Where To Start

Sub jec t : Prog ramming : Where to s ta r t ? So , I want to ac tua l l y " l ea rn" a programming l anguage , ra the r than con t inue hack ing th ings toge the r f rom ex i s t i ng code . Prob lem i s , I can ' t dec ide which

one , or how to go about i t . I t r i ed l ea rn ing to code back be fo re Mac OS X by buy ing a book on l ea rn ing to prog ram i n C f o r the Mac . I d idn ' t get th rough the

book

Some

then , of

but the

I 'm

wi l l i ng

l anguages

to

g ive

it

I ' ve

anothe r

sho t

cons ide red

now.

are :

Ob jec t i ve - C C++ PHP Py thon

I rea l i ze some o f these l anguages are pre t ty d i f f e ren t . I ' l l s ta r t wi th why I cons ide red

the

above

l anguages .

Ob jec t i ve - C,

C++

My p la t fo rms o f cho i ce are Mac OS X and L inux . I eas i l y

need someth ing tha t i s

t rans fe rab le f rom one p la t fo rm to the othe r .

I 'd

l i ke the ab i l i t y

mak ing graph i ca l app l i ca t i ons f o r both . Cod ing f o r Windows i s not a pr i o r i t y for

me,

but

be ing

ab le

to

do

more

is

never

bad ,

of

course .

I 'm l ook ing at Ob jec t i ve - C because i t ' s App le ' s pre fe r red l anguage f o r Mac OS X and XCode seems des igned f o r i t , we l l

wi th some othe r

l anguages .

though I

unders tand i t

The n i ce ly i n teg ra ted ,

a l so works

f ree ly ava i l ab le ,

Ob jec t i ve - C ready App le too l s are a n i ce p lus f o r the l anguage , howeve r .

But , I 'm not su re how por tab le or t rans fe rab le th i s wou ld be to L inux . That ' s why I ' ve a l so cons ide red C++. Of course , the d i f f e rences between the two l anguages I unders tand are minor , as they both sha re the bas i c C l anguage se t . I 'm not su re about the d i f f i cu l ty here . Some peop le seem to f i nd the l anguage

d i f f i cu l t .

PHP PHP seems a s imp le r l anguage to l ea rn , and I f i nd i t ' s se rve r /web emphas i s very use fu l .

I ' ve o f ten hacked PHP sc r ip t s qu i te e f fo r t l e ss l y to do what

need , even though I do not "know" PHP. To me, th i s h igh l i gh ts the power o f s imp l i c i t y tha t PHP o f fe r s . I

wou ld de f in i te l y l i ke to be ab le to wr i te so

s imp le

apps

web

us ing

PHP.

But aga in , I

am a l so very i n te res ted i n wr i t i ng desk top apps f o r Mac OS X

and L inux . I n f ac t , I wou ld l ove to be ab le to make c l i en t / se rve r apps , one o a se rve r ( f o r examp le a photo ga l l e ry sc r i p t )

and one on the desk top to

i n te rac t wi th the f o rmer (pos t ing a photo ga l l e ry to a web s i te us ing the desk top The

app

th ing

is,

app l i ca t i ons .

I 'm

not

Wou ld i t

su re

of

c l i en t ) . the

be a d i f f i cu l t

prac t i ca l or

l im i t s

over l y

to

PHP f o r

comp lex task to

desk to c rea te

graph i ca l app f o r Mac OS X or L inux us ing PHP , or wou ld th i s be as s imp le or s imp le r than do ing i t i n C or some othe r "ma ins t ream" desk top l anguage? A l l I ' ve heard o f i n rega rds to desk top GUI apps and PHP i s PHP- GTK , but tha t appears

to

be

a

re l a t i ve l y

new

endeavo r .

Py thon I

unders tand th i s l anguage a l so has l e ss comp lex syn tax f o r a beg inner to

p i ck up , and tha t i t

i s used on the desk top , but I

don ' t know a who le l o t

about

it.

