Pray Through Mary And Saints

Pray through Mary and Saints Dear Friends, Recently I was involved in an email debate with a group who were telling that catholics are wrong if they pray to their Mary and Saints. I am giving here all my quotes in the bible(both old and new testaments) which was used in the debate to tell them, that God accepts prayer through Mary and Saints. Infact these people were smart to say, where in the Bible God has said to pray through other people and did any prophets, saints, apostles prayed for others. Please do read below, incase if there is a situation like this, so we catholics can tell what truth is. Below are some of the biblical verses in old testament where the prophets prayed for their people, kings and others. God himself says to Job's friend that Job will intercede for you. Isaiah 62:6 clearly says that, God has set intercessors for us. I am giving some quotes from old testaments where prophets/saints prayed for others: In intercessory prayer, we follow the Old Testament priestly function and the New Testament pattern of Jesus - standing before God and between a righteous God and sinful man. In order to be effective standing "between" we must first stand "before" God to develop the intimacy necessary to fulfill this role. Numbers 14 is one of the greatest accounts of intercessory prayer recorded in the Bible. Moses was able to stand between God and sinful man because he had stood "before" Him and had developed intimacy of communication. Numbers 12:8 records that God spoke with Moses as friend to friend and not through visions and dreams as He did with other prophets. After the children of Israel made a golden calf to worship, Moses interceded for the people and prayed,“Yet now if you will only forgive their sin...” Exodus 32:32. God told Job's friends to have Job intercede for them in prayer. God said, “...my servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer on your behalf.” Job 42:8.

“Then when Job prayed for his friends, the Lord restored his wealth and happiness...” Job 42:10. Daniel also interceded for his people.“Even while I was praying and confessing my sins and the sins of my people.” Daniel 9:20. “...I have set intercessors on your walls who shall cry to God all day and all night for the fulfillment of His promise.” Isaiah 62:6. The following Biblical verses in old testament says, how the people of God,prophets prayed for their people. 1. Genesis 18:22-23 (Abraham) 2. Daniel 9:1-20 3. Job 42:8 4. Jeremiah 29:7 5. 1 Sam 12:23 6. Psalm 122:6 (Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem) The Bible has many cases of people standing up for others before God. The most striking example is Abraham. He took the initiative to step forward before God on behalf of his neighbors in Sodom and its area. He cared enough to do it, even though he knew how thoroughly wicked Sodom was, and knew how furious God was about it (which explains why he was so careful in speaking to God about it). Moses also stepped in when God was angry, standing in the gap in the most literal sense : offering his own life for that of his nation. (Thankfully, God didn't take him up on the offer.) It was part of the role of a prophet not just to speak what God speaks, but to speak with God for the people of Israel. A fine example is the exchange between the prophet Habakkuk and God, where the prophet asks for God to act against injustice, but God replies about a coming doom. Isaiah prayed with King Hezekiah to save the nation from defeat and destruction at the hands of Assyria, and the armies were suddenly turned back (see Isaiah ch. 3639).

The master builder Nehemiah prayed to God to bring about the rebuilding of Jerusalem and of his people. As they took their concerns to God, the key motivation behind these giants of faith was compassion. They loved the people, the culture, the faith with a love like God's love, and it burned in them so much that they dared to take on God on their behalf. Unlike the gods of the lore of most other lands, this God did not zap them with lightning or turn them into halfbeasts. God listened to their cries -- not by ignoring the wrongdoings which got the divine wrath kindled in the first place, but by saving at least some of the people and bringing them back to where they belonged. I found one more incident where a dead prophet/saint brought back a dead man alive. Ofcourse, it is God who does that, but since the people found this prophet/saint to be a worthy man of God, God did miracles through these prophets so that the humans would come to HIM through the miracles HE is performing through these holy people: 2 Kings 13:21 And some that were burying a man, saw the rovers, and cast the body into the sepulchre of Eliseus. And when it had touched the bones of Eliseus, the man came to life and stood upon his feet. Comment: One day some people who were burying a man saw one of these raiding parties. So they quickly put the man into Elisha's tomb. But when the body touched Elisha's bones, the man came back to life and stood up. Eliseus (ELISHA; Hebrew ’lysh‘, God is salvation). A Prophet of Israel. After learning, on Mount Horeb, that Eliseus, the son of Saphat, had been selected by God as his successor in the prophetic office, Elias set out to make known the Divine will. Miracles were happening through prophets/saints even before the catholic church was established

by one true loving GOD Jesus Christ.

