Brideshead Revisited

Board: "Brideshead Revisited" (1981) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------View: thread | flat | inline | nest 12 Sebastian question by Rainbow123 (Mon Jan 8 2007 15:42:39)

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------I hope to get an answer without any nastily phrased replies. I haven't yet gotten to read the book, but I plan to. I've also tried to read what I can on the web about this story. I watched the miniseries recently, and I was curious about Sebastian. They say he was very unhappy. He hates his family, doesn't seem too fond of being Catholic. If he is meant to be homosexual, is that the cause of his unhappiness? That is, that he knows that Catholics (particularly fervent Catholics, as his family is) see it as being a sin? Again, if this is the obvious interpretation, I'd just like affirmation. Thank you. Re: Sebastian question by gduch2001 (Sat Jan 13 2007 09:29:34) Ignore this User | Report Abuse -------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'd suggest that you read the book.... (not that the series isn't a very good adaptation but it is bound to have to simplify a bit and the book is Waugh's unmediated "take" on the Flytes, not the series. IMHO the book makes it clear why Sebastian is not happy Re: Sebastian question by Rainbow123 (Sun Jan 14 2007 14:57:37) Ignore this User | Report Abuse -------------------------------------------------------------------------------Thanks. I actually like Sebastian very much, and I think it's so sad what a decline he has. I wondered just what was the source of his unhappiness, and I am glad to know there is a way to find out. Does it also mention why he stops carrying around Aloysius? Re: Sebastian question by gduch2001 (Sat Jan 20 2007 04:07:29) Ignore this User | Report Abuse -------------------------------------------------------------------------------well obviosuly there is a way to find out, Read the book. Re: Sebastian question by miz bell (Sun Jan 21 2007 20:12:18) Ignore this User | Report Abuse -------------------------------------------------------------------------------I've read the book and just rewatched the series and STILL don't know why he's so friggin unhappy! I kept waiting for Charles to simply ask him what was troubling him but he just seems to play the role of passive observer. I was hoping to find some help on these boards.

Re: Sebastian question by lisajpothoven (Tue Jan 23 2007 03:32:23)

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------There's definitely the guilt about homosexuality (latent or consumated - I don't think the difference is particularly relevant). There is also the point that Cara (accurately I think) observes - that he is mourning his lost childhood. He wants the impossible - to stay a boy forever, to retain innocence. Perhaps he gives up Aloysius(?) when he gives up hope of that particular dream? Re: Sebastian question by gaelicguy (Wed Jan 24 2007 05:07:46) Ignore this User | Report Abuse UPDATED Wed Jan 24 2007 05:09:53 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------I've often wondered if he died in taking care of Kurt. There's no mention of him at the end of the novel or the miniseries. Lisajipothoven, I think yours is a very good analysis! WE ARE THE PRESIDENT! First Lady, Hillary Rotten Clinton Re: Sebastian question by Rainbow123 (Thu Jan 25 2007 16:40:12) Ignore this User | Report Abuse -------------------------------------------------------------------------------No, Kurt commits suicide in a concentration camp. Cordelia says something about how he'll work with the monks, and they'll put up with him. He'll keep drinking, and one day they will find him and he'll be very ill. That's basically how she sees the end of Sebastian. Quite sad, if you ask me. Re: Sebastian question by gaelicguy (Thu Jan 25 2007 17:27:24)

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes, I know Kurt commits suicide, Rainbow, but in the last episode, when Charles goes to see Nanny, she mentions that Julia, Cordelia and Bridey are in the Holy Land (?), but she never mentions Sebastian, which leads me to think that he had died. That superb scene with Cordelia and Charles took place quite a few years before the final episode, as I recall. I have the series on DVD - it's time I broke the box open and watched the series again. "WE ARE THE PRESIDENT!" First Lady, Hillary Rodham Clinton Re: Sebastian question by gduch2001 (Sat Jan 27 2007 03:25:17) Ignore this User | Report Abuse -------------------------------------------------------------------------------No, he just loses interest in Aloyusius at soem stage during his friendship with Chalres and the bear ends up in the back of a drawer somewhere.... Sebastian is unhappy becuase he is selfish and immature. He wants to be "left aloen" - not to be bothered by human contact nor by the "demands of his own conscience" as Waugh/Charles puts it...so as Charles says, since we all have to grow up, his time

of Arcadian happiness is bound to be breif. His problem is that he can't accept growing up, and taking on adult responsbilities....Since that is the case, in Waugh's beleif, he cannot be fulfilled becuase we can only be fulfilled by acceptign adulthood and its responsibilities

