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Hearing That is three days he had down that I was not at work. There was eight days we go to golf outings that are for benefits for other locals, for cancer, on and on. That is

Hearing

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fucking card up.

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THE CHAIRMAN: The next time you use that language you are done

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testifying.

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won't do it again. I told them I would rip their

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cards up.

another eight days. That is other days

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he said I wasn't at work.

I guess he thought that was a mandatory day since his paperwork is so perfect that it has it was a Saturday. I knocked 21 days off of his 36 days down in 20 minutes.

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No phone records were ever available to me, ever.

I had 48 hours to make a decision or possibly have other criminal things brought against me and that is why I

resigned. They were going to come after my

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union book, prosecute me for maybe, whatever you call it, theft of services, whatever that bogus bull crap is.

That is baloney. I was at that

24

the office everyday at 5:30 and if I

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MR. KENNEDY: I understand. I

You can ask anybody in here that I haven't said it to, that I will personally rip their cards up if I caught them playing games.

They can reach me Saturdays, Sundays, holidays, in a restaurant, sitting down at a McDonald's. I was never, never not to be found.

That is all I have to say. THE CHAIRMAN: Fred, hold it. You had indicated earlier that you

were waiting for some paperwork. Did you have something you wanted to enter in?

MR. KENNEDY: That thing from Mr. Garcia that he wanted Callahan out

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Hearing left at 12:00, you add that up. That is 6- 1/2 hours in that office or out in the field hitting jobs. I am in the middle of a really nasty, I am ashamed to say it, divorce

with my wife. Yes, I had problems at home. Yes, I have gone home early. Did I ever neglect my local? Never. Did I ever neglect a man in this goddamn room? Never. THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. MR. KENNEDY: I never neglected my position or jeopardized the membership or anything, integrity of any kind of this local or anything to do with this

district council to embarrass anybody. I have always been an upstanding guy and I live by my integrity. My son is in this room. I raised

him to be the same way. Everybody in this room knows exactly how I feel about taking cash. Don't play with me, I will rip your

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Hearing

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of here. Callahan is on a witch hunt.

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THE CHAIRMAN: It is my understanding that you were not fired, that you resigned your position after

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confronted with the evidence that was

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brought forward through the

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investigation by Mr. Callahan.

Is that correct?

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MR. KENNEDY: That is correct,

Mr. Draper.

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THE CHAIRMAN: So you weren't terminated; you actually resigned your

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position?

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MR. KENNEDY: No way in this world

I could afford to fight this district legally or monetarily, never in my entire life.

council

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I cannot afford to lose my union card.

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is that all of the allegations that were brought forward about you were just not

THE CHAIRMAN: What you are saying

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correct but you were intimidated; is

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that what you are saying?

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that the bear fact of it are if I am going to have my union card held over my

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head then I am going -- if I am going to have some kind of proceedings brought against me as a member, I have two years

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to retire. I need to go back to work.

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THE CHAIRMAN: Further, my understanding is that you entered in, either through councilor by yourself, to a termination agreement which had a confidentiality clause; is that correct. MR. KENNEDY: That is correct. THE CHAIRMAN: By you testifying

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here today are you saying that as far as you are concerned that the confidentiality in that resignation is no longer in effect?

position as saying you were in some way -MR. KENNEDY: As a man under my own integrity. THE CHAIRMAN: Were you in some

way intimidated? You want to represent a fact that you were intimidated? MR. KENNEDY: I didn't say that. THE CHAIRMAN: Or pressured? MR. KENNEDY: I am saying no way financially or legally or do I have the smarts to fight -THE CHAIRMAN: My question to you again is: Are you comfortable with releasing your position?

MR. KENNEDY: No, I am not. THE CHAIRMAN: You want the confidentiality clause to stay in

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MR. KENNEDY: Not at alL.

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I thought I was invited by Mr.

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say that or I will probably be sued,

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right. THE CHAIRMAN: I am just asking

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McCarron, that I should come here. THE CHAIRMAN: You can come here and you can testify but my question is,

I mean, I have not seen or had -- been

effect? MR. KENNEDY: I mentioned I better

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Hearing privileged as this committee hasn't to your voluntary resignation which contained a confidentiality clause that

you insisted upon. MR. KENNEDY: I insisted upon a

confidentiality clause? THE CHAIRMAN: Both parties. MR. KENNEDY: I signed it under

duress. THE CHAIRMAN: My question is: Is

it your desire based on your testimony that you want to make that termination

clause or that separation clause of which you resigned part of this record. MR. KENNEDY: I am not an attorney

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so I don't think I understand what you

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are asking me. THE CHAIRMAN: You signed a confidentiality clause as did the

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counciL. MR. KENNEDY: Yes, they did.

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THE CHAIRMAN: My question to you is: You are here defending your

regional council or the district

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Hearing you because we don't have it. MR. KENNEDY: I am asking you

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could I be sued?

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THE CHAIRMAN: I am not going to sue you. I asked you a question.

Do you want to come here -MR. KENNEDY: I am coming here for

one reason, because of my honor. I am an honorable person. That is all. THE CHAIRMAN: See, what we are doing is we are dealing with what you claim as to be a representation of the days that were presented that you missed. You are here to represent to this committee that there was justification

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for leaving 109 days early out of 166, there was 36 days unaccounted for of

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which you represent you can account for.

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That is the stuff that I have in effect. When that evidence was brought

forward to you you were given an opportunity to resign.

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agreement of resignation but you signed

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it.

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It contained a confidentiality agreement of which you don't want

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I don't know what is in that

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Hearing

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business agents or the leadership of the

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local has been very helpful to me, all this time. I made my living and I can say that is the only local I worked all my

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breached today?

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MR. KENNEDY: Right. THE CHAIRMAN: That is your business, your prerogative. I am just saying that I don't know what is in that.

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It could have something that would be more relevant to this or your defense or maybe not to your defense and you are saying that you don't want to release that agreement to there so what you are saying is that you have signed it, you

will honor it and that is the way it is. MR. KENNEDY: I guess that is the way I have to do it, sir. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your

Hearing All I can say is that since I jOined this local union all of the

life and they have been very supportive, very helpful all the time.

Every time I call they always reach you on a cell phone or call me back.

So I can say that I hope this local will continue here in Manhattan, in New York especially in the east side, sir.

That is all I wanted to say. Thank you very much.

20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much 21 for your testimony. 22 Lou Cacioppo. 23 LOUIS CACIOPPO, called as a witness,

testimony. MR. KENNEDY: Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Miguel, are you

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having been duly sworn, testified as follows:

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Hearing

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here?

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MIGUEL CUENCA, called as a witness, haVing

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been duly sworn, testified as follows: MR. CUENCA: Mr. Chairman -THE CHAIRMAN: Are you a -- you are a member of lS7? MR. CUENCA: Yes, sir. Absolutely. THE CHAIRMAN: You don't hold any

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Hearing THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon. Are you a member of lS7? MR. CACIOPPO: Yes, I am. THE CHAIRMAN: Were you an offcer of the local union? MR. CACIOPPO: No, I am not. THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead and proceed with your testimony. MR. CACIOPPO: I have been in the

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local for seven years. It has always been a brotherhood taking care of each other.

1

offices here? MR. CUENCA: No, sir. THE CHAIRMAN: This is a hearing. You can refrain from the applause. You

can talk to anybody outside but we are here to get information.

It is important we get everyhing down so let's keep it that way. Go ahead. MR. CUENCA: All I wanted to say

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is that I believe I have been in this country for 30 years. I have been working as a carpenter for 24 years, all

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then later on 157.

of that with local 257 originally and

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Any time, like you said, you call

the hall, they are there. You call them on your days off,

they were there. And you are talking about Freddie being in Puerto Rico. I aCCidentally

called him because I was having a problem on the job. He was in Puerto

Rico. He said, call Danny. Danny took care of it. He might have been off on vacation

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what day of the week.

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You are talking brotherhood and all of this. I am getting a bad taste in my mouth just before the holidays they got to pull this. Take care of it later on.

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We lost our Christmas part; is

that fair? You know, to make them

resign immediately like that is baloney.

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Let them defend themselves for a while. As long as I have been in the union Mr. Forde has been in court and he

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is still getting paid. Okay? What is that? Why is that fair?

Is that fair? Does it sound right? Let these men defend themselves. You don't say all right, you got to sign

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the paper now.

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That is not right. Let them

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defend themselves.

Come up with all this stuff. I have been here in seven years. He has

Hearing you answer the phone outside your local and take care of business you are still

taking care of business no matter where you are. He doesn't have to be in the

offce. THE CHAIRMAN: Brother, so you understand something, the responsibility of an agent is what is designed in his

work duties. The area of responsibility of where he is supposed to be is in his

work duties.

So you are not going to sit here and try to convince this committee that an agent's responsibility is wherever he wants to be in the United States or Puerto Rico or the Bahamas and as long as he has a cell phone it is okay even though he has an area of responsibility,

even though he was supposed to make out a weekly report and did not or make out a weekly report and falsified it, all of

those things are acceptable to you but

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Hearing been in court seven years; still going,

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Hearing

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they may not be acceptable to other

THE CHAIRMAN: Brother, have you seen the confidentiality agreement that

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they signed?

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So you understand, there is more than one issue here that we are dealing with. Whether he is available by phone, that is Well and good, but is he available by phone in an area in which he is supposed to be servicing his

still gets a paycheck.

MR. CACIOPPO: No, I have not. THE CHAIRMAN: Then you are representing something that you know

nothing about. You do not have a clue what is in

that agreement. MR. CACIOPPO: You are absolutely

right, but give them time to come up with it; not you got to sign this in 48 hours. I understand what you are saying, but what is fair is fair. All right? But any time you need these people you could call them and you are saying

after hours, okay. 1:00 he is not there. Where was he?

Maybe he was off somewhere else taking care of business.