Who said dead saints cannot hear our prayers? Well, as we have seen taught in the Scriptures, God is not the God of the "dead" saints, but of the LIVING saints. And Jesus shows us in Scripture departed saints CAN hear our prayers when He converses with the "deceased" Moses and Elijah during His Transfiguation. (Mt. 17:3; Mk. 9:4; Lk. 9:30) Although Elijah was taken up, Moses' body had been dead and buried, and yet he heard Jesus. St. Paul tells us we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses. (Heb. 12:1) He also tells us that we do not come to God alone, but also to "His Family" (the heavenly Jerusalem of His angels and saints). (Heb. 12:22-24) We are surrounded by saints in Heaven who are alive and watching us. According to the Scriptures, they are aware of our needs and our prayers to them and they pray for us: "And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;..." (Rev. 5:8) "And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hands of the angel before God." (Rev. 8:3-4)

Who said saints are dead? Okay, where in Scripture does it say the saints in Heaven are dead? If the saints in Heaven are dead, this would make God "the God of the DEAD." But instead, Jesus tells us the very opposite: "But the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Issac and the God of Jacob. Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living; for all live to him." (Lk. 20:36-38) Do we come only to God or do we also come to the assembly of Saints in heaven as well?

Hebrews 12:22 But YE ARE COME UNTO mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 12:23 To the general assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, AND TO THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT, 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel. Paul says yes.

He says we come directly not only to God, but to an assembly of Saints in heaven (The just men made perfect) exactly in the context of Jesus being the mediator!. Are we supposed to ignore them? The Bible says no!! Jesus is indeed the one and unique mediator. However, it is indeed him as a mediator, that makes all other mediation possible. After all, Jesus is the supreme judge (John 5:27, 9:39; Rom. 14:10; 2 Cor. 5:10; 2 Tim. 4:1), yet Christians are called to share in Christ’s judgeship. They will be judges in heaven, even judging the angels (Mt. 19:28; Luke 22:30; 1 Cor. 6:2-3). Jesus is the king of the universe (Mk. 15:32; 1 Tim. 1:17, 6:15, Rev. 15:3, 17:14, 19:16), but he shares his kingship with all Christians, who in heaven will wear crowns, sit on thrones, and reign as kings alongside Jesus (Rev. 4:4, 10) – but will always be subordinate to him. Notice the promises that God makes (Rev. 3:21): I will give the victor the right to sit with me on my throne as I myself first won the victory and sit with my Father on his throne.Jesus is the one and only shepherd of the flock the Chruch (John 10:16), yet in a subordinate way he shares his shepherdhood in a subordinate way with others, beginning with Peter (John 21:15-17) and extends it later to others (Eph. 4:11).Pat Madrid, Any Friend of God is a Friend of Mine , Basilica Press, 1996, pages 58, 59. Thus, in the same way that Christ is unique and the source of all these things, he still uses people to in a subordinate way to share in his work.

Do the saints pray in heaven? The book of Revelation tells us: Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the PRAYERS OF SAINTS. Revelation 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer [it] with THE PRAYERS OF ALL SAINTS upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, [which came] with the PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. Obviously they do pray, and as we saw in Hebrews we come to these saints, who we see intercede for us.

Is there more evidence that the Saints are aware of what is going on at earth, and do they ask for justice?: Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Revelation 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What [city is] like unto this great city! 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. 18:20 Rejoice over her, [thou] heaven, and [ye] holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

So we have further evidence that the Saints in heaven are aware of what is going on in earth, and they specifically pray for things that go on in earth. We must remember that Saints in heaven are not bound by time and space as we are. In eternity, 1 John 3:2 tells us: Beloved, we are God's children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. There is only one body, the Church. The church is not one church in heaven as opposed to one church on earth. The one church is intimately connected with each other (remember the image of the vine and the branches in John 15). And those in heaven are just men made perfect. As the body is called to love each other, are the saints in heaven, even though they are aware of what is going on in earth, according to scripture just given, careless as to what is going on in the lives of those on earth? Of course not!!! Christ calls perfected people to love the rest of the body. I can be confident that they will intercede for those on earth. What does it profit? James explains: James 5:16 “The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.” Those in heaven are perfectly righteous, and their prayers are efficacious. How can one ignore them? Why can’t I just say, I don’t need those Saints in heaven to pray for us, I can go directly to God. (BTW, Catholics also do pray directly to God. And They Know Jesus Christ is the Lord of All) Why can’t I say I really don’t need the rest of the Church? What does Paul say? 1 Cor. 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many. 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 12:17 If the whole body [were] an eye, where [were] the hearing? If the whole [were] hearing, where [were] the smelling? 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 12:19 And if they were all one member, where [were] the body? 12:20 But now [are they] many members, yet but one body. 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the

hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. As an eye, I cannot say to the hand, I do not need you. However, those who are against praying to the saints, do exactly that by neglecting the rest of the body of Christ.

To explain more about me in the knowledge of God, i am a dumb and not worthy to say the word of God. But i do belong to the government of God which is the catholic church established by the Lord which holds full gospel truth and way to salvation. I am defending the truth the Lord set in his government which is the catholic church and the Holy Spirit guides it and protects it and the fires of hell wouldn't prevail it. This is the parable our Lord itself said and it is in Bible too. This is the parable of lazarus and richman. Here the richman asks(which is a prayer/request) to Lazarus who is in heaven and the richman is in hell. Doesn't this parable explain that our prayers through Mary and Saints wouldn'y be heard? One of the most important activities for a Catholic is prayer. Without it there can be no true spiritual life. Through personal prayer and the communal prayer of the Church, especially the Mass, we worship and praise God, we express sorrow for our sins, and we intercede on behalf of others (1 Tim. 2:14). Through prayer we grow in our relationship with Christ and with members of God's family (CCC 2663-2696). This family includes all members of the Church, whether on earth, in heaven, or in purgatory. Since Jesus has only one body, and since death has no power to separate us from Christ (Rom. 8:3-8), Christians who are in heaven or who, before entering heaven, are being purified in purgatory by God's love (1 Cor.