12 Re: Sebastian question by fletchy (Fri Feb 2 2007 14:39:12)

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Another, I think, bigger reason for Sebastian's unhappiness than those mentioned so far is the position that he has been born into. He has inherited a long and noble history with many aristocratic connections across Europe, therefore many expectations are placed upon him. His mother uses her power and influence to control him when he is not seen to be towing the line, enlisting Monsignor Bell and Mr Samgrass. When he is arrested for drink driving it makes the news headlines. To some extent, this is still the case with major aristocrats in the UK. Sebastian is sweet and sensitive, always a kind word for everyone - he hasn't a bad bone in his body. He is loved, but generally misunderstood. Sebastian hates hunting, has no interest in the estate, politics, joining the army or any other career expected of a Lord. His desire to be left alone is a desire to be free of the heavy limitations afforded him by his birthright. Even more influential is the power of the Catholic Church, which is of course inextricably tied up with his family, and its famous 'Catholic guilt'. Sebastian does in fact have a vocation, which in other circumstances he might have been more aware of (perhaps if he had been sent to Stoneyhurst). Far from selfish, he enjoys helping first Charles, then Kurt and finally the monastery as a janitor. He punishes himself for his alcoholism by declining ever to return home to a life of undoubted luxury, even after his mother's death. Having said all that, I must say that I think that his downwards spiral occurs way to quickly - he seemingly becomes a confirmed alcoholic over a matter of months. And it's a little odd that someone so perfectly charming, bright and attractive is a broken down, alcoholic exile at the age of 23! When he escapes Rex no further effort is made to bring him home. It seems that he has one visit from Charles and one from Cordelia in nearly 20 years! Highly unlikely that he would be so abandoned by his numerous friends and vast family. I think Waugh somewhat over romanticized this character. Nevertheless, he is a brilliant representation. Re: Sebastian question by gduch2001 (Sat Feb 3 2007 03:25:05) Ignore this User | Report Abuse -------------------------------------------------------------------------------He's extrememly selfish, he doesn't wnant any obligations, not just "not a career", but he doesn't really wnat friendship unless its on his own terms. Look at how he ignores Charles during the first Oxford vacation and then manipulates him into coming to Brideshead when he needs company? he doesn't want to come home when his mother dies becuase there is nowhere for him to come home to, the rest of his family are not all that intersted in him, drunks are very tiresome.... he doesn't have numerous friends by the tiem he legs it, he has more or less dropped all his Oxford friends except Charles and he doesn't want to be embroiled

with his vast Catholic family..... yes he does look after Kurt and that is the beginning of his regeneration, loving another person and looking after him is the beginning of wisdom and redemption..... Re: Sebastian question by SeanMurphy (Thu Mar 1 2007 03:54:52) Ignore this User | Report Abuse -------------------------------------------------------------------------------I think he can't live up to the expectations of himself, such as his duty to the church, his familiy or how he is meant to behave. so he feels a constant sense of guilt. His mother was abandoned by her husband, but she was able to react like a martyr. She is very placid and restrained outwardly. But she implies that she is very disapointed in his behaviour. And makes him feel very guilty and that he has let her down. When Julia breaks down near the end, she has this image of her mother dying. but her mother being hurt more by the emotional pain of Julia having an affair with Rex than the physical pain. Thats the kind of guilt that would hurt Julia forever. So I think a lot of it is guilt. There is a lot of repressed feelings which probably makes it worse than if it was expressed. For example Brideshead felt disapproval that Julia was living in sin, yet never expressed it. Or his mother being disapointed or feeling pain but never says it. I think Sebastian wanted to forget about that world. Lose himself in a different world with different people. With Kurt, Sebastian feels useful, his simple purpose is to look after Kurt and make sure he is ok. It is not as complicated as fulfilling his duty to the church, etiquette and his familiy. He doesn't feel a failure.

Re: Sebastian question by vernors-2 (Wed Apr 4 2007 08:16:52)

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Here's my take on this question. Sebastian, more than any of the Flytes, is truly religious, and loves being a Catholic. In a sense, he is truly a Catholic in how he thinks and feels. However, his Chruch and family condemns him as a sinner because he is gay. He is living a contradiction, and the longer that goes on, the worse he feels. He cannot give up his religion like his father did, and he is haunted by the religious naivete of Cordelia, perhaps the one family member he truly loves. He cannot reconcile his feelings, and so, he's caught in an endless loop. He escapes through drinking, and then literally escapes by moving to Morrocco, as far away as he can get from his problems. Re: Sebastian question by gduch2001 (Wed Apr 4 2007 09:04:56) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Here's my take on this question. Sebastian, more than any of the Flytes, is truly religious, and loves being a Catholic. ----------I see no evidence of Sebastian being very religious... he refers to himslef as "half pagan" when at college and while at that stage he IS clealry not totally uninterested in his religion, he's hardly very passionate about it either. Bridey and Cordeila are the "devout" ones..... Re: Sebastian question by vernors-2 (Wed Apr 4 2007 10:56:58) Ignore this User | Report Abuse -------------------------------------------------------------------------------Outwardly, I agree with you, but I think inwardly Sebastian is quite religious. Re: Sebastian question by gduch2001 (Tue May 29 2007 03:12:42) Ignore this User | Report Abuse -------------------------------------------------------------------------------That is wonderfully logical!