If you are not in your local and

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people.

membership. That is a responsibility he has to the organization. So I want you to understand that.

That because you determined -because you determine as long as he is available by phone he could be anywhere

does not necessarily constitute the fact that he is doing his job where and when he is supposed to do it. MR. CACIOPPO: I understand exactly what you are saying but the job

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There is no recourse saying this couldn't be taken care of because he

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wasn't in his jurisdiction. It was

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Do you understand what I am saying?

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Hearing

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taken care of. THE CHAIRMAN: Do you have anything else to testify to? MR. CACIOPPO: No, I do not. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very

much. James Corrigan.

Have you already testified? MR. CORRIGAN: Yes, I have. THE CHAIRMAN: If we have time I

already told one of our brothers that I want to get to those folks who haven't had a chance to testify.

If there is time left at the end we will get back to you. MR. CORRIGAN: I would just like to add to my testimony to help clarify the theory that there is a railroading

going on. THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. Sit

Hearing the apprenticeship, leave the union and do something else, but I decided to give

it one more shot and I put my name on the out-of-work list and waited and waited and shaping jobs didn't seem to help. The longer I waited, the worse I

felt, so I went into the local and asked the BAs to help me get a job.

That very afternoon I was called and I was back working the next day. It made a huge difference that they were willing to do that for me. I am still here and I am still in the union so I think that their effort

really helped me a lot.

That is all I have to say. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for

20

coming down.

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Ken, either B-R-A-U, Brauman. Ken, are you here? Brauman or Rauman. Are you here, Ken?

24

Are you Ken? Let's have some order.

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down. I want to be fair to everybody.

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MR. CORRIGAN: I understand. That is why I went out in the hall and put my name back on the list again. THE CHAIRMAN: I am sorry.

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6 7 I didn't recognize the name. 8 Emily Huffman. 9 EMILY HUFFMAN, called as a witness, having 10 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 11 MS. HUFFMAN: I just graduated 12 my -13 THE CHAIRMAN: Emily, one moment. 14 Are you a member of lS7? 15 MS. HUFFMAN: Yes, I am. 16 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you an officer 17 or were you an officer of the local? ia MS. HUFFMAN: No. 19 THE CHAIRMAN: I need you to put

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Hearing

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the mic real close. MS. HUFFMAN: I just finished my

apprenticeship requirements so I am a brand new mechanic, but three years ago I thought I wanted to get out of this field entirely and I was going to drop

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Hearing MR. BLUHM: I don't wish to testify at this time.

I may later. THE CHAIRMAN: Patrick Glynn, G-L-Y-N-N.

Do you want to come forward

8 please? 9 PATRICK GLYNN, called as a witness, haVing 10 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. 12 Are you a member of the local? 13 MR. GLYNN: Yes, I am. 14 THE CHAIRMAN: An offcer? 15 MR. GLYNN: No. I am not. 16 THE CHAIRMAN: Can we have a 17 little order?

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MR. GLYNN: I have been a member for 13 years.

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I have worked and had a lot of

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shop stewards come up to me and rave

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about going down to the business agents at 157 and how easy it is to go down and get their paperwork done and have it

done quickly, effciently without 65

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problem and with respect towards them treated as a human being, not as a piece

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of cattle.

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Hearing

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They have heard complaints -- any time they have a complaint they will acknowledge it and help men and union

members anyway they can. I have heard nothing but rave

I am proud to say that members of Local 157 had confidence in me and voted me to be the delegate to the district

5 6 7

of the local union's newsletter for the

8

past six years.

counciL.

I have also served as the editor I have an obligation to the members of my local to represent this

will go out of his way to help them out,

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

answer any questions they may have.

20

intertined with the immigrant

21 22 23

experience in America. Our local jurisdiction was the home of millions of immigrants who came here through Ellis Island. History tells us that PJ. McGuire

reviews of all these men that are down

there as offcers. Also I heard you talk about Freddie earlier being in Puerto Rico.

I am a neighbor of his, live fairly close to him.

On Saturdays, Sundays I have been at his house 5:00, 6:00 in the afternoon

getting calls from union members and he

I think that is above and beyond the call of duty. He is down there at 6:00 in the morning willing and ready to go and

24 25

trying to make the place as efficient as

side of the story at this the time in crisis.

I will provide you with a brief overview of Local 157, past, present and

future. This local has a long history reaching back to the days of our founding father PJ. McGuire.

Our history in this local is

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possible.

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I think that should stand for something. That is all I have to say.

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THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your

testimony.

Mitch Sonntag. 9 MITCH SONNTAG, called as a witness, having 10 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Mitch, are you a

2 3

Our local and United Brotherhood have been a beacon of economic and

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social justice for nearly 100 years.

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MR. SONNTAG: Yes, sir, I am. THE CHAIRMAN: Former offcer or

officer? MR. SONNTAG: I was elected delegate in 2005. THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead with your

testimony. MR. SONNTAG: My name is Mitchell

22

Sonntag. I am in my 25th year of service to

23

the United Brotherhood.

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of membership in this organization.

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My father is now in his 50th year

jurisdiction of 157.

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member of lS7?

did much of his early organizing in the

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This local has been a ticket to the middle class and sent generations of New Yorkers on the path to the American

dream. Our modest headquarters on East 25th Street was originally built as a stable for horses.

The building was purchased by the local and was renovated and has served as the headquarters for the east side

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Local 157 has always been a reflection of the people of New York

20

City.

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We are perhaps the most ethnically, culturally diverse -- one of the most culturally and ethnically diverse memberships in the brotherhood. Our members have been involved in

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union carpenters for well over SO years.

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Hearing building our world-famous skyline for decades. Many of the men here are

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second and third generation carpenters.

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Our former business reps have

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always had a good working relationship

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with us and the contractors.

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As large as we are we are kind of a small

Hearing

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locaL.

We are proud of our heritage and history at Local 157 which brings us to

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the present.

To the best of my knowledge Local 157 is the 6th largest local in the

brotherhood and we are also the second largest local in New York City.

The majority of the members here are very happy being in Local 157.

Our membership remains steady at 4500 members. We have a solid record of member retention and if we allowed every member that wanted to transfer in we could add

20

about 1,000 members in the local easy. Why, may you ask. Believe it or not this local has a very good reputation. It is the truth.

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Local 157 members get more for

I am sure you heard that again and again today.

Don't take my word for it. Ask anyone here or the testimony in the record. Anyone can call the local from

5:30 on and get a business rep to assist them with whatever they need. Everybody knows Brother Hanley and Kennedy were in the offce at 6:00 a.m.

and that you have heard again and again. Today is a dark day for the members of Local 157. The unfortunate allegations of the Independent

Investigator Bill Callahan has caused uncertainty, dissension and has eroded the confidence of our union leaders on all

levels. That is unfortunate.

Local 157 has been characterized as a mismanaged mess in a state of disarray. Those are prett strong

words.

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Hearing their dues dollars than any other local

to my knowledge. Our dues are among the lowest in New York City.

We have a scholarship fund for the deserving children of our members. We

pioneered a sick donation fund. We provide a legal assistance benefit. We have a supplemental accident insurance benefit. Local 157 is involved in community outreach. We contribute funds to faith-based civic and youth-oriented organizations. Our members have formed clubs and

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Hearing

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The majority of the members of this local are good, hard working and honest family people.

The broadbrush that has smeared this local is resented by most and has prejudiced some of the misinformed.

That includes people out in the general public because they have read articles, the mainstream press. It makes us all look bad.

Seek the truth from the people here. Common sense goes along way. I have confidence in this examining board that we can get a fair

shake.

21 22 23

each of them has had a positive impact not only for our members but for different sectors of the community and they are really taking off, they are doing well. Our former business reps are known for their fairness, tough negotiation

21

we hope that the supervisors will sort out this mess and do right by the

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and were very popular with the members

working man that is the back bone of this organization.

24

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of all the locals in New York.

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To break up this local is a mistake. Local 157 has great potential

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Local 157 is strong. We are

united in this time of crisis. We have a lot of people here and

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for the future.

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waiting in the wings and they want to

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march in the future. Our clubs are dynamic and growing.

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New generations of leaders are

Our future apprentices are energetic and eager to make their mark in the city. The members are all telling me

they want to return the subgovernance as The members want to put supervision behind us and hold elections as soon as possible. The members want Local 157 back to

regroup and come back stronger than ever. This local must be allowed to

reunite and meet the challenges that the unionized building trades face in New York. And we do have problems. This is

this council, and by taking our local apart that this is not going to be the end of the problem?

attempt to keeping the feds out from

9

taking everyhing over?

20 21 22 23

our backyard. We know what it takes to do the job and get it done. We are proud individuals but we

of light that has found corruption in

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soon as possible.

Hearing the international suddenly found a ray

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Isn't this really a last ditch If you really wanted to fight corruption -THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on. MR. VECCHIONE: If you wanted to fight corruption in this union couldn't you have stopped at Mike Forde's desk? This man -- go ahead say what you

want to say. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We are here to investigate allegations that have been brought

forward in a previous session to this hearing about officers and former business agents of this local union. MR. VECCHIONE: Correct. THE CHAIRMAN: And about whether

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Hearing are also team players working together towards a common goal. These are things that a union carpenter is.

Please give us our local back and don't break up the locaL.

Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much

for your testimony.

11 Jay V-E either E-C-C-H-I-O-N-E. 12 JAY VECCHIONE, called as a witness, having 13 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 14 THE CHAIRMAN: Jay, are you a 15 member of Local 157. 16 MR. VECCHIONE: I am. 17 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you an offcer 18 or past offcer? 19 MR. VECCHIONE: Shop steward in

20

the locaL.

THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. Proceed. MR. VECCHIONE: You will have to

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forgive me. I don't have a prepared

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speech. I am just a carpenter. Do you expect us to believe that

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Hearing or not the emergency supervision should be contained.

I can't see anything in the general president's letter and people keep reading it in about busting up this local union and busting up that local union.

