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subject:advaita-l digest, vol 56, issue 4 to:[email protected] date:thu, 06 dec 2007 12:00:01 -0600 send advaita-l mailing list submissions to [email protected]

to subscribe or unsubscribe via the world wide web, visit http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] you can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] when replying, please edit your subject line so it is more specific than "re: contents of advaita-l digest..." today's topics: 1. re: advaita in one sloka (guy werlings) 2. re: importance of ashram (karthik subramanian) 3. conduct of swamijis (was re: importance of ashram) (siva senani nori)

---------------------------------------------------------------------message: 1 date: wed, 5 dec 2007 19:55:13 +0100 from: "guy werlings" <[email protected]> subject: re: [advaita-l] advaita in one sloka to: "a discussion group for advaita vedanta" message-id: <000301c83770$5eadc350$0a01a8c0@guy> content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original shrii s.n. sastri mahodaya |

namo namah |

thank you very much for having pointed out for all of us the enlightening verse of the narayaniyam (98.7). i decided to copy your quotation in a separate file in order to be able to use it also at a later time. moreover, i also tried to convert it into devanagari by using itranslator; but the result was not up to my expectations. i suspected and easily came to the conclusion that your encoding was not pure itrans but a mix of several encoding systems, especially for the sibilant sh (instead of shh or sh) and the vowel ri (r instead of r^i or rr). if i am right, to be read properly by itranslator the text of the shloka in itrans should have been:

bhushhasu svarnavadva jagati ghatasaravadike mr^ittikavat tattve sa~ncintyamane sphurati tadadhunapyadvitiyam vapuste | svapnadrashhtuh prabodhe timiralayavidhau yadvadvidyalabhe tathaiva sphutamapi vikaset kr^ishhna tasmai namaste ||

instead of

bhushasu svarnavadva jagati ghatasaravadike mrttikavat tattve sancintyamane

sphurati tadadhunapyadvitiyam vapuste |

svapnadrashtuh

prabodhe

timiralayavidhau yadva-

dvidyalabhe tathaiva sphutamapi vikaset krshna tasmai namaste ||

i do apologize for being once more the hair-splitter and fussy member of the list. any person proficient in sanskrit will have of course corrected these minor defects straight and by himself (without waiting for me), but this finicky message may also perhaps be of some help for others and namely beginners in sanskrit. i do hope my attempt will not be misinterpreted.

yours in lord guruvayurappan!

guy werlings

----- original message ----from: "s.n. sastri" <[email protected]> to: ; sent: wednesday, december 05, 2007 3:04 pm subject: [advaita-l] advaita in one sloka the essence of advaita vedanta is given in a nutshell in the following sloka in narayaniyam of narayana bhattatiri (dasaka 98, sloka 7):-bhushasu svarnavadva jagati ghatasaravadike mrttikavat tattve sancintyamane svapnadrashtuh

sphurati tadadhunapyadvitiyam vapuste |

prabodhe

timiralayavidhau yadva-

dvidyalabhe tathaiva sphutamapi vikaset krshna tasmai namaste || tattve sancintyamane- when one reflects on the true nature of things, bhushasu svarnavadva?like gold in ornaments, or, ghatasaravadike?in pots and other vessels, mrttikavat?like clay, jagati- in the universe, tat advitiyam te vapuh?that non-dual aspect of thine (alone), adhuna api?even now (when we experience the universe as existing), sphurati- shines. svapnadrashtuh- for the dreamer, prabodhe- on waking up, timiralayavidhau?when the darkness is removed (by light), jirnarajjoh ca- of the worn-out rope also, yadvat tatha eva?in the same way itself,

vidyalabhe?on the dawn of knowledge, sphutam vikaset api?the reality will also shine clearly, (he) krshna, tasmai te namah?o krshna, prostrations to thee, who art that (the reality). when one reflects on the true nature of things, one will realize that, just as there is nothing but gold in all gold ornaments, and nothing but clay in all pots and other earthen vessels, so also, there is only thy non-dual self in reality even when this universe is seen as existing. this reality will shine clearly on the dawn of knowledge, just as the things seen in a dream are found, on waking up, to have never existed and the worn-out rope (which was mistaken for a snake) is seen clearly when the darkness is removed by a light. o krshna, prostrations to thee who art that reality. s.n.sastri _______________________________________________ archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/ to unsubscribe or change your options: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l for assistance, contact: [email protected]