Other

Languages

I know a l l the rage i s about Ruby on Ra i l s now as f a r as web programming , but

I

f i nd tha t

the l anguage i s

too new,

and I

pre fe r

someth ing more

es tab l i shed , wi th more too l s and suppor t ava i l ab le . There might be othe r good

cand ida te

l anguages

I ' ve

missed ,

though .

Uses I 'd

l i ke to be ab le to wr i te a desk top to web photo ga l l e ry ,

as per my

prev ious examp le , f o r i n s tance . I ' d a l so l i ke to be ab le to wr i te someth ing ak in

to

a

word

processo r ,

or

a

f i le

browse r .

I ' d a l so l i ke to be ab le to make s imp le game-l i ke env i ronments wi th gamel i ke e lements , ra the r

to

though I 'm not rea l l y

i n teg ra te

game-l i ke

a iming to

graph i ca l

make games pe r - se ,

e lements

for

othe r

uses

but ( fo r

examp le , game-l i ke 2 - D or 3 - D cha rac te r s f o r an engag ing cha t c l i en t ) . I 'm not su re o f the d i f f i cu l ty requ i red here , though . I

suppose a l anguage tha t

cou ld do 90% o f what I want i dea l l y , but wou ld be much l e ss comp lex than

the

l anguage

tha t

cou ld

do

100%,

wou ld

be

my

pre fe r red

cho i ce .

Conc lus ion So the re you have i t .

I

need someth ing I

can use on Mac OS X, L inux and

ac ross the I n te rne t to make graph i ca l ( and occas iona l l y command l i ne , but I f i gu re i f

it

i n c red ib l y

can do the f o rmer , i t d i f f i cu l t

to

l ea rn ,

can do the l a t te r , ) apps . , i s hope fu l l y and

has

f ree ,

qua l i t y

deve lopment

env i ronments / comp i l e r s I can use . I can ' t exac t l y spend $300 on one j u s t to t ry out a l anguage . A good i n t ro book to gu ide me wi th the l anguage wou ld be grea t a l so . P lease en l i gh ten me wi th your f eedback ! Power Mac 6100 , Power Mac 8600 , PowerBook 1400 , eMac , i Book dua l USB, Mac min i Core Duo , MacBook 2 .2Ghz ( x2 ) Th i s

pos t

was ed i ted 2 t imes ,

l as t

on 2007 - 10 - 15 ,

13 Gamoe. :23 by

Edit reason: typo madra (Administrator) 2007-10-08, 22:32 #2 User since

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you seem to be in the position i was in a couple of years back. although primarily an artist and therefore into the graphical and design side of things, i'm also a lifelong inveterate tinkerer - someone who way back to my childhood would always be taking things apart to see how they worked. so i've always wanted to know what was going on behind the scenes with websites,

games

and

the

like.

by no stretch of the imagination would i describe myself as a professional programmer but, through a lot of pulling things apart and reading the odd tutorial here or hint there i've managed to elevate myself to the stage where i'd class myself as a semi-competent hobbyist and actually now earn a fair whack of my freelance income from programming these days [mostly for flash]. with the above as a disclaimer - here's a few random thoughts:

even be fo re you s ta r t . . . if

you ' re go ing to do prog ramming , you need to have an unders tand ing o f

maths .

i

d innae mean you need to be ab le to so lve quadra t i c equat i ons i n

your head [ o r even know what they are]! but you need to have bas i c h igh - schoo l

numeracy ;

numbers

yer

and

precedence ,

bas i cs

l i ke

square

roo ts ,

mul t i p l i ca t i on

and

squar ing ,

negat i ve

d iv i s ilon oadsetco. f

s i tua t i ons wi l l come up where you 've got a prob lem to so lve which i s easy to exp ress i n eng l i sh [ eg today " is a sunday?" ] but you ' l l need to be ab le to suss out how exac t l yyou wou ld work th i s out - which usua l l y i nvo lves some k ind o f mathemat i ca l shenan igans . i n tandem wi th the above - you need to have a l og i ca you l mind need . to be ab le to take a prob lem and break i t down i n to the sma l l es t poss ib le l og i ca l s teps and then prob lem so lve each o f those i nd i v idua ltos teps re fe.r back to the above theo re t i ca l ques t i on " i s today a sunday" you might come up wi th someth ing l i ke : ---

f i nd

the

f i rst

day

of

the

year

tha t

is

a

sunday

- - - wr i te a l oop which adds every seventh day a f te r tha t to a l i s t o f sundays ---

f i nd

out

what

day

of

the

year

[ ie .