It talks about trying to get this local union functioning in the proper and prudent manner -MR. VECCHIONE: What I am asking you -THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on, Brother. As per the Constitution.

If you have something to talk about relative to that then I want to hear -MR. VECCHIONE: Is this all you

have found as far as corruption whenever you wrote a report to the international,

is this the only thing you have found, that 157 has been run shabby? This is an isolated incident in the entire district council of the City

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That is what you expect us to believe, Brother? THE CHAIRMAN: I am in here and appointed to look into the affairs of 157. That is the extent -MR. VECCHIONE: You answered my

4 5

the international for playing along.

THE CHAIRMAN: I want to tell

everybody something so that we have an understanding. If we have continued outbursts, I am here to take testimony and this committee is here to take testimony.

20 21 22 23

I can do it with you in the room or I can do it with you out of the room

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in the room then you show some respect with regard to this committee and the

and call the witnesses in one at a time. So if you want to continue to stay

THE CHAIRMAN: That is correct. MR. PICKENS: With the exception of this gentleman here it seems like you

6

have already passed judgment when

7

someone makes a point. I particularly noted the points the gentleman made earlier regarding what constitutes a day and it seems like you talked over him. THE CHAIRMAN: What constitutes a

8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

question. Thank you very much. Shame on this council and shame on

and file members.

what? MR. PICKENS: A full day. He represented fact regarding

that they was in the offce at 5:30 in the morning and you constantly keep

saying there were 120 some odd days where they left early, just ignoring the

20 21 22 23

fact the point that the brother was trying to make earlier.

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record will bear it out -MR. PICKENS: I did.

THE CHAIRMAN: If you would have

listened to everyhing I said, and the

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Hearing witnesses that are testifying.

If you choose not to, you keep that up and we will do it one witness at a time and everybody can line up outside the door and give their testimony and we

will not have a roomful of people.

That is the way it is. 9 ANDREW PICKENS,called as a witness, having 10 been duly affirmed, testified as 11 follows: 12 THE CHAIRMAN: Sit down, Brother. 13 Go ahead, Brother Andrew. 14 Are you a member of the local? 15 MR. PICKENS: Yes, I am. 16 THE CHAIRMAN: Were you an offcer 17 or past offcer of the local? 18 MR. PICKENS: No, just rank and 19 file.

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I initially wasn't going to speak. I wanted to get a feel for this hearing

but I couldn't help, I was compelled because I have heard you say that you

just arrived this morning to hear facts regarding the situation from the rank

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Hearing THE CHAIRMAN: I said one of the things we are going to ascertain from the investigator is at what time did they begin their workday to determine what time they could quit their workday. MR. PICKENS: If that is the case -THE CHAIRMAN: There are two

things, two issues that stand here. One is leave early and the other is unaccounted for. MR. PICKENS: This report was compiled by your Callahan and some other

representatives. THE CHAIRMAN: It is not my Callahan. It is the investigator from the independent investigators. MR. PICKENS: I understand. As you are reading that, if you find that their compilation of a day is unfair, does that shed light on the whole report being unfair as well that needs further investigation? THE CHAIRMAN: We will take into

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has been brought forward in testimony,

both from this membership and from the

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investigators and regional council and vice president of the eastern district as well as representatives of this

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14 15 16 17 18 19

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district council, not regional counciL.

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It will all be taken under

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advisement. The hearing has been going on since early this morning. MR. PICKENS: It seems that

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whatever is being said here when it is a pOint being made you kind of over-talk

14 15

them and you kind of state the fact from your report as being the fact.

16 17 18 19

It seems they are already guilty before you even have a chance to find

out if there is any innocence.

know how I feel sitting here.

24 25

My main thing, I have been a member of this local for a long time.

strong words when I read it in the letter because anything that is a mismanaged mess you certainly will get evidence of that through rank and file

members being that they are unaccessible where they are needed on the job. That is contrary to the situation. They are always available, always ready, always at our defense in cause of the membership rights. Whoever penned that "mismanaged

mess" was more likely trying to make a shock value or make it seem more important than it really is. That is my point. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your testimony, Brother.

Pat Ballantine. 20 PATRICK BALLANTINE, called as a witness, 21 having been duly sworn, testified as 22 follows: 23 MR. BALLANTINE: What do you want 24 to know? I have been in this local 20 25 years.

THE CHAIRMAN: That is certainly

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Hearing

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advisement all of the information that

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Hearing

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not a fact, Brother.

MR. PICKENS: I am letting you

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Hearing Let me just restate what everybody

else is saying; that when we got the

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letter, I don't know if you are privy to

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the letter that the membership has

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gotten regarding what happened from the

council where it says -THE CHAIRMAN: I have read it into the record.

MR. PICKENS: If I ask you, from what you heard thus far, do you concur

that it is a mismanaged mess? THE CHAIRMAN: I am not here to

make a determination now or at the close of the hearing until I have had a chance to go through all of the testimony, revisit the transcript, confer with my colleague and then make a recommendation to the general executive board. Ultimately this body isn't going to make the decision. It will be the general executive board of the United

Brotherhood of Carpenters. MR. PICKENS: My conclusion, I was going to say, those are definitely

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Hearing THE CHAIRMAN: Get close the mic. MR. BALLANTINE: Can you hear me now? I have been in this local 20 years. I have been a shop steward for

15. Okay.

8

I come in at 5:00 in the morning.

9 10

Sometimes I work through the night on a second shift. These gentlemen are there. Okay. They are always there.

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You guys might not see them physically in the building but they are

out in the field. They have been on my jobs countless times.

They have come and bailed me out plenty of times when I had problems with

contractors. I got to deal with the non-union guys that these guys sign up. You know what? Sometimes it is not a farce because these guys are my brothers and they are always there. They are there 100 percent. I call them any time during the

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Hearing day. They pick up the phone. The phone is just as good, just as good as them physically being there because they are -- they back us. No

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auditors, investigators, they don't back us. These guys back us.

I have been threatened on the lines. I have been threatened as a steward and I don't see any of you guys coming around, but I got these guys

11 12 13

behind my back watching me.

That is all I have to say.

14 15 16 17 18

15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thanks, Pat. 16 The last witness at this session 17 will be Glendy Jimenez. 18 GLENDY JIMENEZ,called as a witness, having 19 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 20 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon. 21 Are you a member of lS7? 22 MS. JIMENEZ: Yes. I have been a 23 member of 157 for a short time. 24 I used to be a member for Local

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Hearing

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one else backs us. Independent

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45.

That is all I wanted to say. Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

All right. This meeting will -it is 4:03. We will recess and reconvene at 6:00 p.m.

Thank you.

(Recess) THE CHAIRMAN: If I can have

everybody's attention we will start the hearing. We have had a long day. I want to go over how many of you were not here at

either one of the other sessions? There is quite a few. We have taken testimony from two

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different sessions, the morning session

20 21 22 23 24 25

and an afternoon session, and they both have been prett packed with testimony.

I think we took 36 or 34 witnesses in the second session. I want to explain a little bit

about what we are doing here and the

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Hearing

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I wanted to say that even though while I was a member of other locals I

also saw the business agents. Most of the time I work in 157 area so the people that I got to know was the 157 group.

Whenever I had any problems or issues they were always there for me, to

14

help me out. No matter what local I belong to, when you first come into the union you are like a chicken without a head. You don't know what to do, what is right and

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wrong. A lot of old members tell you

17 18 19 20 21 22 23

this, do this. These guys come to you

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and they tell you about corruption. You saying they have corruption. No, you can't do this. You can't do

that. This is what you are supposed to do. This is what a contractor is supposed to do for you. They are there everyday, all the time.

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Hearing rules that we are doing it under. I am not going to take the time -everybody received the letter dated December 3 from the general president which called this hearing; is that correct? That was mailed out? I want to introduce the hearing's

panel and explain a bit about what we are here for.

To my left is Jack Simmons who is a representative of the international union here on the hearings paneL.

To my right is Bill Halbert. Bill Halbert is the executive secretary of the midatlantic regional council of

carpenters. My name is Mike Draper. I am the international vice president for the western part of the United States. I am

the chairman of this hearing. We also have in attendance,

Frank -- are you here -- Frank Spencer who is my counterpart here on the east coast. He has been recently appointed

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Hearing vice president for the eastern district

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of the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and is doing an outstanding job, I might add.

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And also Mike Capelli is here with

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the internationaL. Mike is an

international representative assigned to the eastern district. Is all members here members in good standing of the organization? Now, I intend to take testimony from members of this local union. Any other members are allowed to be here in the United Brotherhood but

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unless you are -- you have something pertinent to this, if you are outside

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.

this local union you would have to get

permission from this committee in order to testify.

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I want everybody to understand a few simple rules. We will not have any questions, cross fire examinations from the floor. We don't need applause, we don't

Hearing We will confer and then we will make a finding and a recommendation to the general executive board of the United Brotherhood of carpenters who will then determine whether or not the

supervision should continue or cease. That is the process that we go through. Again, I want to make sure that everybody understands that we are going to have order in the room.

I want everybody to be able to stay in the room to listen to all of the witnesses but if it gets unruly what happens is we clear the room and call

the witnesses in one at a time because we are the ones that need to get the information. Now I want to make a couple of things clear about what is going on in

this hearing because it appears that there are some misconception.

The reason that we are here. Three things have happened.

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Hearing need jeering, we don't need anything

else. I want to run this in a fair and constructive manner. I want you to show courtesy to the witnesses and to the committee. We are an investigating committee.

I want that understood. We are not here conducting a trial or prosecution. What happens is the general president based on the letter that was sent out feels that there are some issues going on in this local union

which justify an emergency supervision and once that was imposed he immediately selected a panel which is the panel up here to go in and investigate, take testimony as to what is going on in this local union and that is exactly what we

21 22 23

Upon the conclusion of this hearing we will take the transcript, all

24 25

of the documents that have been entered into testimony, we wil review them.

are here to do.

