Excuse me. MR. REYNOLDS: That's okay. Q. (BY MR. REYNOLDS) Dr. Pouwelse, you said you did this in connection with an audio and a video study. Could you be more specific
in terms of who you did this with and when. A. This was, as we discussed earlier -let me refer to my CV. So this was the ongoing work with Harvard Business School. So this was from June 2006 onwards with Professor Felix Oberholzer-Gee and his friends. Q. And I will -- I'll provide the court reporter with those names later, but -so that instance, that's the one-on-one training that you've had, was in connection with the 2006 -- June to August 2006 work, research you did at the Harvard Business School? A. Yes, that was the full-time work on that, and that continued onwards as nonfull-time -- nonfull-time research. Q. So after August 2006 you continued but on a nonfull-time basis? A. That is correct. Q. Any other one-on-one experience you've had with economists similar to that? A. Yes. So that is also the Harvard econ computer science people and -- yeah, and other less intense contacts with various economists. Q. Okay. Tell me about the Harvard Page 121
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econ computer science contact. A. That's Professor David Parks. He's one of the experts in self-organizing markets and mechanism design. Q. And is that research listed in your CV? A. That is listed under research and professional experience. That is the June 2007, August 2007 item. Q. Okay. And again, your role there was to provide the technology, and his role was to provide the economics and collaborating in order to prepare a report, is that right, or to do the research at least? A. Yeah, but in this case our expertises are overlapping, so we really do -- because this is self-organizing markets and that is closely related to my work. Q. In other words, the economic work is closely related to your work? A. The economics work in the area of self-organizing markets is fully overlapping with my -- with my peer-to-peer research. Q. Okay. Could you explain that to me. 31 (Pages 118 to 121)
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Janis Adriaan Pouwelse, Ph.D.
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Q. Those are what you view as the important ones? A. That is correct. Q. Okay. So you've chosen two. There are many more papers, right? A. Yes. Q. And you've chosen two of them? A. Yes. They range from a master student who did that for a few months, which is not worth mentioning, for instance. Q. Okay. And the two that you've mentioned are -- one is the Oberholzer-Gee study, and the one that you cited is -- it's listed as Footnote 4 in your report, which is a March 2004 study? A. Yes. That actually is the same person we discussed at the Harvard Business School, who did -- so this is the audio study from Harvard Business School. Q. Okay. And that's one of the studies that you rely on to make your statement that the economic impacts of file sharing are poorly understood? A. That is correct. Q. And then you also rely on a 2009
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I thought it was -- Mr. Pouwelse, you can look through that. I don't know whether you've seen it. It's got the URL -- well, actually, it doesn't have the URL on it, but it says at the top, "The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales, An Empirical Analysis." MR. VAN DER LAAN: Did you send it to me yesterday? MR. REYNOLDS: I'm pretty sure I sent it to you yesterday or the day before. I could send it to Dr. Pouwelse right now if you don't have it. MR. VAN DER LAAN: Yeah, I have it. MR. REYNOLDS: And then I sent you another one yesterday that is -- I labeled it, I think, Dutch report. It's about 100-some-odd pages. A. So we found "The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales, An Empirical Analysis," the March 2005 -- 2004 study. Q. (BY MR. REYNOLDS) Correct. A. And the other one? Q. And the other one, it says, "TNO Information and Communication Technology."
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Dutch Ministries of Education study, right? A. Yes, that is correct. Q. And that's cited as Footnote 5 in your report? A. Yes. Q. And those are the only two studies you cite, right? A. Yes. These are the more in-depth and reliable studies. Q. And that's based on what, when you say more in-depth and reliable? A. My reading of these studies and my judgment of the scientific quality of other studies. Q. So based on your reading of these studies and your judgment of the scientific quality of the other studies, you believe these two to be the most authoritative? A. Yes. MR. REYNOLDS: Could you pull up, Mr. Van der Laan -- I believe I've got the March 2004 effect of file sharing and -MR. VAN DER LAAN: The name of the file? MR. REYNOLDS: It might just be OG.
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A. I have both reports now in front of me. Q. Okay. Give me one second. (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibits 8 and 9 were marked.) Q. (BY MR. REYNOLDS) So let's take them one at a time, Dr. Pouwelse. The first one you have in front of you, it says at the top, "The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales, An Empirical Analysis," and it's dated March 2004? A. Yes, I have that one. Q. And it's marked as Exhibit 8. A. I have marked it as 8. Q. Okay. And this is what you cite in Footnote 4 of your report, correct? A. I believe that is correct. Q. And the next document is -- it says at the top, "TNO Information and Communication Technology"? A. That is correct. Q. Could you mark that as 9, please. A. As 9, yes. Q. And now this Exhibit 9 is what you reference in Footnote 5 of your report, correct? 33 (Pages 126 to 129)
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