1

-

- - - which

365]

today

is

i nvo lves . . .

------

f i nd

------

al l

the

add

months

al l

------

be fo re

the

the i r

add

cu r ren t

days

month

toge the r

cu r ren t

date

- - - l oop th rough l i s t o f sundays c rea ted ear l i e r and compare each one wi th the

number

for

our

cu r ren t

date

- - - i f the re ' s a match , today ' s a sunday - i f not , i t ' s not OK - tha t ' s a s i l l y i ne f f i c i en t examp le , but i t re f l ec t s the k ind o f mindse t have to

be ab le

to

get

i n to

when work ing on a programming pro jec t .

so assuming you pass those two tes t s , we come onto your ques t i on o f wh ich l anguage to go f o raga . in th i s i s j u s t my persona l tuppence wor th based on be ing

in

the

same

boat

as

yourse l f

a

f ew

years

back :

C - the grandaddy o f them a l l and the one a l l the exper t s te l l you to l ea rn f i r s t be fo re you l ea rn anyth ing i e lase lways . got a b i t p i ssed o f f wi th i t tha t .

was

l i ke

ask ing

someone

"what ' s

span i sh?" and them say ing"we l l ,

the

bes t

way to

go

about

l ea rn ing

you shou ld l ea rn l a t i n f i r s t ! " . i ' ve had a

f ew dabb les wi th C over the years and not f ound the go ing too the hard .

syn tax seems f a i r l y c lean to me, but qu i te f rank ly spend ing a l oad o f t ime i n

the te rm ina l cod ing s tu f f which on ly outpu ts othe r s tu f f to the te rm ina l as we l l

is

a

bit

PHP - l i ke yourse l f , th i s i s how i

of

a

yawn .

s ta r ted ; pu l l i ng othe r peop le ' s PHP sc r i

apar t and t ry ing ten ta t i ve ly to see i f i cou ld bu i ld my own s tu f f . persona l l y f ound PHP qu i te easy to p ick the up . way the l anguage f l ows seems f a i r l y l og i ca l

[ you can see the s im i l a r i t i e s back to C] i n.

the day when i

was

hack ing away at PHP you had to bu i ld most th ings by nowadays hand . [p robab ly as a resu l t o f d i rec t compet i t i on f rom ruby on ra i l s ] the re are coup le o f PHP f rameworks ava i l ab le , which wi l l bu i l d the ske le ton o f a web app f o r you and l e t you concen t ra te on tweak ing and cus tomis ing , ra the r than t r y ing to get the f ecke r to work i n the f i ri s' ve t pnot lace l. ooked too deep ly at any o f these f rameworks but you might want to check cake out as regards creating desktop apps using PHP - again i've no experience in this, but you might want to check out platypus, which claims to be able to produce desktop app GUIs wrapped around scripts in a variety of programming languages [perl, python, PHP, ruby, expect, TCL, appleccript] javascript - starting to come into its own now, with the advent of ajax. javascript also has a similar syntax to C and PHP, although i've always found it a bit less forgiving of errors and harder to debug than PHP. its use outside the web environment is a bit limited, although i've come across the odd bit of javascript in other things like flash movies and some desktop apps which do

web

stuff.