Hearing Number one, there has been some

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testimony -- there has been some allegation that agents of this local union were, in fact, not doing what they were supposed to do as agents and they

are not -- I shouldn't say agents of the locaL. They are agents of the district council in terms of being in their work area on certain days of the year when they are required to be in their work

area. There are some allegations about falSifying records or not even filing records on weekly reports, about their

activities in this local union.

There are -- that is exasperated by the fact that as a result of two of

those resigning, one getting discharged, two offcers, one getting indicted,

another pleading guilty to a felony, has left a large void in the offcers and the key offcers of this local union. So if you remove the agents, they

in turn are offcers. You have a 72

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Hearing tremendous void.

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In addition to that, as a result of the imposition of an emergency supervision, an auditor from the

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international was sent in to audit the

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books to make a determination if there

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was any financial wrongdoing in this local union. We always do that during a period

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indicate to date that there has been any

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pilfering or any financial

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improprieties, meaning somebody stealing

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of supervision. While there is nothing that would

the money of the local union, during

this audit it was determined beyond a reasonable doubt that the type of bookkeeping system that was being employed here was nothing short of

20 21 22 23 24 25

shabby. There were missing checks, there were canceled checks, all of which we think to a degree we can determine now

has been accounted for, but there was

Hearing

That is well and good. You are certainly welcome to come up and give

that testimony again. I want to make another thing very clear. It isn't -- the discharge of the business agents is only a small part of why it is under emergency supervision. The fact of the matter, when you

put all of the other ingredients together, the loss of all the offcers which is the key ingredient is what

caused this to go under emergency supervision. Notwithstanding all of the testimony that we can take here today or

tomorrow, the next day or whenever anybody wants to talk about supporting business agents, the international union

does not employ, retain or fire business agents. The business agents here, contrary

to a lot of people's belief in some of these sessions, are not local union business agents.

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Hearing

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some administrative discrepancies, and, as a result of that, and that alone,

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would create an atmosphere to get

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5

somebody involved in doing at least some massive training. The supervisor, Frank Spencer, who is now in charge of this local union as

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training so that the offce help in this local union can get adequate training in order to make sure that this local

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functions as an honorable and successful

15 16 17 18 19

local union.

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the supervisor and his folks working

under him have immediately put in place

I want to point something else out because we have had a lot of the testimony.

5

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It appears that several of you or several of the folks that were here previously got up and said, well, we like our business agents. Even though they weren't on the job all the time, they were available by the telephone and

24

therefore we support our business agent.

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19

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Hearing

They work in the jurisdiction of the local union but are employed by the New York District Council of Carpenters

in all cases. Their retention, lack of retention or hiring of new agents does not come under the jurisdiction of the United Brotherhood of Carpenters.

We are not in the business of hiring business agents and overseeing the business agent process.

We have a system in place where the district and regional council are

the ones responsible for that endeavor. So one of the things that we are not going to be determining as to whether the supervision goes forward or

not forward is whether or not business agents are hired and what business agents are hired because that is the responsibility of the district counciL.

You can bring that up at a district council meeting, those that are delegates. So I just want you to

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understand.

4

about it. We have had a lot of testimony. I am not saying that you don't have the right to do that but I am

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just saying that the international

7

through its deliberations is not

8

determining whether or not folks are

14 15 16 17 18 19

testimony relative to saving Local 157.

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I can't read anything into the general president's letter, and, if you can, I want you to get up and testify

and show me so that I wil be become educated where the general president,

where the vice president of the eastern district now or through supervision or

some of you folks. There was a gentleman that was -that we had omitted from testimony.

Is he in the room? I told him I would call him up first if he was present. He is not here. I don't recall

his name. That is a recall. He had not

11 12 13

testified and he said he submitted his name. We called it and he was out of the room at the time we called it.

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I just wanted to make sure that I let him know that I had remembered if he had wanted to stay here. to face the court reporter, give your

20

name, spell your name and then raise

One of the other things that I

think is on the mind of a lot of people because we heard an inordinate amount of

issues that was burning in the minds of

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retained as business agents.

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Hearing

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You are welcome to give testimony

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Hearing

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I will call Steven Spinazzola. When you come up I want everybody

21 your right-hand after he is done and he 22 will swear you in. 23 STEVEN SPINAZZOLA,calied as a witness,

in the past, has indicated at any given

time that they intend to dissolve, merge, create a different atmosphere for

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Local 157. I don't see it.

having been duly sworn, testified as follows:

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Hearing Everybody concerned about the international coming in and doing something with Local 157, certainly

under supervision, if he was going to do it, he could have done it yesterday. I don't think there is any indication that that is what we are here to do.

What the international is trying to do is make sure the affairs of this local union get back in an orderly

manner, that the membership gets serviced. Whether you believe it or you

don't believe it that is in our keen and best interests and your best interests in that we have an administration and an administrative process in this local union that is well organized and well

functioned so everybody knows what everybody is doing.

So with that I am going to begin to call witnesses. I hope that clarifies some of the

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Hearing THE CHAIRMAN: Hi, Brother. MR. SPINAZZOLA: Hello, Brothers. THE CHAIRMAN: Steven, are you a local member? MR. SPINAZOLA: I am. THE CHAIRMAN: What I need you to do is get close up and personal with that mic.

MR. SPINAZZOLA: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: Are you an officer

or former officer of the local? MR. SPINAZZOLA: No, I am not.

I am a member for over 21 years. I have worked side-by-side with these men out in the field and union hall. I have shaped. Always gave me

good and proper service. I never felt like they did anything that was unjust as far as getting other members work or myself work and I would hate to lose these guys as business agents.

These are people that I have come to know and trust when I come to shape a job or look for men. 74

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Hearing I am formerly with Nastazzi & Associates.

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I grew very attached to this. I don't want to have none of them leave. Personally, I don't -- that is me. There is a lot of other members that

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MR. SPINAZOLA: I think it would

8 9

be a real shame to lose these men as our

leaders. Prett much that is what I have to say.

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your

Todd Siemers.

21 22 23

family.

Can you hear him now?

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close to the mic. The guys in the back have no chance.

testimony, Steven.

Hearing

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THE CHAIRMAN: You got to get real

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MR. SPINAZOLA: Thank you. MR. SIEMERS: I just came to get some information. You made the things

very clear, a bit more clear of what I need to know, so -THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. MR. SIEMERS: So I am going to take a pass. Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Joseph Rizzitano.

20 21 22 23 24 25

25 JOSEPH RIZZITANO, called as a witness,

will come and testify or whatever they do. They are our family. They are not here for other people. They are for us, not

themselves. It doesn't matter what anyone says, they are here for us. They have

always been here for us. Ten years, I came in. They helped me. That is it. I can't see them doing anything wrong because they have always helped

all of us.

If we had problems we came to them, they tried to help us out. Basically I don't want to see nothing happen to our local and I don't

want other people to turn around and come up with theories that we are going

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having been duly sworn, testified as follows:

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THE CHAIRMAN: Brother, how are

you tonight?

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MR. RIZZITANO: I am all right.

THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for

coming to the hearing. Are you a member of Local lS7? MR. RIZZITANO: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: Are you an officer

or prior officer of Local lS7? MR. RIZZITANO: No. I have been part of this local for ten years.

All the gentlemen that are here,

that you dismissed or whatever, they have been my family for ten years.

Okay. I respect them. I care about

20

them and everyhing. They have always

21

been here for us, not themselves, they

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have been here for us. That is what we need as a locaL.

That is part of my family. All the brothers and sisters of 157 is my

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Hearing

to disappear. It is not going to happen. Whatever you do, please do the right thing for us like they do. Whoever you decide to put in charge, if you decide to let Local 157

vote on whoever is going to be in charge, not take it upon yourselves to turn around and put people in charge who

don't know what they are doing. This is a family. It is not one of these things that is just going to go away. That is prett much all I have to say.

So, please, when you turn around and think about what you are doing remember this is our family. So if you are here think about it as it is our family and think about it for us, not yourselves or anything like.

I can't really see these gentlemen doing anything wrong.

They have always been here for us. 75

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That is very, very important to me and

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whoever else but mostly me. Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on just a

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second. Let me clarify one thing so you understand.

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You say the guys that we

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dismissed. Understand that this hearing panel for the first time this morning when we

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dismissed.

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entered this room knew who was

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We are not part of the -MR. RIZZITANO: I understand what you are saying. THE CHAIRMAN: When you say "you

15 16 17 18 19

dismissed," you have got to watch what

20

you are saying because we didn't dismiss

21 22 23

anybody and so it is very important that to gain information and to make a

24 25

supervision should continue or not

you understand what we are here for is

determination as to whether this

Hearing THE CHAIRMAN: I am doing well. MR. MIRANDA: Gentlemen, thank you

for sitting in on these hearings today. As I said, my name is Bruce

Miranda. I am a certified shop steward district counciL.

I have been a member with 257, 157

since 1973 so I am prett much accustomed to seeing the activities of

the business agent and what their duties are. I like to say that the business agents of 157, at least in my experience, have always been there when

I placed the call, when I visited them to take care of any union problems

and/or benefits, issues or whatever union problems may have, did arise.

20 21 22 23

the -- with 157 they have been always

24 25

touch with anybody.

I like to say that at all -- all

of my experience with all these gentlemen that were business agents with

there when in fact I needed to get in

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continue. Do you understand?

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MR. RIZZITANO: All right, but the people that you are taking away from us, boom, you need to put them back in where

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they belong.

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THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your

9 testimony. 10 Bruce V-G-I-R or B-lR-A-N-D-A. 11 Miranda. 12 M. Bruce Miranda. 13 BRUCE MIRANDA, called as a witness, having

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Hearing

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been duly sworn, testified as follows: THE CHAIRMAN: That is Miranda? MR. MIRANDA: That is Miranda,

like the warnings. iHE CHAIRMAN: Bruce, are you a member of Local lS7? MR. MIRANDA: Yes, I am. THE CHAIRMAN: An offcer of 1S7? MR. MIRANDA: No, I am not. THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead with your

testimony. MR. MIRANDA: How are you doing?