3:12-15) are still part of the Body of Christ (CCC 962). Jesus said the second greatest commandment is to "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matt. 22:39). Those in heaven love us more intensely than they ever could have loved us while on earth. They pray for us constantly (Rev. 5:8), and their prayers are powerful (Jas. 5:16, CCC 956, 2683, 2692). Our prayers to the saints in heaven, asking for their prayers for us, and their intercession with the Father do not undermine Christ's role as sole Mediator (1 Tim. 2:5). In asking saints in heaven to pray for us we follow Paul's instructions: "I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for everyone," for "this is good and pleasing to God our Savior" (1 Tim. 2:1-4). All members of the Body of Christ are called to help one another through prayer (CCC 2647). Mary's prayers are especially effective on our behalf because of her relationship with her Son (John 2:1-11). God gave Mary a special role (CCC 490-511, 963 975). He saved her from all sin (Luke 1:28, 47), made her uniquely blessed among all women (Luke 1:42), and made her a model for all Christians (Luke 1:48). At the end of her life he took her, body and soul, into heaven�an image of our own resurrection at the end of the world (Rev. 12:1-2). When Catholics pray to Mary and the other saints in Heaven they are not bypassing Christ, whom they acknowledge as the sole Mediator between God and man. They are going to Christ through Mary and the other saints. They are asking Mary and other saints to intercede for them before the throne of Christ in Heaven. "For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much." (James 5:16). How much more availing is the unceasing prayer of the sinless Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ! St. Paul asked his fellow Christians to intercede

for him: "Brethren, pray for us." (2 Thess. 3:1). And again: "I beseech you therefore, brethren, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and by the charity of the Holy Ghost, that you help me in your prayers for me to God . . ." (Rom. 15:30). Christ must particularly approve of our going to Him through Mary, His Blessed Mother, because He chose to come to us through her. And at Cana, He performed His first miracle after a word from His Mother. John 2:2-11). It is clear in Sacred Scripture that the saints in Heaven will intercede for us before the throne of Christ if they are petitioned in prayer (Apoc. or Rev. 8:3-4), and it is clear in the records of primitive Christianity that the first Christians eagerly sought their intercession. Wrote St. John Chrysostom in the fourth century: "When thou perceivest that God is chastening thee, fly not to His enemies, but to His friends, the martyrs, the saints, and those who were pleasing to Him, and who have great power." If the saints have such power with God, how much more His own Mother. To pray means to ask, not to worship. Also, we do not pray to the saints instead of God. We pray to God and ask that the saints pray for and with us. Are we not to "bear one another's burdens" (Galatians 6:2), and to "pray for one another" (James 5:16)? Were we not "all baptized into one body" (1 Corinthians 12:13)? Are not the saints in heaven still members of that body? We know that "the prayer of a righteous person has great power" (James 5:16). Who could be more righteous or pray more fervently than those already perfected and in the Lord's presence? We know that they care for us, "There will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents" (Luke 15:7). And finally we see that they present our prayers along with their own to Jesus: "The four living creatures and the twenty four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Revelation 5:8). Also, "And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne. And the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Revelation 8:3-4). Note that incense represents our prayers, and that the angels and elders in heaven present our prayers to God.

In Matthew 18:10 we find, "See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven." What do you suppose the little ones' angels would be doing on their behalf before God? Praying for them is the only logical answer. Demonstrating early Christian belief, Origen wrote in the year 233, "But not the High Priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels…as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep" (On Prayer 11). Mary receives special honor because she, who once cared for the physical body of Christ, now cares, through her intercession, for the mystical body of Christ (the Church). Devotion to Mary differs, just as devotion to family differs, from devotion to God. In no way does it imply equality with God. Even the Protestant reformers saw this as being consistent with Scripture. Martin Luther wrote in a prologue to the Magnificat, "May the tender mother of God herself procure for me the Spirit of wisdom profitably and thoroughly to expound this song of hers." John Calvin, working on his "Institutes of the Christian Religion," wrote, "We cannot celebrate the blessings given us in Christ without commemorating at the same time how high an honor God has granted to Mary when he chose to make her the mother of his only Son." Ulrich Zwingli stated, "The more honor and love for Christ, the more also the esteem and honor for Mary."

There are many verses we can find in both old testament and new testament, where intercessory prayers are offered. Well, now we verily should agree that God himself has set intercessors for us and thats what the true one holy catholic apostolic church do believe in praying to saints. Also God has spoken through HIS chosen people and have revealed many secrets and truth through them. HE could

have assembled all of us and speak through heaven. Similarly HE does hears the prayers asked by saints and other holy people. This is a common sense. Have a nice day! Kind Regards, Henson