-----------------------------message: 2 date: thu, 6 dec 2007 04:52:26 +0000 (gmt) from: karthik subramanian subject: re: [advaita-l] importance of ashram to: a discussion group for advaita vedanta message-id: <[email protected]> content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 hi, i don't think i stated that the guidance of a guru is not necessary for enlightenment. on the contrary, it is my firm belief that just with the grace of the guru, the highest knowledge is conferred upon the sadhaka. i seemed to infer from anuj's message that some spiritual giants attained enlightenment without the interference of a guru. that was the reason for my questions. even though ramana maharshi was not guided by a physical guru, he says that it was arunachaleshwara who graced him as a guru in aksharamanamalai.

|| na guror adhikam tatvam na guror adhikam tapah || regards, karthik krishnamurthy ramakrishna wrote: hi karthik, ramana maharshi also was enlightened out of his own experience. enlightening out of one's own experience is advaita. if a guru is not the instrument, it does not mean there was no hand of guru; it goes without saying that the guru led him up to that stage in the prior life or lives. all that was needed in that particular life was a trigger to bring out that experience and enlightenment. the role of a guru is never overstated. can you receive a phd degree without the advice of a phd or equivalent experience? regards, krishnamurthy ramakrishna. -----original message----from: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] on behalf of karthik subramanian sent: wednesday, december 05, 2007 8:18 am to: a discussion group for advaita vedanta subject: re: [advaita-l] importance of ashram hi, @anuj >> from budha, to ramakrishna to christ, they all grew out of their own knowledge to become enlightened. << few questions:1. if all these grew out of their own knowledge to become enlightened and if you intend to quote that as example, why ever do you need to go and study under swami parthasarathi? 2. does this mean that the role of a guru is overdefined? 3. could you please elaborate on the enlightenment of the buddha and the christ? by the way, sri ramakrishna indeed became enlightened out of his own knowledge, but he received guidance from three great masters - bhairavi brahmani, totapuri, and last but not least, bhavatharani.

@jagan >> for all that you know the sringeri swamiji may not even admit someone that is not a brahmana or not done veda adhyayana << what makes you so sure about this? >> hh chandrasekhara bharathi swamigal himself has said that advaita cannot be taught but only experienced. in one of the quotes he mentions to an aspirant that he may at best clarify some grammar of the vedic texts but cannot teach advaita. << isn't there any extent to interpret the words of a world-renowned jivanmukta in a literal way? hh chandrashekhara bharathi need not had to utter a word. just a brief glance of his conferred the highest knowledge on several people. the erstwhile peetadhipathi of sri yoganandeshwara saraswathi mutt, yedatore, sri ganapathi bharati was one such person that had this good fortune. a very ordinary patashala vidyarthi that he was, a glance from hh changed his whole life. he attained vast knowledge of the veda, vedantha and shastra. he is known his knowledge of purvamimamsa and for the performance of several mahayagnas like the garudachayana and darshapurnamasa. after becoming a turiyashrami, he shone as one of the greatest realized masters. @ravi >> when i look at the videos in sringeri's website or any others in which sringeri swamiji appears, he is often flocked by priests or brahmins only, and seems to maintain quite a bit of physical distance between himself and devotees. i cannot help wondering if adi shankara himself laid down such laws to be followed by all the leaders of the shankara matha in subsequent years. if a book listing such laws does exist, can someone please point the same to me? << the following is quoted (edited by me for brevity) from a discussion at www.kanchiforum.org/forum/ ----------- "abrahmakita janani" -- a namavali in lalitha sahasranamam. the nama next to this is varnasramavidhayini. combining these two names, periyavaal (kanchi paramacharya) answered a question. periyavaal was giving darshan. a bhakta asked: "since lalitha