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Hearing I have to say especially Mr. Fred

Kennedy. Mr. Kennedy has always been available at any particular time almost 24/7, should I say. I am not here to put you gentlemen in the position or make an allegation to

6 7 8 9 10

whatever. I am sure you are only here to

11

take testimony and observe what exactly

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

is going on. So please don't let anything that I am going to say and direct it towards you. I am sure that most people that

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you that you are removing them or

these letters that I received from Mr. McCarron and also Mr. Forde in regards

to these allegations that have been thrown, put up, forwarded to us and the independent investigator, that he made allegations that he was able to get phone records and made these statements

when in fact it is hard for me to believe that these men were not around. Now, maybe me being in this union

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prejudiced with any race, color and they

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Hearing for 35 years and I am making the statement now that any particular time

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that I did call I was able to reach a

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always were out there organizing before the organizers were around.

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business agent to resolve the problem.

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There is not a time that I was left hanging more than 20 minutes or

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anything like that.

If -- in fact, if I had directed my problem and I had to resolve it early in the morning, at 5:30 in the morning,

I was able to go up to 157 and see Fred Kennedy sitting behind his desk and I was able to discuss the problem at hand and I was able to get a decisive answer within that day to resolve the problem. Can you hear me? THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. MIRANDA: So my statement is

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that I don't know where all this information is coming from. What kind of investigator has done this background work, how good the investigator is and it baffles me that

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this has come up to play with these

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Hearing

1

They volunteered, each and every one of them and parades. What else? Picnics, whatever

outings, you know, scholarships, they always been together. They always worked together and I have been a shop steward in 608 and

always got a lot of feedback from shop stewards over at 608 that our local is

14

very forward, straight up because all

15 16 17 18 19

the business agents are out there, all in one room, and they feel comfortable

20 21 22 23

24 25

coming in with their report and, you know, that is my honest opinion. That is all I got say. I think this is not right. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your testimony. Hercules Reid, did he get back in the room? Come on up.

303 1

Hearing individuals, felons charged with this

305

felony results back to us and turns

2 3

4

around and say these men were not doing

4

5

their job. It confuses me in this

6 7 8

fashion. What I would like to say to you is thank you very much for your time. This is my statement.

9 10 11

12 13

14

Have a good evening. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for coming and testifying.

Is Hercules Reid in the room? A VOICE: He went to a parking meter.

15 16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. 17 How about James Corradina? 18 JAMES CORRADINA, called as a witness, 19 having been duly sworn, testified as

20 21 22 23 24 25

follows: MR. CORRADINA: My name is James

Corradina, member of 157, 22 years; shop steward 17 years back, and each and -and each and every business agent has been honest, fair, loyal, never

Hearing

1

2 3

5

6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

HERCULES REID, called as a witness, having

been duly sworn, testified as follows: THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening. Hercules, are you a member of lS7? MR. REID: Yes, I am. THE CHAIRMAN: Would you get real close the mic so everybody can hear you? Okay.

Offcer. MR. REID: No. THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead with your

testimony. MR. REID: I have been a member in

this local for a good number of years now and I have seen changes since the time I have been there. I remember -- I am a little bit

out of breath because I ran to the meter.

20 21 22 23

THE CHAIRMAN: I understand. MR. REID: I remember when there was a big change, George Menman was the

24 25

president of the local and he was removed and replaced. 77

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2

I remember other business agents,

3

for example, Mike Biello was a business agent and he was removed. The pOint here is that we have

4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

1

2

3

4 5 6

seen changes and we have been -endeavored to move forward and hoping for better for the local, for the entire

7 8 9 10

locaL.

Inasmuch as I do not -- do not agree in some way or another in the way that the members -- the offcers were

11

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

removed from offce yet and still I have

14 15 16 17 18 19

just a few, but all members. We have trouble a lot over the

20

years and, as I said, we have seen many

21

changes. I have supported even a business

22 23 24 25

308

to say that I believe that we as a local

must move forward.

We have to look for ways to make this local better for all members, not

agent who have been removed even now in

many ways and in some form or another, you know, as I said, I think it might

20 21 22 23

Hearing been. I think that we have to again look for ways to make this local more -there is more equality among all the members, whether in leadership or

offcers or whatever it is. I think that we need to look for ways for improving and move forward. We have to always look forward to see how we can better make the local and the union on a whole better. As I said, a couple members

resigned. Okay. So they decided that they are not going to come back. We can't move back with those members. We have to look for ways to

move ahead. We are now in the process of change and we have to just try to do our best to make it work for everybody.

I hope that whatever panel or group of people come together to look

24

into how to better work, make this union

25

a better place for everybody, that they

307 1

2 3

4 5

6

7 8 9 10 11 12 13

14 15 16 17 18 19

20 21 22 23 24 25

Hearing have been heavy handed in some way or

another.

309 1

2

Hearing will also consult with the members to

As the letter stated, okay, two of the members resigned, and apparently

3

see how they can at least get their

4

opinion in ways to make the local better

they felt it was necessary for them to resign. I heard members saying maybe we

6 7 8 9 10

members are sometimes, you know, put in the back burner and things were just run down their throat.

11 12 13

members would be consulted; you know would be asked what they think and how,

need to get back these members in office

but they resigned so we have to move forward. We have to move forward. We have to seek ways to make this local better. You know, the local has to be a local that is about the members, all the members, not just a few members, but all

of the members. We have to be rightly represented right across the board. We have to find ways in making sure that all the members are represented because I personally

feel there are times when -- and I have heard it many times -- that some members feel as if they were out of place in their own local and that should not have

5

14 15 16 17 18 19

20 21 22 23 24 25

because for many years also I have seen where, you know, the members were never

consulted on issues and I feel that

I am hoping in this period here you know, they think we should move forward instead of just throwing things at them.

This is what I would hope for and I am hoping that this local can move forward, we can make it a better, stronger and more successful union.

I hope that, you know, the people that are now in offce will also try to think about all the members, not just

the selected few or whatever the case might be but every member. 78

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Hearing We have over 4,000 members and we

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4 5 6

7 8 9

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are all card carrying members, dues paying members and everyone should be thought of as equal.

4 5 6 7 8

So I am saying that we need to look for ways to make this union better

for everyone. I thank you.

9

THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much

for your testimony. Is it Drew Lacey? I will hold him.

THE CHAIRMAN: If we are going to

21

play games -- you do what the court

22 23 24 25

reporter asked you to do and everybody is going to be courteous to everybody else, Ken, or you won't testify. MR. BAUMANN: Point taken.

Hearing years ago he get locked up at a rally for inciting a riot.

His back was to the wall and if I am not mistaken he went to court on a state charge.

They threw it out to a federal charge. It went back as a state charge, went back and forth for 100 years.

10

All right.

11

12 13 14 Ken Baumann, are you here? 15 Kenny, you told me you would be 16 here when we started. 17 MR. BAUMANN: I was. 18 KENNY BAUMANN, called as a witness, having 19 been duly sworn, testified as follows:

20

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12 13 14 15 16

But yet he was there for the union

and for the membership and for the men. If I am not mistaken when other members of this union had legal problems

he was also there for them too if I am not mistaken.

That is off the record.

17 18 19

20 21 22 23

24 25

That guy is 100 percent union, all right.

To cut his legs out is a travesty. As far as taking off from work early, he has put the key in the door at

5:40 every morning for 10 years. I went in there with him a lot of times. He is accessible.

311

Hearing

1

313

2

4

Mr. Kennedy, our locaL. Now it is in the papers, but you guys -- their

5

integrity has been slandered.

4

I have known Mr. Kennedy over 18

6 7

years. I am very close to him over

8 9

seven. I will testify here under oath

10 11

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

20 21 22 23 24 25

Hearing

1

We came here to testify for

2 3

that I see him on a day-to-day basis. That man, he answers the phone on

holidays, weekends, 8:00, 9:00, 10:00 at night. He answers the phone like you cannot believe to the point where on his

free time -- we ride bikes together. Every four minutes he has to stop and

answer the phone, go out of the garage and take a call to either correct

problems, help people out, do the right thing. Tommy Lasorda once said he bleeds

Dodger blue. That man bleeds union blood.

Okay. If I am not mistaken didn't

3 5

6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

14

If you guys don't want to believe about the cell phone stuff, cell phone, faxes and all the other nonsense and whatnot. I guarantee he will get out of bed and be right there if there is a fucking problem.

He has proven himself numerous times to this local and this union. Other guys may be to the union whatever the case may be but he is there 100 percent. I don't know where I am going with

15 16 17 18 19

this. I am kind of nervous about this,

20 21 22 23 24 25

roll your eyes. I am probably committing suicide right here but that

but you should have more members like

him. You really should. This is a real travesty.

If you want to roil your eyes, is just the way it is, all right. Obviously somebody had to be a lamb and he was your guy.

sacrificial

This commission -- I will leave it 79

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at that.

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Thanks for hearing me out.

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THE CHAIRMAN: Let's hold it down.

4

For your information, I wasn't rolling my eyes. The lights are bothering my eyes. My eyes weren't rolling. The light is bothering my eyes.

5

6 7 8 9 10 MR. BAUMANN: I got a pair of 11 sunglasses. Do you want to -12 THE CHAIRMAN: I don't need your 13 sunglasses. 14 Thank you. 15 Drew Lacey. 16 DREW LACEY called as a witness, having 17 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 18 THE CHAIRMAN: Drew, are you a 19 member of 157. 20 MR. LACEY: Yes, I am. 21 THE CHAIRMAN: Offcer? 22 MR. LACEY: No. 23 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. 24 MR. LACEY: Good evening,

25

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Hearing

1

6

7 8

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

Hearing Just like my brother Mr. Baumann

said, this is a travesty. Freddie has been unbelievable to

even members from 608 that you are on the job and you hear everybody has got nothing good -- nothing but good to say about Freddie. He has always been

there. I think it is a crying shame what happened to my offcers. I am just so aggravated, it is hard to say because you know the language I would use is inappropriate. I am just very upset and I think that will be all. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your

testimony.