actionscript - you may not have thought of this one, or not see it as relevant but dinnae dismiss it out of hand. over the years flash has gone way beyond being a means to add boring annoying banner ads and pointless animation to websites and can be used to build some traditional app-like creations. actionscript has also changed beyond recognition and the syntax is now pretty similar to PHP and javascript [and by extension C]. again, with

ac t i onsc r ip t you can [ th rough f l a sh ] bu i ld someth ing qu ick l y and then work

on add ing sc r ip t i ng to i t and tweak ing i t , ra the r than spend ing a l l your t im get t i ng someth ing to run i n the f i r s t probab p lace . ly a good p lace to s ta r t i f you ' re th ink ing about t ry ing your hand at bu i l d ing a game o f some so r t . as rega rds c rea t ing desk top apps , f l a sh has bu i l t i n secur i t y which preven ts i t f rom wr i t i ng f i l e s to your compute r , but you can ove rcome these i n var i ous ways , so i n theory i t wou ld be poss ib le to produce a proper desk top app i n f l a sh /ac t i onsc r ip t . l i ngo -

f l a sh ' s s tab lemate d i rec to r has none o f the l im i ta t i ons o f f l a sh an

can be used ' ou t o f the box ' to c rea te desk top however apps . i

f i nd i t s

prog ramming l anguage l i ngo rea l l y con fus ing to workf owi r th some . reason i

seem to get a long bet te r wi th programming l anguages wh ich f o l l ow the C

t ype

convent i on

of

us ing

bracke ts

and

cu r l y

braces

to

group

th ings

toge the r . a l l the l anguages which c la im to use an ' eng l i sh - l i ke ' syn tax and are thus supposed to be eas ie r to l ea rn seem more t roub lesome f o r me. but ,

as

wi th

al l

these

th ings

YMMV.

app lesc r ip t - anothe r o f the cho i ces un ive rsa l l y recommended f o r beg inners

and [ as wi th l i ngo above ] tou ted f o r i t s ' eng l i sh - l i ke ' syn tax . as wi th l i ng jus t

cannae get my head round i t

at i a ldon l . 't

know what i t

app lesc r ip t , but any t ime i ' ve t r i ed to use i t , t ry ing to get the f eck in ' oh - so - s imp le ' er ro r s . on

the

p lus

s ide ,

wi th

is

about

i t ' s l i ke sw imming i n t rea

syn tax to ac tua l l y comp i le wi thou t

app lesc r ip t

s tud io ,

you

can

make f u l l y

f unc t i ona l OSX desk top apps us ing app lesc r ip t , so i f tha t k ind o f syn tax su i t s you , i t might be wor th a l ook . o f course the amin drawback wi th app lesc r ip t l i e s i n i t s comp le te l ack o f use fu lness outs ide o f OSX, so i f compat ib i l i t y

is

h igh

on

your

l ist

of

pr io r i t i e s ,

i t 's

c ross - p la t fo a

non - s ta r

ruby on ra i l s - you 've a l ready k inda ru led th i s onej uout s t thought but i i 'd ment ion i t

anyway , i f

on ly to vent a bi i'm t cu r ren t l y wres t l i ng wi th

l ea rn ing RoR and am f i nd ing i t l anguages wh ich i

tough goruby ing . i s

anothe r

of

those

am cons tan t l y read ing i s ' eng l i sh - l i ke ' and easy to l ea rn

but wh ich , aga in i f i nd to be a comp le te n igh tmare to get add rto i ghtha t. t

the f ac t you ' re

tha t the documenta t i on f o r

hav ing

wi th

RoR and

you ' l l

i n comprehens ib le so lu t i ons ! ] and i

RoR i s

abysma l [ l ook up a prob lem

f i nd

dozen

a

and

d innae b lame you f o r g iv ing i t

ber th . i 'm go ing to keep s lugg ing on wi th i t , cash i n a coup le o f he f ty tex tbooks and i beh ind a l l

con f l i c t i ng

the hype , but qu i te f rank ly ,

a wide

as i ' ve i nves ted a f a i r b i t

want to see i f

if

o f ten

i

knew i t

the re ' s anyth ing

was go ing to be th

d i f f i cu l t and f rus t ra t i ng back when i f i r s t heard o f RoR , i ' d not have bothe re

ob jec t i veC - th i s i s anothe r one i ' ve f a i l ed mise rab ly to get to i gr ips wi th dunno i f

the s i tua t i on ' s changed now but , back i n the ear l y days o f OSX i

made an abor t i ve at tempt to l ea rn ob jec t i veC and f ound [ as wi th ra i l s ] tha t the documenta t i on i n ex i s tence was no he lp at peop a l le l . e i the r seemed to want me to copy down verba t im b locks o f code they prov ided as examp les , wi thou t exp la in ing what each par t o f the code d id , or how the syn tax worked - or e l se assumed tha t i

was some k ind o f advanced prog rammer who was

sw i t ch ing to ob jec t i veC f rom anothe r l anguage and wou ld p i ck i t week

or

up i n a

two .