sahasrananam mentions that ambaal is the mother of all this world we all become sahodharas. if this is so, why to move with some people without physically coming in touch with them or touching them? how is this untouchability appropriate?" periyavaal: for this question the answer is in the very next namavali. "ambaal who is the mother of everyone has also established the regulation of varnasrama. she is also the varnasramavidhayini ! -----------

|| labhed vanchitartham padam brahmasamjnam guroruktavakye mano yasya lagnam ||

regards, karthik --------------------------------get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. click here to know how. _______________________________________________ archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/ to unsubscribe or change your options: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l for assistance, contact: [email protected] _______________________________________________ archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/ to unsubscribe or change your options: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l for assistance, contact: [email protected]

regards, karthik --------------------------------unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. get it now -----------------------------message: 3 date: wed, 5 dec 2007 23:05:44 -0800 (pst) from: siva senani nori <[email protected]> subject: [advaita-l] conduct of swamijis (was re: importance of ashram)

to: a discussion group for advaita vedanta message-id: <[email protected]> content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ----- original message ---from: ravi parimi [email protected] don't mean to begin a flame-war here, but isn't it ironic that an institute that is committed to spreading the knowledge of vedanta and supposedly abides in the fact "sarvam khalvidam brahma" bases so many of its actions on caste? when i look at the videos in sringeri's website or any others in which sringeri swamiji appears, he is often flocked by priests or brahmins only, and seems to maintain quite a bit of physical distance between himself and devotees. i cannot help wondering if adi shankara himself laid down such laws to be followed by all the leaders of the shankara matha in subsequent years. if a book listing such laws does exist, can someone please point the same to me? dear ravi garu i write with great respect towards your actual practice of learning the sruti through international calls. i am not sure that the main purpose of the various mutts is to spread the knowledge of vedanta; i think it is the upholding of dharma, which has the varna-asrama dharma as its bedrock in practice, so to speak. (this qualifier is required because ultimately the virtues of ahimsa, asteya etc. are the more important aspects of practice; but since they are not tangible and not amenable to criticism - they are the same in buddhism as well - critics ignore them.) the various pithadhipatis have elaborated many times on this seeming contradiction between the teaching of vedanta and the practice of varna dharma. they are quite open about it and do not claim to uphold anything different. that said, the bhaktas are always referred to as the chaturvarnya bhaktas of so and so master. and, in intimate personal matters, brahmins are not very different from others. for instance, pithadhipatis usually do not take food from all brahmins (even if they are smartas, or belong to the same school in case of jeers etc.); nobody touches the pithadhipati's feet during padabhivandanam, and so on. we are not a people of the book, in so many senses. to the best of my knowledge, the bhagavatpada did not lay down any rules of conduct for the pithadhipatis, or for that matter, for those of other ashramas. that had been done by sages like apastamba, gautama and bodhayana, who are all very particular about the varnasrama dharma. the authority of those sages flows from the vedas, and the sruti itself says (in taittiriya upanishad, siksha valli, in the penultimate anuvaka) that in case of doubt as to what dharma is, the practice of learned and respected brahmins is the guide. as such, the guiding principle of the practices of pithadhipatis, to the extent i heard and understood, is to lay down the standard for other sanatins to follow - and not the requirements or sanctions of their ashrama (sannyasa). the socialist in me has often been told by my elders to try to follow the example of these great living sages in terms of personal discipline, control of anger and the other enemies, love to all, detachment etc. rather than focus on what is wrong in eating with mlechcha colleagues at office.

i hope this helps. senani

________________________________________________________________________________ ____ looking for last minute shopping deals? find them fast with yahoo! search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping -----------------------------_______________________________________________ archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/ to unsubscribe or change your options: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l for assistance, contact: [email protected] end of advaita-l digest, vol 56, issue 4 **************************************** deletereplyforwardspammove... previous | next | back to messages save message text | full headers check mailcompose search mail: search mailsearch the web move options [new folder] dr. rajamohan writing flder advaita buying and selling dto franchise guide hrd important web a... local represent... mail-1 mail1 offers personal psychology responses science shanthakumar forward options as inline text as attachment reply options reply to sender reply to everyone address book shortcuts

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