Eric Mason. 20 ERIC MASON, called as a witness, having 21 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 22 THE CHAIRMAN: Eric, get real 23 close the mic. 24 Are you an officer of the locaL. 25 MR. MASON: Yes, I am.

gentlemen. 315

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20 21 22 23

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Hearing

1

I am here to say what happened to these officers is a crying shame. These are good guys, that I can say I worked with on the side, that have always been there even for the members before they were offcers. One of those gentlemen is Freddie Kennedy. He has been there for the guys

even before he got put and elected to his position.

I can say numerous times I have gone to Local 157. I walked in there I

can say quarter to 6:00 and I have seen my offcers sitting there. I seen Freddie, I seen Georgie, Danny, Billy. I seen them all siting

there. If I had a problem I would call

Freddie. I would call George and say, listen there is something going on over

here. What is the address, Drew. Give him the address. Freddie was

already there. He was already there.

1

2 3

4 5

6 7 8 9

10 11 12 13

14 15 16

17 18 19

20

Hearing THE CHAIRMAN: What are you? MR. MASON: I am a carpenter

steward. THE CHAIRMAN: Not an elected officer of the local?

MR. MASON: No. THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. MR. MASON: Once again, my name is Eric Mason.

I have been -- I was initiated in

this local, let's say, the carpenters local in 1982 and I transferred over to carpenters Local 257 back in 1983.

You know what I want to say is my delegates have always been by my side, especially where a person like me, I have a problem staying on the payrolL.

I know that I can always knock on lS7's door for support. I know my business agents are there to back me up. Like every local runs their local

21 22 23

differently, you know. Whereas some

24 25

job sites, sometimes you don't, but the

locals you see business agents on the

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Hearing way I work is when I get on the job site after I am dispatched to a job I call my business agent up. I say, hi, my name

agents know what job I am at and they

9

know I am there.

They say, let me see you on such shocked we didn't have a Christmas

16 17 18 19

lot at the meetings because I am kind of shy but I feel like this is one time that I need to come down and give my business agents some support.

You know, I don't usually say a

If my testimony can do anything to

21 22 23

help them out and the local I am here to help because the local has been by my side since 1982, 1983.

24

We all know who is in charge, you know. I just hope that any decisions

25

5

6 7 8 9 10

and such a date. You know, I was just -- I was

part.

20

4

Most of the times the business

14 15

Hearing

1

2 3

is Eric Mason. I am at such and such address.

5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13

320

pride, integrity. They are great labor leaders. I think if the international really had the concern of this local in

mind they would have gone about this a lot differently. George DiLacio, Freddie Kennedy, he is a stand-up union man. They stand behind their members daily, everyday, on

call 24/7. It would be a catastrophic mistake

11 12 13

to remove these men, our elected

14

offcials, not Michael Forde's business

15 16 17 18 19

agents, my elected offcials. No democratic process here. These men have been unfairly removed from their positions.

20

Under what terms or what slander, we don't know. We don't believe what we

21

are hearing. It is contrary to what we

22 23

years of me knowing these men on a

24 25

have seen, what they have exercised 25

personalleve!. There have been personal problems

319 1

Hearing that are made will be the right

321

decisions for the membership and for the

4

2 3

locaL.

5

Thank you for letting me say what I would say. My name is Eric Mason.

4

6 7 8

THE CHAIRMAN: Thanks, Eric.

Thank you for coming down.

9 Philip Ficarra. 10 PHILIP FICARRA, called as a witness, 11 having been duly sworn, testified as 12 follows: 13 MR. FICARRA: Thank you for taking

14 15 16 17 18 19

20 21

22

the time.

THE CHAIRMAN: Are you an officer of the local, Philip?

MR. FICARRA: No. Job steward.

Proud member of the local 27 years. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for coming. Go ahead.

23

MR. FICARRA: I dealt with these men on all different levels from project

24 25

jobs. They have exercised nothing but

to project manager to supervisors on

Hearing

1

2 3

5

6

7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

with me, guided me through, business, personal. There is a lot of things I can say about their character but their character speaks for itself.

If the international truly had this local in mind they wouldn't have gone about it the way they did. They ripped our heart out. They

took two labor leaders and took them from their jobs. They were given ultimatums. These men are labor leaders; strong, proud, pride, integrity.

There is nothing more I can say on

17 18

their behalf. I am at a loss for words.

19

can say what the international has done to this locaL. They ripped our hearts

20 21 22 23 24 25

25 years in this locaL. Nothing

out again.

I have a list of things that I

wanted to say. I think I prett much covered it alL.

I thank you for coming tonight. 81

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Hearing You have a happy holiday. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Joe Faith. JOSEPH FAITH, called as a witness, having been duly sworn, testified as follows: MR. FAITH: Mr. Draper, merry

324

5

MR. SALVADOR: I am a proud member of Local 157 for 21 years and I really

8

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

257, Local 157 over 25 years.

I am a certified shop steward in New York City. Phil Ficarra just summed

up my whole statement. I mean, he said nothing more than anybody else could say about these two

gentlemen. MR. FICARRA: I had a lot more to

say if I had more time.

22 23 24 25

MR. FAITH: The misconception about some time, there is a lot of pros

20 21 22 23

and cons on to that because you

24 25

gentlemen you are on the clock 24/7 just

THE CHAIRMAN: How are you

tonight.

7

Welcome to New York City. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Are you a member of Local -MR. FAITH: I am a member of Local

follows:

4 6

Christmas.

21

Hearing

1

2 3

want to find out what is going on tonight. You say tonight you have no proof of the accusations. That is what I heard. You had told me -- that is what

you told me when I walked in here. THE CHAIRMAN: I don't know that I

talked to you when you walked in here but when we opened the hearing -MR. SALVADOR: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: So that you

understand and everybody understands again, we are taking testimony. MR. SALVADOR: That's right. THE CHAIRMAN: We have testimony about some allegations. MR. SALVADOR: Allegations. THE CHAIRMAN: Wait a minute. MR. SALVADOR: I will wait.

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Hearing

1

325 1

Hearing THE CHAIRMAN: That is exactly what we are here for.

2

like they are.

2

3

4

You get a phone call at 6:00 when you are having your dinner and you have

4

5

to look at it with a little speculation.

5

6 7 8

Freddie Kennedy, I can call and he is having dinner at the diner and he will help you out. Georgie is making a deal at a Jets game on a Sunday afternoon and he will

6 7 8 9 10

to be here.

help you out. These guys did nothing wrong here.

11

heard you say that. THE CHAIRMAN: You came in because

9

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

20

Now, if you feel that you have to be here, then let Mr. Spencer be here. These men should be reinstated, retroactive immediately, and let Mr. Spencer oversee, if that is the way you

want it to be, but bring the house back together. Merry Christmas. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your

3

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

20

If the testimony had already been proven, it wouldn't be necessary for us MR. SALVADOR: You said it was an

atmosphere; action is taken because of an atmosphere.

That is what I heard you say. I

of an atmosphere. MR. SALVADOR: It is only an atmosphere that actions will be taken. THE CHAIRMAN: You have

resignations, you have indictments. MR. SALVADOR: By whom? THE CHAIRMAN: I said -- hold on. Stop.

testimony. How about Steven Salvador?

21 22 23

The rest of you, if you want to butt in, go outside.

24 STEPHEN SALVADOR, called as a witness, 25 having been duly sworn, testified as

24 25

misunderstanding here I am going to get through this hearing and if we have to

21 22 23

So that there is no

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Hearing clear the hall and have you come in one at a time to testify in front of this

4

committee, I will

1

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are going to give this committee the

9

courtesy. If not, the hall will be emptied and I will assure you of that because we

11

12 13 14 15 16

17 18 19

20

4

that that is exactly what will happen.

We are going to listen to somebody up there, give them the courtesy and you

5 6 7 8 9 10

get one way or another. So that you all understand the

14 15 16 17 18 19

rules we are working under that is the rules we are working under. Go ahead.

MR. SALVADOR: Okay. That is what I understood when I walked in. THE CHAIRMAN: If you have some

the testimony.

24 25

testimony.

I would like to say the true accusations against them are proven.

I don't want them to be dismissed on an atmosphere because that is what I heard earlier.

There is a lot going on. Prove it and then remove them.

That is it. That is my testimony. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

11 Ken, I can't really read it right, 12 B-L-U-L-L or T-T. 13 KENNETH BLUHM, called as a witness, having

are going to get the testimony the general president sent us down here to

21 22 23

Hearing

1

2 3

let you know right now

7

10

328

20 21 22 23 24 25

testimony to give about 157, you give

MR. SALVADOR: I will give my

been duly sworn, testified as follows: THE CHAIRMAN: Ken, are you a

member of lS7? MR. BLUHM: Yes, I am. THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead in your

testimony. MR. BLUHM: You didn't ask me if I

am offcer. THE CHAIRMAN: Are you? MR. BLUHM: I have to tell you

that perhaps I have the dubious distinction of being the shortest

327

Hearing

1

3

I am a very proud member, as I mentioned, for 21 years.

4

My officers have served me very

2

5

6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

14 15 16 17 18 19

well.

I am very proud of all of them.

I don't know what is happening tonight because you have no proof, that is what you told me, of the accusations. You said it is an atmosphere that they have to be removed.

Am I wrong what you told me? THE CHAIRMAN: I am not going into

that. I never said an atmosphere. MR. SALVADOR: I heard it. THE CHAIRMAN: The record will

speak for itself. If you want to buy a copy of the transcript work it out with

20 21 22 23

the court reporter.