ac tua l l y th i s seems to be an a l l - too - common prob lem i ' ve f ound when t ry ing to l ea rn any o f the prog ramming l anguages i ' ve t r i ed over the theyears re . seems to be a mounta in o f documenta t i on and tu to r i a l s at the " th i s i s

a

number and th i s i s a mul t ip l i ca t i on s ign . . . " l eve l and a s im i l a r heap at th

advanced l eve l , but very l i t t l e good use fu l i n fo f o r someone who ' s k ind o f OK wi th

hack ing

and

l as t

about , but

not

but

wants

l eas t

to

[ and

l ea rn one

how you

to

do

d idnae

it

proper l y.

ment ion ] . . .

j ava - i ' ve never ac tua l l y t r i ed l ea rn ing j ava [ ye t ! - i 'm su re i t ' s on ly a m o f t ime

] but i f you ' re rea l l y keen on hav ing a c ross p la t fo rm se t o f sk i l l

and be ing ab le to bu i l d c ross - p la t fo rm apps , then th i s might be a good bet . you can o f course a l so bu i ld nat i ve OSX apps us ing j ava ione n xcode th ing . tha t ' s

put me o f f

l ea rn ing j ava t i l

now i s

tha t a lmos t wi thou t excep t i on

every j ava app i ' ve t r i ed on OSX has been ug ly as f eck and runthe l i ke sh i t . s i tua t i on *shou ld* be chang ing as OSX matu res and compute rs get f as te r , but somehow you can a lways s t i l l a lways

someth ing

' no t

qu i te

spo t a j ava app a mithe le re o f' sf . j u s t

r i gh t '

about

them. tha t sa id ,

one o f

my

f avour i te appsj b- i dwatcheris coded in java [its usefulness kind of excuses its java-ness

] and going back to your original idea of doing some kind of

web gallery app, there are a couple of those already, which are written in java

[probably

the

best

known

of

which

is

jalbum].

one other point in favour of java - there seem to be a lot of jobs about for java

programmers.

well, there's my 'brain dump' - decisions... decisions... eh? madra at work | madra at play This post was edited on 2007-10-08, 22:40 by madra. i5m 2007-10-12, 07:28 #3 since

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I don't think it matters what you start to learn with. Learning any language helps.

Just

pick

and

start

and

move

on.

I think I started with BASIC. Then PASCAL. A bit of Fortran. Some Visual Basic.

Applescript.

All

much

the

same

in

a

way.

I personally like Ruby because it's cooler than Python, but there are really rather similar. Some interesting reading on the ruby vs python thing. With ruby

you

can

almost

guess

the

commands.

Whatever you learn from one language will be useful for another language. And you'll always have to program in different languages anyway depending on what you are working with / aiming to do. There is no right answer Sometimes up, sometimes down --> Gamoe

2007-10-15, 18:40 #4

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In reply to post #2

I

I 'm go ing wi th Py thon . Quote by madra : you seem to be i n the pos i t i on i

was i n a coup le o f years a l though back .

pr imar i l y an ar t i s t and the re fo re i n to the graph i ca l and des ign s ide o f th ing i 'm a l so a l i f e l ong i nve te ra te t i nke re r

-

someone who way back to

my

ch i l dhood wou ld a lways be tak ing th ings apar t to see how they worked . so i ' ve a lways wanted to know what was go ing on beh ind the scenes wi th webs i tes ,

games

and

the

by no s t re tch o f the imag ina t i on wou ld i

l i ke .