24 25

offcers have done very well for me all

He will sell you one. MR. SALVADOR: Yes, I would.

I would also like to say my

through the years, each one of them, and

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Hearing

1

2 3

4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

14 15 16 17 18 19

20 21 22 23 24 25

serving delegate in the history of the UBC.

I was appointed a couple days before the officers of my local were

either forced or asked to resign or be dismissed, so I attended two meetings. However, many of the brothers and

sisters in this room know me as a co-worker, as a shop steward, certified shop steward and as foreman. Probably most people in this room

know me in my position as serving as Local lS7's representative to the election committee both at the local level and at the district councilleve!. Having said that, I am not here to

bâsh anybody else from other locals or from other bodies. However, in general, in President McCarron's letter to the membership

there is a line that says, "It appears the affairs of the Local 157 are being conducted in a manner detrimental to the welfare and best interests of Local

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Hearing

1

1

Hearing delegate body or as an officer of this

2 3

157."

I put it to you, gentlemen, today

4

2 3

that former President William Hanley,

4

Again, on a personal note, as you

5

former Vice President George DiLacio,

6

former financial secretary Fred Kennedy, while they may have been dismissed

5

6 7

according to the rules of the Constitution by the EST of this district

have heard many other people say, I know these men. I know these men for 18 years, some of them -- many of them

8

actually before they were business

7 8 9 10 11 12 13

14 15 16

17 18 19

20 21 22 23 24 25

9 10 11 12 13

council who has the ability to appoint and dismiss business agents and business representatives as he so chooses, these were elected offcials of our locaL. The thing that concerns me having been active in my local's affairs, both politically and socially, is that my

local has been left without representation. If they had been removed, simply

been removed as business agents for not doing their jobs, perhaps a lot of us could have understood that. agreed that they didn't do it to the

best of their ability. I am not saying

agents, before they were even members of my original local 257. In that time they have all grown

to be excellent labor leaders as other people's testimony has said.

14

They have been there to back up

15 16 17 18 19

stewards, they have been to job sites. When there was a problem when

20

somebody needed them there they were there. The other part of it is they also had stewards they could trust. They

21

knew the people that were out there.

22 23 24 25

Maybe some people would have

district counciL.

Since the stewards are being

appointed out of the district council

simply coming off a list, you could have a guy who is not even a certified

331

Hearing

1

333 1

2 3

that is the case. However, in their positions as

2

4

officers of the local they were duly elected by the membership of this local, most by overwhelming majorities. The delegate body was elected by the membership of the locaL. Now, as I understand it, the terms

4

5

6 7 8

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

of trusteeship or supervision can postpone elections up to 18 months. Being familiar with the election procedure, the next district council

election is next December. If this local is not given elections prior to that we will have no

voice in the district council elections. We would not be able to run a

candidate as either vice president or

20

president of the district council should

21 22 23

someone choose because they need to be

24 25

an elected delegate.

This local would be further harmed by not having any representation at the district council level either in the

3 5

6 7 8

9 10 11 12 13

14 15 16

Hearing steward, somebody who has been in the local less than five or six years going out on a steward's job where there is

SO, 60 men and not having a clue as to what to do. Those are the jobs that business agents need to go visit. They don't need to visit the jobs where there are experienced men taking care of things and informing them as to what is going on. Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your testimony. Arnold Bayley.

17 ARNOLD BAYLEY, called as a witness, having 18 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 19 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, 20 Arnold. 21 MR. BAYLEY: Good evening. 22 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you a member of 23 lS7? 24 MR. BAYLEY: Yes, I am. 25 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you an offcer?

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Hearing MR. BAYLEY: No. I am not. THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. MR. BAYLEY: Sittng here and listening to all these testimonies, one

Hearing

1

2 3

4 5

thing I picked up, and it was redundant

know how to act, they have no class.

8

educated people that decide I have a

9 10 11 12 13

in this local who have been in this local over 30 years sat down with me personally and guide me through this local meaning how to show up on a job on

14 15 16

time, always be the first apprentice on the job when I was an apprentice, always

17 18

being the last apprentice when I was the apprentice, make sure you take all the coffee orders right and do the right thing. My president, vice president, financial secretary always asked me how are you doing, Arnold, how is the family?

that we don't have to look down to be construction people, like the outside construction people are rude, they don't

6 7

over and over and over. We all belong to a great Local

157, our brotherhood. I came -- I would say I am a young guy in this locaL. I have had older men

the right benefits and the right wages,

19

20

Education. A lot of us know better chance to become a union

carpenter and make a better wages than working for corporate America that has

no loyalty at alL. At the end of the day all you can get is a toaster or a

turkey or things for the service where I can go to my union delegates and president and he will tell me, listen, don't worry about that, go out there and

do the best and I guarantee the best will come to you. Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Karl Mark Songui.

21 22 23 KARL MARK SONGUI, called as a witness,

24

having been duly sworn, testified as

25

follows:

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6

7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

Hearing Coming to this local every time,

all the meetings, that means something to me. That means I belong to a real brotherhood. A brotherhood is something where even when one member have a problem, we

all have a problem, and sitting here that is what, what y'all was hearing.

If our brothers have a problem, we are here to back our brothers. We are showing them support as they shown me over the years.

The charges whatever was brought up, I guarantee by the end of this hearing y'all will all have second

337

4 5

6 7 8

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

17 18 19

guessing on what these charges against

17

these men.

20

am proud to be a union carpenter.

18 19

21

The only thing I have to say is I

When I go out to different

22 23

carpenter and be proud of it because the

24 25

and look out for us, make sure we have

functions I can always say I am union

men that we elected always go out there

Hearing

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2 3

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THE CHAIRMAN: Brother Karl, how

are you tonight? Are you a member of the Local 157. MR. SONGUI: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: Officer? MR. SONGUI: No. My name is Karl Mark Songui. I have been a member of this local for eight years.

To the charges brought up on my

officers, I find it hard to believe. When I was a first-year apprentice coming to the meetings they always asked

me how everyhing is going, how is my family, how is the job. And when I graduated my apprenticeship, became a mechanic, it

continued. There were times when I knew I had to go to the hall to pay my dues and I

sawall of them there. I find it very hard to believe these charges.

That is what I have to say. 85

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Hearing THE CHAIRMAN: So you understand,

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I don't recall charges. If you understand, two of the

4

Hearing I have only been a brother in --

in the Brotherhood for eight years. From the time that I have been in,

offcers, the key offcers, have resigned their position and so you understand I have tried to, today, one

5

from my apprenticeship through into my

6 7

journeymanship or whatever, I have

of the offcers that resigned his

8

my delegates with any problem that I have, with any issues that might come about.

position, I tried to get a signed -- a

9 10

confidentiality agreement. I would like to see it. Council

11 12 13

can't provide it because they signed it. He resigned both his office and

his position as the business

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

representative under a confidentiality agreement and indicated that he didn't want me to see it either so it wasn't

that they were charged. It was a -- there was an investigation. They were confronted with the evidence and they chose to resign and sign a confidentiality

agreement. What is contained in that

agreement, I don't know. I haven't seen

always been able to come to my local and

Whenever I come to my local

meetings or go into the hall they come up to me and they shake my hand and they call me by my name, and that means something to me. As far as Freddie Kennedy is concerned, I mean, there is a whole lot I can say but most importantly is that he is a stand up guy and he will go

through the fires for his members. I think for him to -- for him and the rest to be forced to resign or whatever the story is is, as the other

24

members have said, is an atrocity and I

25

do not agree with it at all.

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Hearing

1

2 3

it. Okay? So I just want the record to be

4 5

clear. You could treat it as you want to

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treat it or believe it as you want to believe it but them are the facts.

8

9 10 11

12 13

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20 21 22 23

24 25

Thank you. MR. SONGUI: Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for coming, by the way. Richard Moore. RACHID MOORE, called as a witness, having been duly sworn, testified as follows: THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, Rachid.

Are you a member of 157. MR. MOORE: Yes, I am. THE CHAIRMAN: Offcer? MR. MOORE: No. THE CHAIRMAN: GET close the mic and give your testimony. MR. MOORE: I am prett much a

newbie, young as far as the time line of being a union member.

341 1

2 3

4 5

Hearing As far as I am concerned these men

always had my back no matter what and there is not much more I can say about that.

6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. 7 MR. MOORE: Thank you. 8 THE CHAIRMAN: Val Ruiz. 9 VAL RUIZ, called as a witness, having been 10 duly sworn, testified as follows: 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, VaL. 12 MR. RUIZ: Good evening. 13 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you a member of 14 157. 15 MR. RUIZ: Yes. I am a shop 16 steward. 17 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. 18 MR. RUIZ: 157 has been like a 19 family.

20 21 22 23

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When it was at 257, whatever, the

guys were removed in a fashion that I still don't understand it. You guys can get indicted and still be offcers. You have guys trying to do the

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saying that about 608 but you go to

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their local, you can't even talk to nobody. You walk in our local, it is like

3

There is no reason for it to be dissolved. This is not about it being

4

dissolved.

5

When you take a big part of it out you are breaking it up.

2

15 16 17 18 19

used to go up there any time of the day, the ladies that work for us that handle

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6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

our business day-to-day.

21 22 23

It is being run maybe because the way everyhing happened but there is too much disorder up there. They took

20

24 25

everybody out at one time. You cut the whole head like if

8

9 10

a family in the locaL.

11

Now I go up there, you can't even

12 13

speak to the girls in the back anymore.

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Hearing

1

right thing for the business and these guys stand behind our local all the time. We go up to our local and I am not

4

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Hearing

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You can't go here, you can't go -- these guys up here making rules making you feel like you are in a concentration

camp. When you used to go up there you

21 22 23 24 25

You put people in there, people

not being as comfortable as they are, guys don't want to go up there. Like it took -- the guy said they took the Christmas part. Everybody wants to know what is going on. No, we

can't have that right now. There is too much animosity going on. Animosity against what? Against the brotherhood? No.

Whatever the accusations are, they are. Why should the brotherhood get hurt in any shape or manner? Why should we change the way we run it? If Georgie is there, Billy is

there, everyhing should be run the way it should be run. I am not saying the Christmas part is a big thing. A lot of people

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2 3

Hearing something was being accomplished by that, you know.

4

I think it was done the wrong way

5

but you are the boss, you will figure it out. You know what I am saying. I am

6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

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saying the guys always there, Georgie,

Billy, Danny, Lawrence, all of them,

they always been there when you need them. I call any time. If I can't reach one I try the other. If I reach one and he is not on he will tell me, Val, call Freddie. They will call it up. Whatever the problem is it will get taken care of.

That allegation that you can never reach a business agent or see a business

agent when you need it, I don't know where it came from.

I never had that problem. We have a good local and I understand why Forde or y'all don't want to dissolve it.

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2 3

4 5 6 7

Hearing are saying why did they take that small thing. Even the retirees come there to see one another. That is the kind of

local it is. It is a family-orientated locaL.

8

I have been there for a lot of

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

years. It is a shame, and I really hope

20 21

22 23 24 25

that these hearings do do something

because a lot of people say I am not going to that shit, excuse my French, because nothing gets done. They already

got their decisions made. I hope y'all don't have your decisions made and I hope something can be done.

We need the right people in the right spot like y'all say, when you are

running for offcers or doing something you need the right people to reach the right people. We need the right people in our

offce, that is all I have to say, for our people.

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Hearing

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We had good leadership up there,

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man. I don't know where it is going

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from now because we don't know what they

5 can do. What we had up there was good. 6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, VaL. 7 We are going to take about a 8 ten-minute break so that the committee 9 can take a restroom break. 10 We will be back in ten minutes. 11 (Recess) 12 THE CHAIRMAN: Back on the record. 13 Keith Knaack. 14 KEITH KNAACK, called as a witness, having 15 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 16 THE CHAIRMAN: Have a seat, 17 Brother. 18 Brother Keith, are you a member of 19 157. 20 MR. KNAACK: Yes, I am. 21 THE CHAIRMAN: Offcer? 22 MR. KNAACK: No.

23 24 25

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Hearing

1

My testimony here is that -- is

that I have never felt better about the leadership in this local and I wish I

2 3

4

THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your

testimony, Keith. James Corrigan. Have you

5 testified once? 6 MR. CORRIGAN: Yes. 7 THE CHAIRMAN: I will put you over 8 here. 9 Mr. King, are you in the room? 10 Brother King, come on up. 11 AUSTIN KING, called as a witness, having 12 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 13 THE CHAIRMAN: Have a seat,

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

24 25

Austin. Are you a member of Local 157. MR. KING: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: Offcer?

MR. KING: No. THE CHAIRMAN: Will you get real close to the mic so the folks in the back can hear you? MR. KING: I am member of 257/157 for 20 plus years and the local is a prett good locaL.

Fred Kennedy, I sat and heard the

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Hearing had -- could be as strong now in

testifying for these guys as they have been for me. Personally, I have -- any time I have ever gone to pay my dues these guys are always asking, are you working, are you okay.

I was working out of a jurisdiction. I was in the 608 jurisdiction working on the Plaza Hotel and every Friday morning I had to call

for a stamp shortage form because I wasn't getting paid right and 608 wasn't helping me at all so I had to turn back to my local and Freddie Kennedy personally had to come and give me my shortage forms and straighten these out

for me. These guys, I have never had more

trust in a leadership than these guys. That is really all I have to say. I just wish I could be as strong as these guys have been for me and my local.

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Hearing

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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

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majority of speakers. They mentioned him by name. He is a good business agent but it is so sad to learn that he resigned. I guess, is it possible for him to come back? The men need him. 157, I notice that there is a lot

of strangers, the business agent, and sometimes you are in offices for a long

period of time. There is nobody here. I think if there is a new group of business agents in 157 I think I will try to run.

As I said, Fred Kennedy is a good guy and it is so sad to see him leave. 157 I think is the best local in the city. This is my local, local

skilled members. Sometimes I personally go to the hall and Fred Kennedy would come and ask me, how are you. If there is any problem he would

try to help you, but, as I said, it wouldn't be good if there are strangers in 157.

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Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.

2 3

Thank you for your testimony.

4

Mike Bilello. MICHAEL BILELLO, called as a witness,

5 6

having been duly sworn, testified as follows: THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, Mike. MR. BILELLO: Good evening. THE CHAIRMAN: Member? MR. BILELLO: Member of 157. THE CHAIRMAN: Offcer? MR. BILELLO: Not an offcer. THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead with your

testimony. MR. BILELLO: I thought it was

important to testify on a point that Kenny Bluhm actually did a prett good

20

job of explaining before.

21 22 23

THE CHAIRMAN: Who is that? MR. BILELLO: Kenny Bluhm. THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. MR. BILELLO: As you probably know, we have an election for district

24 25

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Hearing

1

7

Hearing grievances, the out-of-work list. They

are powerful positions. We deserve a right to be part of that process.

Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your

8

testimony.

9

Let me make a point so that you and everyone else understands too.

10 11 12 13

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

24 25

That the normal election process under normal conditions you have

nominations in May, elections in June and installation in July.

If you in fact are under supervision and the offcers are

removed, that is not necessarily the cycle because once the supervision -generally right before the supervision

is removed you begin a process of nominations and elections of offcers. It may be to get back on a cycle, instead of a -- do you run three year terms here?

Instead of a three year term, it

351 2 3

4 5 6

council offcers scheduled a year from now, December 2008, EST president and vice president. So in order to run for vice

president or president you have to be an

7 8 9 10

elected delegate from your local. So in order for this local to participate in that capacity we would have to have our elections prior to

11 12 13

that.

14 15 16 17 18 19

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Hearing

1

The UBC Constitution calls for

nominations in May, elections in June. I think that would be a good

schedule to try to adhere to so that we can participate in that election in that capacity.

We may decide nût to run a candidate for either one of those positions but we should be afforded the opportunity to do that.

20 21 22 23

councils as you know they do all the

24 25

functions that are really vital to the membership, collective bargaining,

With these full service district

Hearing

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might be 29 months, it might be 31 months, it might be something different but it -- supervision don't always end on an election cycle. MR. BILELLO: I understand that all too well as do many of the people in

this room. We have been through this before.

We know the rules. THE CHAIRMAN: It is duly noted that you would like to be out from under

supervision if in fact there is supervision in time to get a representation at the district counciL. MR. BILELLO: otherwise it is

another three years before we get that opportunity. THE CHAIRMAN: Duly noted. MR. BILELLO: Thank you.

21 Israel Fernandez. 22 ISRAEL FERNANDEZ, called as a witness, 23 having been duly sworn, testified as 24 follows: 25 MR. FERNANDEZ: How are you?

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356

1 Hearing

2 THE CHAIRMAN: Doing very well, 3 thank you. 4 MR. FERNANDEZ: I was a laborer

like that without your

2 out of the local

3 not really letting us know what is going

4 on, I don't think that is right.

5 for 13 years before.

5 To see, and at this time too when

6 THE CHAIRMAN: You want to admit

6 we got the holidays going on. You

7 that in this hall?

7 understand?

8 MR. FERNANDEZ: I can admit that

8 So I am hopeful 157 will keep

9 because I am going to tell you there is

9 going on and keep going always.

10 a story behind it.

10 I always say 157 all the way to

11 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.

11 heaven. That was always my motto when I

12 MR. FERNANDEZ: I am going to

12 got with them. 13 I went with them through various

13 admit that. I am proud of being 14 whatever I was, doing my job welL.

14 protests and things like. Chanting that 15 then. I am still chanting that now.

15 I came back to New York from

16 Powell, Massachusett. I got introduced

16 That is what I got to say.

17 to Local 157. 18 I have been with these guys for 19 eight years now and I never had no

17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much

18 for your testimony. 19 MacDonald Barnett.

20 problem with them.

20 MACDONALD BARNET, called as a witness,

21 I always walked in the halL. It

21 having been duly sworn, testified as

22 was always a love thing and everyhing

22 follows:

23 else.

23 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening,

24 When times were bad they told me

24 MacDonald. How are you tonight?

25 what to do as far as myself to keep my

25 Are you a member of much the

1 Hearing 1 355

2 family busy and keep my family -- feed 2 3 my family and stuff like that and it 3 4 came from the heart from them and it 4

5 always worked for me. 5

6 I have been surviving with Local 6

7 157 for eight years now. I have never 7 8 had no problem. 8 9 Walking in the hall, when I ever 9

10 went in the hall early in the morning, 10 11 never found nobody there. You know what 11 12 I mean. It was always a business thing. 12 13 Always Kennedy, Kennedy knows me, right? 13

14 Always call Kennedy. I need help. I am 14 15 messed up. I need some guidance or 15

16 something. He is there for me. 16

17 You understand? 17

18 George, everybody here. Everybody 18

19 up there as far as the local, they 19

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Hearing local?

MR. BARNET: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: Offcer?

MR. BARNET: No. I have been in the local for 22 years. I was -- went away but I heard

what was going on. I don't understand it because they always came to my job, Georgie, Freddie, Lawrence, Danny, they always there.

I could call Freddie, Georgie any time of the night, dinner or anytime, tell them I have a problem on the job, they was there. So I am hearing, they phoned, wasn't getting in touch with them. I was always getting in touch with them.

20 always treat me like family, you 20

They always asked about my family. How is they doing?

22 I grew up here without actually my 22

destroying the whole union by removing

21 understand. 21

23 father. I grew up without my father. 23

24 This is my family. You understand? 24

25 To see how they get just ripped 25

It is like they are just them. I mean there wasn't no warning,

there wasn't no nothing. I just don't 90

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