desc r ibe myse l f as a pro fess iona l

prog rammer but , th rough a l o t o f pu l l i ng th ings apar t and read ing the odd tu to r i a l here or h in t the re i ' ve managed to e leva te myse l f to the s tage where i ' d c lass myse l f as a semi - competen t hobby i s t and ac tua l l y now earn a f a i r whack o f my f ree lance i n come f rom prog ramming these days [mos t l y f o r f l a sh ] . wi th

the

above

as

a

d i sc l a imer

-

here ' s

a

f ew

random

thoughts :

even be fo re you s ta r t . . . if

you ' re go ing to do prog ramming , you need to have an unders tand ing o f

maths .

i

d innae mean you need to be ab le to so lve quadra t i c equat i ons i n

your head [ o r even know what they are]! but you need to have bas i c h igh - schoo l

numeracy ;

numbers

yer

and

bas i cs

precedence , l i ke

square

mul t i p l i ca t i on

roo ts , and

squar ing ,

negat i ve

d iv i s ilon oadsetco. f

s i tua t i ons wi l l come up where you 've got a prob lem to so lve which i s easy to exp ress i n eng l i sh [ eg today " is a sunday?" ] but you ' l l need to be ab le to suss out how exac t l yyou wou ld work th i s out - which usua l l y i nvo lves some k ind o f mathemat i ca l shenan igans . i n tandem wi th the above - you need to have a l og i ca you l mind need . to be ab le to take a prob lem and break i t down i n to the sma l l es t poss ib le l og i ca l s teps and then prob lem so lve each o f those i nd i v idua ltos teps re fe.r back to the above theo re t i ca l ques t i on " i s today a sunday" you might come up wi th someth ing l i ke : I

am not par t i cu la r l y mathemat i ca l l y i nc l i ned ,

c lass .

and i n

But I ' ve f ound tha t the c lass room s i tua t i on i s

f ac t ,

I

l oa the Math

qu i te d i f f e ren t f ro

s i t t i ng i n f ron t o f your compute r . I usua l l y have some i dea o f how to so lve a

prob lem mathemat i ca l l y , so I need . I n f ac t ,

I

can usua l l y j u s t l ook up the i n fo or f o rmu la I

have grea t respec t f o r mathemat i cs , and I ' ve f ound some

mathemat i ca l top i cs i n te res t i ng . I t ' s j u s t the prac t i ce and repe t i t i on needed to re ta in the necessa ry deta i l s to use i t l og i ca l So , I

th ink ing

is

tha t I

an

rea l l y d i s l i ke . I

i s sue

for

don ' t

me.

don ' t th ink I shou ld l e t th i s preven t me f rom go ing i n to programming .

I t ' s a lmos t as i f

I

know too much about prog ramming not to know how to

proper l y prog ram. I ' d say my main i n te res t i s probab ly use r i n te r face des ign , so I 'm hop ing to be ab le to make i t

at l eas t ' t i l l

p i c tu re ( read a loud tha t

cou ld be bad ly mis in te rp re ted ,

l as t

par t

the GUI s tu f f gets i n huh? ) .

BTW madra , thanks f o r the deta i l ed pos t . Quote by madra : ---

f i nd

the

f i rst

day

of

the

year

tha t

is

a

sunday

- - - wr i te a l oop which adds every seventh day a f te r tha t to a l i s t o f sundays ---

f i nd

out

what

day

of

the

year

[ ie .

1

-

- - - which ------

365]

today

is

i nvo lves . . . f i nd

------

al l

the

add

------

al l

months

be fo re

the

the i r

add

cu r ren t

days

month

toge the r

cu r ren t

date

- - - l oop th rough l i s t o f sundays c rea ted ear l i e r and compare each one wi th the

number

for

our

cu r ren t

date

- - - i f the re ' s a match , today ' s a sunday - i f not , i t ' s not Or I cou ld j u s t pu l l i t f rom the date s t r i ng i n the sys tem c lock . Quote by madra : one th ing tha t ' s

put me o f f

l ea rn ing j ava t i l

now i s

tha t a lmos t wi thou t

excep t i on , every j ava app i ' ve t r i ed on OSX has been ug ly as f eck and run l i ke sh i tthe . s i tua t i on *shou ld* be chang ing as OSX matu res and compute rs get f as te r ,

but somehow you can a lways s t i l l

spo t a j ava app a mi le o f f .

the re ' s j u s t a lways someth ing ' no t qu i te r i gh t ' about them. Agree wi th you the re 100%. That ' s why I d idn ' t even ment ion J ava . Quote by i 5m:

I don ' t th ink i t mat te rs what you s ta r t to l ea rn wi th . Lea rn ing any l anguage

he lps . J u s t p i ck and s ta r t and move on . I can apprec ia te the i dea beh ind tha t ; I can be qu i te i ndec i s i ve somet imes . . . th ink . But , se r i ous l y , I do cons ide r th i s an impor tan t dec i s i on ! Quote by i 5m: I

persona l l y l i ke Ruby becausecooler i t ' s than Python, but there are really

rather similar. Some interesting reading on the ruby vs python thing. With ruby you can almost guess the commands. Ruby definitely seems like the up-and-coming language. But, Python is not anywhere near dead, is faster and seems a bit more mature than Ruby at this point. Besides that, and perhaps most importantly, I already know a project I'd like to take a look at written in Python-- the Sugar GUI. Python even

has

the

original

Benevolent

Dictator.

BTW i5m, that book you linked me to.... I read through some of the examples and explanations, and it looks like a good starting book, but the author went way overboard with the jokes, cartoons and off-topic material throughout. And I think he's a little nutty, too. madra (Administrator) 2007-10-15, 19:30 #5 User title: chairman of the bored since

Feb

2006

·

2318

posts

·

Location:

the

intarweb

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Quote by Gamoe: ...BTW i5m, that book you linked me to.... I read through some of the examples and explanations, and it looks like a good starting book, but the author went way overboard with the jokes, cartoons and off-topic material throughout. And I think he's a little nutty, too... i think i can safely assume without checking the link, that the book is the legendary

'why's

poignant

guide...'

i quite enjoyed it myself. although he does have a tendency to waffle a bit, it's certainly more entertaining a read than most programming manuals out there.

i 5m 2007 - 10 - 16 , 04 :32 #6 since Feb 2006 · 726 posts · Location: Super Up North,

UK

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In reply to post #4 python is a good choice. What are you going to program first? Sometimes up, sometimes down --> Gamoe since

2007-10-16, 12:41 #7

Feb

2006

·

1337

posts

User title: Mac user since 1994 ·

Location:

Mars

Colony

I

Group memberships: co-owner, hardcore appletalker, scrapbook monkey Show profile ·

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Quote by i5m: python is a good choice. What are you going to program first? I have an idea for an educational numerical base converter for a small project. But, for starters I'm going to try to follow some kind of tutorial. I already downloaded and printed the Python Tutorial from the main site, written by Python's creator. I might also check out the newest version of Learning Python, just released this month (coincidence or part of the cosmic plan??). I think I'm going to do most learning on my Linux box, seeing as Ubuntu has the latest up-to-date Python version, where Apple is a little bit behind. Still, Leopard should bring the latest version, and it looks like switching between Linux and Mac OS X for Python programming should be a breeze

thanks

to

the

UNIX-y

underpinnings

both

share.

Also, a user on a another forum gave me this most interesting link, and it looks like Apple is continuing to improve its support for Python and other popular languages: Quote by Apple: Scripting

Bridge.

Mac OS X is now the ideal platform for all kinds of script-based development. Ruby 1.8.6 and Python 2.5 are both first-class languages for Mac development, thanks to Cocoa bridges, Xcode and Interface Builder support, DTrace monitoring, and Framework builds — plus AppleEvent

b ind ings v ia the new Scr ip t i ng Br idge . Leopard i s a l so the premie r p la t fo rm f o r Ruby on Ra i l s deve lopment ,

thanks to Ra i l s ,

Mongre l ,

and Cap i s t rano

bund l i ng . That shou ld be good news f o r those Ruby use rs out the re , too . . . ht tp : / /www.app le ta l ke r . com/ fo rum/ index .php? req=th read& id=1018